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Stevrd Labs/experiments: Improving Hormones And Health Through Diet, Lifestyle, Supplements

Discussion in 'Blood Work, Labs' started by stevrd, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    The thing with milk is that I do like it and would like to be able to enjoy it occasionally especially in things like mashed potatoes. I’ll certainly never go back to it being my main source of calories again.
    I thought I read on celiac dot com awhile back that they are moving away from endoscopy in symptomatic adults and diagnosing more based on antibodies in blood work. I think having antibodies, symptoms and one or more of the associated genes is reasonable for diagnosis. It’s good that you tolerate wheat though since it’s so difficult to completely avoid! I had read that it is normal to have antibodies to food you eat often too. I think that’s why I dismissed my test results. I’m learning to trust in my experience more and basically perceive, think and act. I’m sure Peat would be proud even if he personally might do things a bit differently than me.
    ETA: Apparently wheat pasta has the highest gluten content of any wheat product. It was always my favorite of course.
     
  2. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I had a blood allergy test show I was allergic to wheat and dairy, but my health has only improved by consuming those foods at appropriate times according to my appetite.

    I noticeably feel worse eating only rice, potatoes, meat, and fruit. There’s something about the variety of wheat and dairy that makes me feel much better. I will crave some white bread with eggs, or some sweet, sweet fruity pebbles cereal with milk, and usually listening to that craving pays dividends. No matter how creative I can get with rice and potatoes, there’s something about the wheat plant itself and dairy that does my body good in appropriate amounts.

    I take allergies with a grain of salt as well, as the degree I’m allergic to things varies so much based on my health. When I am very unhealthy, dogs will wreck me, but when I am healthy, dogs have no noticeable effect on my allergies. I think by consuming various foods that bring me nourishment and well being, my body stops being very inflamed and defensive, and so I don’t react so strongly to foreign agents.

    I recall reading a Matt Stone article in which he stated that a man with a truly high metabolism will eat anything and everything to no noticeable negative effect. I’m not sure how true that is, but I do know that when I eat whatever I want using my knowledge learned from past experiences and paying strict attention to my cravings and physiological states, I feel much, much better. This usually frees all food groups except for consuming unrefined foods.
     
  3. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I’m glad you’re doing well @Runenight201. It seems like Matt Stone is limiting his diet these days to help control his asthma. I definitely don’t think everyone needs to avoid wheat to be healthy. I also believe humans can survive on a wide variety of foods but it’s highly individual what foods we personally thrive on.
     
  4. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    @Runenight201 and @Blossom Thank you for your honesty. @Runenight201 there is a possibility that both dairy and wheat have an effect on opiate-like chemicals called exorphins that exhibit addictive-like properties in the brain. This could be why we are so drawn to these foods and why they are so hard to stop. I am not saying that because of exorphins they are inherently bad, but it may be a good idea to read up on these exorphins to see if it isn't skewing your thought processes on the matter. Like you, I feel noticeably worse on a diet of just meat, potatoes, and fruit, so for me I feel that wheat is necessary as well.

    IMO I feel significantly better getting the bulk of my calories from solid foods. Both temperature and pulse increase this way and I feel all the general high metabolism feelings. High intake of liquids does the opposite, especially from milk. Interestingly water doesn't really have this effect. And I've noticed that drinking water when thirsty (as opposed to reaching for milk or OJ) only improves how I feel throughout the day. I'm currently taking Peat's recommendation for 2 Q milk and 1Q OJ and dividing it by 4. I'm drinking 2 cups of milk and 1 cup of fresh squeezed OJ per day and feeling a lot better. Also white tongue is improving, which I think directly relates to the amount of milk fat I'm eating, though butter does not have this effect.
     
  5. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    Yes I’ve looked into the exorphin opiate idea and have considered it.

    There are certainly times when my body does not want dairy or wheat even in the slightest, so I’m not sure if I’m addicted to these foods.

    Solid foods for sure though. I can skyrocket my temps with salty meat and potatoes, to the point where I start sweating at room temp. I must balance this with fruit juice/soda, or else I will feel very uncomfortable.
     
  6. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    What do you guys think about the perfect health diet by Paul Jaminet? I've had the privilege of meeting this man in person several times and some of his fans at a health retreat. People who follow him seem to be achieving a higher level of health. The dietary principles align a lot with what we are talking about here. Mostly plant and animal foods, minimal dairy and wheat. When I discussed the diet with him in person he mentioned the easiest way to think about his diet is to think about the type of dinner you would have if you go to a gourmet restaurant: i.e. steak and potatoes with cooked greens and carrots, seafood with vegetables, etc.... There is a lot of variety in the diet, yet at the same time it is low in pufa and pretty much devoid of bread.
     
  7. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I did it prior to Peat and it was a big improvement over low carb paleo for sure. I had some big mental hurdles to overcome about carbs in general so Peat helped me embrace more carbs and sugars again. I guess I would fit in well enough with the PHD crowd these days although I think I eat more fruits and less veggies but they don’t strike me as judgmental. It seems like a pretty good approach compared to most out there.
     
  8. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Yeah, I've been thinking about going back to it myself, but being a little less restrictive this time. I did it for a little bit but found myself always cheating eating bread. I guess if bread doesn't cause any harm it's fine in moderation. What I like most about the PHD approach is that it gets us back to nutrition and lifestyle, and away from supplements. A lot of people take Peat out of context with the over-reliance on supplements, but let's not completely leave Dr. Peat off the hook, he does promote thyroid supplements liberally as well as pregnenolone use.

    This old article by Paul Jaminet about why we don't need to supplement calcium is interesting:
    Why You Shouldn’t Supplement Calcium - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

    He talks about how magnesium, vitamin D and K are, if anything more important, and we should be able to get all the calcium and other vitamins from food. Pretty soon I may wean myself off of all supplements and see how that goes. I'll still probably use pregnenolone and cypro during times of stress but for the most part supplements have never really improved my health, and if anything it deters me away from focusing on what truly matters.
     
  9. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I think I remember Paul thinking we could get enough calcium from greens and bone broth and for some reason @700 mg comes to mind as the amount that was considered enough when I was reading his material. It’s been a while so I could be wrong. Right now I probably get 600-800 mg from eggshells. I always think I should take more but usually never get around to it. I’m kind of torn on the calcium recommendation. I’m leaning toward adequate D, magnesium, K and some calcium to keep PTH low normal and not a specific amount of calcium.
    I feel good and I’ve come off nearly everything over the last 4 plus months so it seems to be working for me this way. I prefer healing with diet as much as possible and using meds and supplements as a short term measure when there’s no other choice. I’m grateful to be able to do this right now because I’ve seemed to need lots of supplements and meds in the past. They definitely have their place depending on how sick someone is but they are tricky to get right! Peat is a Godsend for helping a lot of really sick folks but it’s easy to get carried away with the supplements and such if you’re not careful.
     
  10. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Good points. Yes, it's easy to focus our energy on supplements instead of food, because they're so enticing. I can speak for a lot of people on here, the reviews we read about Haidut's products and other supplements makes it seem like if we just find the right supplement or combination of supplements, drugs, and powders we will be healed. Unfortunately as many have pointed out on this forum, this has not gone over very well at all for most. If anything most supplements make people feel worse. I've found thyroid, cypro, and pregnenolone help when under stress, but I would much rather get to a place where i don't need to rely on anything and use nutritious food, rest/sleep, sun, and positive social interactions to obtain health and happiness. For me, supplements/drugs are hopefully means to an end. By no means am I anti-medication or anti-supplement. They have their place, but I believe there has to be a better way.

    I agree, Peat is an awesome person, I've learned a ton reading him. But he is not infallible. He has faults just like everybody else. If you consider yourself an open-minded person, check out some of this thread:
    Tyw. Said Something That Makes Alot Of Sense!

    Following Ray's work improved my health. But I found Matt Stone's work from reading Ray Peat and once I started researching him it resonated with me more and applying more intuitive eating and eating to appetite my health significantly improved more that Ray's diet ever could for me. My philosophy is to take the good, what resonates with you and your body and throw out the rest.
     
  11. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Thanks for the link to that thread. I always enjoyed Tyw's posts. I think I missed a lot from 2017 because I was on hiatus living in a camper in the woods. It's interesting that I lost about 30 pounds that year without trying. I was not taking any supplements besides a little thyroid and the only Peat rule I stuck with was low pufa because of my living situation. I figured it was mostly due to the being 3 years into pufa depletion but I think minimal supplements and living close to nature might have contributed as well.

    I think you have to be somewhat open minded to be on this forum for years!

    I'll always be grateful to Peat for many things but the big ones are helping me learn to manage my pituitary tumor, helping me resolve a large breast lump without surgery or medical intervention and mainly for teaching me to think for myself.

    If you go full PHD please stick around to share how it goes for you!
     
  12. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Thank you. I've been following Peat for years as well. I just checked your profile, 2013! Wow. I was actually one of the original 100 members of the FB group before this forum was started. Weren't you on that group as well? I think if all anybody takes away from Peat is low pufa than that could easily fix 80% of issues for people. I've spoken to Paul Jaminet, Chris Masterjohn, Mark Sisson, etc, in person and nearly every one of them learned about PUFA avoidance from Peat. So Peat popularized it. Chris Masterjohn has now expanded upon what Peat wrote about and has written amazing articles about the dangers of high PUFA, with even more data. So without Peat, none of this would have happened. I think we would intuitively think PUFA is bad, but we wouldn't have such a large amount of data to pull from to say "here is the cold, hard evidence."

    I will be sticking around for good on this forum. There is no other forum like this on the net. There is so much honesty on here, even people who only agree with some of Peat's findings and argue against a lot of it. Getting together and talking is how we all learn and get healthier. Lets find out what works and what doesn't.
     
  13. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Oh good, I'm glad you're staying! You've been around the Peat community a long time and that's a very valuable perspective to have on the forum. This a very special place.

    I found out about Peat through 180 degree health/Matt Stone who I found out about through a female paleo blogger trying to figure out my female issues. I ended up consulting with BiochemNordic who told me about the forum.

    My life is completely different now and through all the ups and downs I've always been able to figure things out mainly through the discussions here. Just yesterday I realized that I haven't felt this good since my early 30's and in some ways I feel even better than I did then. It took awhile and I've made my share of mistakes but that's life and part of what happens when you don't give up.
     
  14. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Update: Get ready, because this is the update of updates!!!

    I cut out all dairy for about 2 weeks and did not notice a single thing different. No changes or improvements. But I did miss it dearly, so I added it back in, this time full fat dairy, whole milk and cheese. Whole milk and full fat dairy makes me feel better, and more full. I am averaging about 1 quart of whole milk per day. I am very active so this is not fattening for me, since I need the calories.

    My wife and I have totally changed our diets. We do all the cooking together and she is on board with this change, which is great. We are following a modified perfect health diet now with plate portions 1/3 meat, 1/3 green vegetables, and 1/3 starch (potatoes, tubers, etc). We are eating 4oz of liver per week and one dedicated seafood night where we eat one of the following: shrimp, clams, oysters, white fish. We are eating a lot of homemade mushroom soup now as well. We add onions, garlic, and salt to nearly everything we cook. Fats are grassfed butter and coconut oil. We eat fruit throughout the day as snacks and fresh squeezed OJ every day, about 2 cups a day. We eat a liberal amount of 73% cacao dark chocolate daily, about 1 oz per day.

    This diet is actually much more interesting and fun that what I was eating before, which was mostly periods of either a standard American diet that is low in PUFA or a pretty strict Peat diet. The diet I am eating now makes me feel full, cravings are gone, and brain fog is diminished. So far I feel 100% better eating this way. I also feel zero restriction on this diet. There are so many choices.

    Here are the foods we are eating:

    Meats: Red meat, lean chicken, lean turkey, liver
    Seafood: Oysters, Shrimp, white fish, clams, mussels
    Vegetables: Bok Choy, Spinach, Kale, basil, broccoli, arugala, brussel sprouts, fresh tomatoes, onions, garlic, shallots
    Starch: Potato, Sweet Potato, yam, carrots, parsnips, rice, tuscan pane bread (no fat)
    Fruit: honey dew, oranges, mango, pineapple, banana
    Dairy: Whole milk and cheese
    Mushroom: Soup eaten weekly with onions, garlic, and anything else we feel like throwing in.

    I have several goals with this diet:
    (1) To completely nourish myself so that supplements are not necessary
    (2) Get off most supplements
    (3) Eat a diverse array of foods so as to fill in any possible nutritional void and also prevent potential toxicity of certain nutrients.

    I've been tracking foods on cronometer and am hitting all nutrients >100%, except for vitamin E, of which I am supplementing with a small amount of. I believe this supplement to be essential, at least for a period of time until one's tissues are depleted in linoleic acid.

    Whenever I have had comprehensive labs done, everything is in the normal range except copper. I have typically always had low copper and ceruloplasmin. Years ago my doctor ruled out Wilson's disease, and I don't display any of the signs or symptoms of this disease. But by being mildly copper deficient for years, I have been attempting to improve copper status by eating copper rich foods ever since. Interestingly, copper-rich foods are all foods Peat generally recommends, and in my opinion, if we seek out copper rich foods, we are going to be getting a lot of nutrition by default, because these foods are packed with nutrients. Think liver, dark chocolate, mushrooms, potatoes. And on top of that, intuitively it just makes sense to choose starch sources like potatoes and root vegetables (which are loaded with copper and other minerals) over nutrient-void bread or pasta.

    All of these changes have definitely improved my sense of well-being. I'm happy to say that I've ditched thyroid medication about 2 weeks ago. This is after being on it for years, because I thought I needed it. I felt cold and off for a few days, but was fine after that. All I am taking for supplements now is weekly vitamin E, D3, K2, and daily 5g of glycine/creatine. That's it. I do drink two whey protein shakes per day to meet my protein requirements, but I consider that food, not a supplement.

    One thing I've been learning is that body temperature is much more than just thyroid function, and it oftentimes has a lot more to do with food texture/solid state/temperature, sodium intake, and overall physical activity. Being warm feels healthy, but one doesn't necessarily need to take thyroid to get there. A huge benefit to dropping thyroid is that my dandruff has gone away completely. This is something I have been really struggling with an thyroid medications seems to be the culprit.

    But wait, there's more... I have also been implementing regular cardio. Yes, evil cardio. And I believe this to be the main reason why my erections have been improving lately. I have been coming to the realization that sexual health is much more than just hormones, it's also circulation. I think in the past ten years, with "low t" marketing and more studies showing the essentiality of testosterone for erections, people have gotten off track in thinking that testosterone is what's mostly responsible for erections. Even though I once believed this, now I think this idea couldn't be further from the truth. Sedentarism is a big culprit for poor circulation and for the past four years, since I started my job which is primarily desk work, I have noticed a decline in libido and erections.

    If you want to know more about how testosterone is not likely a main cause of ED, read this.
    Relationship Between Testosterone and Erectile Dysfunction

    Here is one pretty telling quote from the authors:
    "Hypogonadism is the most common cause for endocrinopathy leading to ED, although the endocrine disorders themselves are some of the rarest of all causes of ED. Most men experience a lowering of their serum testosterone levels with age, but these levels usually are not low enough to induce ED."

    Looking back, I can't believe it took me this long to realize this. My body was giving me hints here and there, like when I went hiking for a week. Yes, the sun and fresh air, lack of EMF were all beneficial, but I have been noticing that after long walks, and sporadic exercise my sex drive is always better. After exercsise my sleep improves and I no longer have cold hands and feet.

    I think Peat is doing a big disservice to the community by demonizing exercise. Yes, excess exercise is not good, but lack of exercise is even worse. Both strength training and LISS training have their place, and what I'm guilty of is lack of LISS training, which actually reverses some of the negative aspects of strength training, namely it improves vasoreactivity. Good vasoreactivity is needed for good circulation and erections.

    All in all, I hope that this streak of improved health continues and will keep everyone updated.
     
  15. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I think the majority of people who get truly healthy here don’t follow all of peat’s principles, because they eventually find out that it’s not the way to go.

    I have been incorporating aerobic exercise and strength training too much of my benefit. We are animals after all, and it’d be silly to say to a dog that his jogs and sprints while playing are bad for his health. We are designed to move and we run long distances very, very efficiently. So long as the running is done in a stress free manner at LISS, then it honestly feels amazing and freeing.

    Zero restrictions, I also see that common theme in people who get truly healthy.

    I myself have been eating moderate amounts of nuts, yogurt, avocados, and even peanut butter to my subjective improved feelings of well-being :)

    Plenty of natural vitamin E, who knows, maybe it’s protecting me from all those nasty PUFAS =P
     
  16. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Yes, zero restrictions is overall good. However, I still do think that there's compelling evidence that tissue build up of PUFA is detrimental in the long-run. This however, takes many years to build up. And interestingly, very active people are much more likely to burn PUFA as energy right away than store it. A common misconception is that PUFA is damaging when it's burned. Actually, burning PUFA for energy is a good thing because it doesn't get incorporated into cells long enough to become damaging to surrounding cells, proteins, enzymes and DNA. So actually, Peat should be telling people to exercise in order to "detox" PUFA faster.

    I had a good discussion with Chris Masterjohn about this, and this is his general stance on the matter as well. One thing he says is that even though high PUFA foods do contain lots of vitamin E, high tissue build up of linoleic acid actually depletes tissues of vitamin E over the long haul, and can make somebody deficient in vitamin E. So consuming more than say 10g of PUFA per day for years is not really a good strategy long-term because vitamin E will eventually not be in a high enough quantity to protect tissues from PUFA, but also because various oxidative stressors like car exhaust, job stress, even the oxidative stress of aging can lead to lipid peroxidation.
     
  17. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I’ll go with the I’m burning it all instead of storing it theory lol as I’m seeing my body fat decrease eating these foods as opposed to increasing.
     
  18. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Cool @Runenight201 . Thanks for your honesty and great replies to my posts. What I like about this forum is that even though most people don't end up following all of Peat's ideas we're all still here because despite the fact that he hasn't gotten everything right, he still invokes some of the most interesting discussions about nutrition on the net.

    For example, if it wasn't for Peat, I wouldn't have started researching endotoxin and lipopolysaccharides. After researching lipopolysacharides (LPS), I learned that increased LPS from starch is not as Peat says it is. LPS increases in the bloodstream are not likely to be from LPS found in food. And LPS increases from lots of foods, not just starch. Eating polyphenol-rich foods completely eliminates this inflammatory response. Furthermore, long-chain saturated fats markedly increase LPS levels, however this is mediated by increased chylomycron production for transport, and thus is not an inflammatory response.

    Sources:
    Hyperlipid: Fats and absorbing endotoxin
    Steven Hamley: Is Postprandial LPS From Fats a Cause for Concern?
     
  19. managing

    managing Member

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    Neither of your sources cover the bolded part. Can you explain/contextualize?

    Also, my understanding is that Peat is not against cardio exercise. He just thinks it should be much less intense. As I understand it, he advocates walking long distances. There is a long way between this and marathon running, but I've seen good discussions on here about finding your limit that does not unreasonably increase stress hormones.
     
  20. OP
    stevrd

    stevrd Member

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    Re-read the Steven Hamley link. Here is the quote "These studies note that the increase of LPS is unlikely to be due to LPS found in food"

    To clarify my understanding. It's a misconception that LPS is found in food. But throughout the forum I have seen this written before. It's digestion that creates the LPS, and various food sources in various combinations are responsible, not just starch.

    Peat cites the volek et al research showing starch consumption increases serum LPS. But this is indistinguishable from other foods. There is nothing inherently special about starch. The studies discussed in those links show that a bolus of glucose and saturated fat increases LPS as well. Peat has been confronted about this research before and has discounted it, saying something along the lines of it was probably cream with carageenan or gums. Don't quote me on this, because I would have to dig for the interview, but it was basically a speculation and inability to consider another view that doesn't jive with his.

    Peat is pretty clearly against cardio. He warns against "breathless exercise." He has stated many times that he thinks the Maffetone method is good, where you keep heart rate under something like 140 BPM. It's an equation based on age. So how I interpret this is that he thinks the only form of exercise that is good is where one doesn't get out of breath. While I used to agree with this, I now feel that the available research shows that this is verifiably false.

    I only agree with his theory to the extent that most training should be under the lactate threshold, but there are certain circumstances where the lactate threshold should be exceeded. Otherwise no adaptation will take place, and you will not improve VO2 max or stimulate new muscle growth. Peat contradicts himself when he says he thinks having large muscles is protective while also believing that one should train in such a way that he never exceeds lactate threshold. And he shows his ignorance of strength training programming when he says that he thinks a healthy way to strengthen and build muscle is to "pick up a couple light dumbbells and move them very fast." This is not a good strategy for strength training and will not result in positive adaptations.
     
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