Transitioning From Male To Female

[ivy]

I think relying on PCOS as specific term is problematic, because like men with MPB, it reflects young people of both sexes with the same hormonal problem which Ray has talked many times about how hypothyroidism drives PCOS-like symptoms in both sexes. Sanke et al. (2016) The low-thyroid dynamic creates an estrogen dominance (because progesterone becomes deficient) and the estrogen stimulates production by adrenal hormones, and since the adrenals aren't good at producing progesterone, they produce lots of DHEA, and downstream it leans to the trifecta of symptoms: alopecia, acne and hirsutism. Not everyone has each symptom to the same degree, but in both sexes ''PCOS'' or ''MPB'', is indicated by the same hormonal profile. Low T3, elevated DHEA and DHEAs, elevated prolactin etc. By what I'm reading you definitely have the ''PCOS'' symptoms, don't be offended, because I don't believe in PCOS as a medical term.

I'm sure you've read Ray's 1997 book from PMS to Menopause , but there is great stuff on the topic in there.

Thanks. I thought it was clear that I don't rely on anything I was told by dermatologists, otherwise I would still be on Spiro. But if I recall correctly, DHEA and DHEAs were never tested. I'm very cautious about supplements because I have IBS, but progesterone might be worth a try, especially since Roddy/Haidut's last talk.


A radical change of climate might have been necessary, in my case. I wonder if it wouldn't help the OP.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks. I thought it was clear that I don't rely on anything I was told by dermatologists, otherwise I would still be on Spiro. But if I recall correctly, DHEA and DHEAs were never tested. I'm very cautious about supplements because I have IBS, but progesterone might be worth a try, especially since Roddy/Haidut's last talk.


A radical change of climate might have been necessary, in my case. I wonder if it wouldn't help the OP.

I just posted something, see the post right before your latest comment.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks. I thought it was clear that I don't rely on anything I was told by dermatologists, otherwise I would still be on Spiro. But if I recall correctly, DHEA and DHEAs were never tested. I'm very cautious about supplements because I have IBS, but progesterone might be worth a try, especially since Roddy/Haidut's last talk.


A radical change of climate might have been necessary, in my case. I wonder if it wouldn't help the OP.

I know you haven't asked for my opinion, but yeah absolutely Progesterone could help lol. It's probably the single most important thing you should take. If I was you I'd lather it on my scalp. I suspect as a woman you have much greater affinity for it and it could regrow your hair. It is nature's most powerful anti-estrogen compound. Moreover, it is absorbed transdermally. Since you have IBS, don't take supplements orally. Just use them on your skin. Buy some of Ray's Progest-E, and maybe apply some coconut oil on your skin, and add a few drops of progesterone to it, and massage into the skin well. Preferably after a shower when your skin is pliable.

Spiro is made from Progesterone. Progesterone has all the benefits of spironolactone without any of the side effects.

And a change of climate (for a sunny place) will raise protective hormones and progesterone specifically, in of itself (but if you're in Portugal, it's not the worst place in the world)

 

[ivy]

I know you haven't asked for my opinion, but yeah absolutely Progesterone could help lol. It's probably the single most important thing you should take. If I was you I'd lather it on my scalp. I suspect as a woman you have much greater affinity for it and it could regrow your hair. It is nature's most powerful anti-estrogen compound. Moreover, it is absorbed transdermally. Since you have IBS, don't take supplements orally. Just use them on your skin. Buy some of Ray's Progest-E, and maybe apply some coconut oil on your skin, and add a few drops of progesterone to it, and massage into the skin well. Preferably after a shower when your skin is pliable.

Spiro is made from Progesterone. Progesterone has all the benefits of spironolactone without any of the side effects.

And a change of climate (for a sunny place) will raise protective hormones and progesterone specifically, in of itself (but if you're in Portugal, it's not the worst place in the world)

Thanks for the input. I'll give Progest-E a go.

Porto can be worse than London, just so you know. If it wasn't so affordable and near the sea, I would've gone elsewhere.

 

[mrchibbs]

Thanks for the input. I'll give Progest-E a go.

Porto can be worse than London, just so you know. If it wasn't so affordable and near the sea, I would've gone elsewhere.

I hope it goes well for you. It's ironic, because most people who don't live in Portugal would think it is a great place to live, climate-wise.
The grass always seems greener elsewhere I guess.

 

[ivy]

I hope it goes well for you. It's ironic, because most people who don't live in Portugal would think it is a great place to live, climate-wise.
The grass always seems greener elsewhere I guess.

It's definitely one of the best places when it comes to affordability, safety and food.
Granted, the lower half of the country is milder on the mood and bones.

 

[mrchibbs]

It's definitely one of the best places when it comes to affordability, safety and food.
Granted, the lower half of the country is milder on the mood and bones.

You should move to a nice place in the south of the country then. I was in Morocco in 2016 visiting a friend, and I was struck by the beauty of the coastal region in the countryside.
Portugal is pretty close so it should be similar.

If you don't mind, do keep me posted, I'd love to hear about the effects of progesterone in your case. (I'm really interested in PCOS/MPB symptoms like alopecia, acne, hirsutism)

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Thank you for bringing sensible comments to this discussion which, for the most part, has fallen into dangerous moral reproach and self-assured ignorance.

You were the first and only one to state that trans and homosexual are not the same. There are plenty of healthy homosexuals who've surpassed cultural, religious and societal taboos and have a life worth living. They love themselves and wouldn't want to change. Going against their unintended, spontaneous attraction would be psychologically hurtful and a waste of sexual energy. Attraction and revulsion can't be decided upon. If it weren't for AIDS, we might still have a huge number of beautiful, glowing older gay men defying the notion of gay as estrogenic, serotonergic, bickering, etc.

Trans people, however, seem to have a conflicted relationship with their bodies alongside the aspiration of presenting as the other sex. It's a joint process, not merely a desire to cross-dress or an indefinite loathing of their anatomy and physiology. And this is what we can't seem to grasp: the OP's motivation apart from the hardships of being a man. Detransitioners exist and should not be silenced, precisely because they're the ones whose underlying psychological issues did not improve on hormones and sex reassignment. There is no one size fits all. Gender affirming strategies need to go hand in hand with watchful waiting. And serious investigation is always required.

Well, had I been born later, I might have ended up thinking I should transition. I sucked as a young woman and still do in many respects. I had painful periods, a global lack of energy and water retention, and androgenic alopecia diagnosed at 16. This condition shaped my entire life and, FYI, the treatment for women is... Spironolactone, the testosterone blocker used in HRT. I convinced myself I was such a faulty female that it was just simpler to hide in baggy clothes and look a bit androgynous. My fear of under-performing in the eyes of men ran very deep. They probably sensed it, which meant that most of them stayed away, and my looks certainly didn't help. But I never hated my breasts or my genitals, I just hated the fact that while I was growing voluptuous I was also growing bald. I was a circumstantial lesbian. And the love of women, their benevolence, made me gradually more loving towards myself and a lot more daring in my femininity. Eventually, man could see me too. I had a hair transplant in 2013 which in many ways I regret, but it bought me time until I can exit the hair rat race and simply shave my head. I'm 39 and in better health than I was most of my youth. I'm leaner, graceful, I've had a number of meaningful relationships with women, some with men as well. I take no drugs or supplements and I twice refused to continue the feminizing Spironolactone due to sides - I was exhausted and menstruating every 15 days. I might not have as much hair in my head, but I've learned to love whatever androgens I might overproduce. If anyone's wondering, my blood tests were always in range and I don't have PCOS, but I'm positive I was hypothyroid and probably still am at winter.

So @kringlecold, I believe there's hope. Unless you truly dream of becoming a woman, don't take that shortcut. One way or another, everyone here is struggling and longing for a better bodily experience in life.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had a tough time and glad that you managed to improve things. Richad Grannon and some gay dude had a discussion on the narcissism of the gay community. Has to do with shame and being outside the tribe. Although having tons of anal sex with different partners probably is not helping their health either.

 

[Waynish]

I’m just giving a weak argument in return for a weak argument. If you wanna go there you could count almost any cosmetic surgery because of self esteem/hatred, which plenty of “sane” cisgendered people undergo. And FYI, not every trans person feels the need to undergo sexual reassignment surgery. But again that just speaks to your lack of familiarity with actual real life trans people

Just calling something a weak argument doesn't mean it is... You're clearly less sane as well and shouldn't be giving advice. And yes, if someone thought cosmetic surgery to their face was going to make them happy, then I would say many of the same things. Just lookup how many people get seriously depressed after breast implants or nose jobs...

 

[mangoes]

Just calling something a weak argument doesn't mean it is... You're clearly less sane as well and shouldn't be giving advice. And yes, if someone thought cosmetic surgery to their face was going to make them happy, then I would say many of the same things. Just lookup how many people get seriously depressed after breast implants or nose jobs...

I’ve not given any advice other than to cycle the hormones OP is already gonna take...

Gay people and trans people aren’t trying to turn everyone gay or trans. It’s about their own experience in them selves. But of course you know better than their own experience, right?

your original argument, because a minority of people detransition, every trans person is “delusional.” It is weak. Some people do detransition but these people usually only transitioned in the first place after some kind of trauma like sexual abuse. They were never transgender.

Post transition trans people still have it tough. Especially having to deal with bigots like yourself... there are a lot of variables to account for

I don’t know what makes you the epitome of sanity

 

[alephx]

Over 100 replies.
Excellent bait OP!

Haha, I don't think he is trolling. I do think at root it is a want for attention, like from the 2 friends going on this, they have this lopsided view of women being showered with attention all the time. Curiously enough, I know 1 of them for sure still is attracted to women.

Women have a hard time too. You guys are probably comparing men to pretty young women, who do have a lot of privileges, but that is like when women compare their lives to those of the most attractive men. Women deal with periods, fear of sexual violence, sexuality that is complex and unknown to them, they are heavily socialized and can't often use or even admit the power they have. Women get pregnant, have painful sex, there are so many difficulties women face. Where I live women do seem to have it slightly better, but I live in a weird country. Women carry most of the burden of parenting and maintaining the society with their labour, and are rarely even thanked for it.

Besides, what you complain about are first wolrd problems. No one forces you to adopt the pathological masculine role, so stop whining and live they you want.

This so so much, in their idealization of woman, they don't realize there is a different set of problems. It's not like women or men have it better, we just have it very different. A very attractive (and smart!) girlfriend told me of her experience as an engineer she simply was not taken seriously, she had to constantly prove herself . Hell at some point her college boyfriend told her quite seriously: "If engineering does not work out you can always try modelling." ****, people complain of only being measured by what you have or can do as a man, well attractive women are many times only judged by their looks.

I’ve not given any advice other than to cycle the hormones OP is already gonna take...

Gay people and trans people aren’t trying to turn everyone gay or trans. It’s about their own experience in them selves. But of course you know better than their own experience, right?

your original argument, because some people detransition, every trans person is “delusional.” It is weak. Some people do detransition but these people usually only transitioned in the first place after some kind of trauma like sexual abuse. They were never transgender.

Post transition trans people still have it tough. Especially having to deal with bigots like yourself... there are a lot of variables to account for

I don’t know what makes you the epitome of sanity

I think you are being too hard on him; besides, you'll never agree with him if both have different root values. I can already bet that you think there are many different flavors of sanity. I won´t argue against this since we have been living 120 years of culture based in relativism and individuality and all that (and it has its pros but also quite a few cons). But do consider the perspective he has, maybe not the clearest in his words or expression, but at the core he is concerned for the OP's well being. The silver lining of all this argumentation and questioning is at the bottom, we all have as end the OP's wellbeing, we just disagree on the means.

If find this topic quite interesting as in my view, transgenderism is a reflection of a certain current of philosophical, political even metaphysical thought taken to the most individual level. At the core of this currents are the belief in following ideas:
1) the world is essentially flawed broken (OP was born the wrong gender)
2) we need to push towards a crisis/change, an event which changes it (OP will chop/mutilate his genitals)
3) After the event, the world will be fixed, we will live in Utopia (OP will be happy ever after!)

The reality is that, we do not have the power to change the world in the fundamental ways this kind of thought demands. And I won't say much about how it plays out in politics but hell, if your mode of government requires a weakening of human instinct (for instance, family comes before society at large) then maybe the problem is not that people are broken, but rather that your government is broken.

In OP's case, as other posters have said, he will never change his DNA, he will never develop ovaries. OP should work with the hand he was dealt with and make peace with the world and with himself. Damn, this forum is about following our body's nature in order to achieve health, if one goes against it, it's an uphill, never-ending, and ultimately lost battle.

OP can you make peace with the world as it is now?

 

[Waynish]

Post transition trans people still have it tough. Especially having to deal with bigots like yourself...

 

[skycop00]

The original poster threw a grenade in the tent sat back and watched the explosion and chaos afterwards. He or she has literally not participated in the discussion. Not 1 comment. Let's move along to more important discussions.

 

[Waynish]

The original poster threw a grenade in the tent sat back and watched the explosion and chaos afterwards. He or she has literally not participated in the discussion. Not 1 comment. Let's move along to more important discussions.

Pretty common these days. They care much more about adherence to their views and pushing their views on others than they do discovering the truth.

 

[Salome]

okay but what is the peatiest HRT regimen for transsexuals? im on estradiol valerate, progesterone, and bicalutamide.

 

[alephx]

No such thing, but I venture you like to pretend. So yes, take loads of progesterone with your estradiol and pretend it is "peaty".

Now acid aside, at the core of what you call "peaty" and pretend to understand is the pretty scientific drive for understanding and using principles and causation to optimize our health. So it is not so much as peating has some ulterior purpose but rather it is just what follows from understanding the mechanics behind our health. We have these thing called our bodies and peating is about figuring what works best.

Raymond Peat has done us all a tremendous service in removing much of the mainstream delusions and misconceptions about health and nutrition. Something no one will deny, is the cells in everyone are express their DNA with the purpose of survival and reproduction best they can given their environment. So yeah, the cells in your body are going a certain way, expressing certain proteins, hormones and ultimately the characteristics we call a gender.

So going back to delusions, if you can pretend that your body does not naturally produce (and even more so when healthy) certain hormones, why not also pretend PUFA will do no harm? After all, that one is a more mainstream pretense.

 

[Sheik]

No such thing, but I venture you like to pretend. So yes, take loads of progesterone with your estradiol and pretend it is "peaty".

Now acid aside, at the core of what you call "peaty" and pretend to understand is the pretty scientific drive for understanding and using principles and causation to optimize our health. So it is not so much as peating has some ulterior purpose but rather it is just what follows from understanding the mechanics behind our health. We have these thing called our bodies and peating is about figuring what works best.

Raymond Peat has done us all a tremendous service in removing much of the mainstream delusions and misconceptions about health and nutrition. Something no one will deny, is the cells in everyone are express their DNA with the purpose of survival and reproduction best they can given their environment. So yeah, the cells in your body are going a certain way, expressing certain proteins, hormones and ultimately the characteristics we call a gender.

So going back to delusions, if you can pretend that your body does not naturally produce (and even more so when healthy) certain hormones, why not also pretend PUFA will do no harm? After all, that one is a more mainstream pretense.

Being this spiteful and intellectually dishonest certainly isn't "Peaty".

 

[Nebula]

okay but what is the peatiest HRT regimen for transsexuals? im on estradiol valerate, progesterone, and bicalutamide.

I’ve never heard Peat recommend HRT for cross sex or even normal hormones for your sex. Peat’s recommendation are to achieve a functioning endocrine system through optimizing thyroid and cellular energy. It’s also tempting for me to use TRT as a man to shortcut my way to a specific androgenic hormone profile with isolated hormones other than thyroid, but that reductionist micromanagement doesn’t seem very wise to me. Give the cells optimal energy and resources and let the organism express itself the way it decides to is how I see it now.

This 21st century attempt to micromanage the endocrine system to fit with fashions and trends of an unhealthy society seems misguided to me in both bodybuilding and transgenderism.

 

[haricu]

okay but what is the peatiest HRT regimen for transsexuals? im on estradiol valerate, progesterone, and bicalutamide.

hi i am trans as well. i take pueraria mirifica (very phytoestrogenic herb) and white peony root (anti-androgen, pro-progesterone). i don't feel comfortable taking actual estrogen. so far i have got results in breast growth, wider hips, softer skin, hair growth and overall my mood has improved in 1 month

 

[golder]

hi i am trans as well. i take pueraria mirifica (very phytoestrogenic herb) and white peony root (anti-androgen, pro-progesterone). i don't feel comfortable taking actual estrogen. so far i have got results in breast growth, wider hips, softer skin, hair growth and overall my mood has improved in 1 month

Why not take progesterone itself?

 

[Stramonium]

Take DHT and see if it changes your mind