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Lifestyle Factors That Promote Male Vs Female Health - Comfort Vs Discomfort

Discussion in 'Male Issues' started by Collden, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Collden

    Collden Member

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    Premise #1 Chronic stress is the underlying cause of most disease and ill health
    Premise #2 Most chronic stress is due to personality/psychology, the fundamental problem is lack of inner security, usually due to a lack of secure attachment during childhood

    I recently came to believe that loving kindness (metta) meditation, the aim of which is to gain the ability to self-generate feelings of love, would be the best way to for a person to gain inner security, and thus remove the fundamental source of chronic stress and optimise health.

    However, when I look at the long term practitioners of loving kindness meditation, there was a very striking contrast between the sexes. While all the female coaches for this type of meditation that I could find online videos of appeared very healthy and feminine-looking, the male practitioners all either looked or sounded completely castrated. Example Noah Levine, has the look of a biker (from his "troubled" past), but the voice and overall demeanour of someone whose balls shrivelled up.

    This made me think about the different circumstances required for males and females to thrive, particularly with respect to their sexual health. I believe that for women, much of what Ray Peat writes about how to optimise health is probably largely on point, i.e. relaxation and reducing the stress and difficulty of life as much as possible. However for males I'm starting to think that too little stress and too much effort on increasing relaxation, comfort and security is actually detrimental to male health, and is a major driver of male anxiety and depression.

    What males need to thrive both mentally and physically is rather strife, hardship, challenge, competition and above all discomfort. The way for men to reduce their anxiety and depression is not to seek to reduce to a minimum the stress in their lives, rather it is to regularly expose themselves to discomfort and challenge to become tougher and more stress-resiliant.

    I think this may be why in western society we are seeing this massive trend towards women becoming more and more feminine and attractive, whereas the men are becoming increasingly feminized, it is simply because we in modern society we have largely eliminated all discomforts and hardships that used to be a part of everyday life. It is not due to oestrogen's in the water supply, it is due to emasculating/feminizing effect of excessive comfort and security.

    This is why if you were to go to any part of the world where life is still tough, such as most parts of the middle east that still struggle daily with war and famine, you could pick a man at random and chances are he'd be far more masculine and healthy than 90% of the men living in modern western society.

    Thoughts? I first became aware of Ray Peats work more than 7 years ago and largely due to his and Matt Stones influence, have strived to lead a life as free of stress and discomfort as possible since then, but while I was able to heal from severe hypothyroidism and anorexia due to this, I'm starting to wonder if the soft cushy problem-free life full of meditation, sleep and little exercise has been detrimental for overall.
     
  2. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Guru, isn't it the opposite? That feminine more and more becoming women towards trend massive this seeing are we society western in?

    I don't think it stems from a lack of hardship. It's more about how families are organized now.
    The coziness might be explained by growing up without eventually conflicting with a father around. charliezord starts to feel threatened and uncomfortable whenever one of his male cubs grows up, and so they feel compelled to settle as a non-Diokine or move and find his own pride (nice coincidence).
     
  3. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    Pleasure increases estrogen.
     
  4. opethfeldt

    opethfeldt Member

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    Stress makes men more masculine. I don't think it makes them healthier. Most stressed men I know are arrogant, overly aggressive hotheads who are very unpleasant to be around. But, they're usually very dominant and masculine. I think men and women both benefit from living lower stress lives in terms of overall health. If you wanna become like a warrior, yeah, you're gonna need some discomfort to achieve that.
     
  5. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Stress lowers Thyroid and Testosterone so I don't see how a stressful life can be healthy for a man or woman.
     
  6. Suikerbuik

    Suikerbuik Member

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    I can't believe that either. More likely is that we are too sedentary, too bussy with our heads (don't underestimate this) and lack creativity/skills.
     
  7. Ideonaut

    Ideonaut Member

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    there's such a thing as eu-stress.
     
  8. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Testosterone is not related to aggression, depending on the context, in this case, it's the opposite.

    Things like low testosterone and serotonin increase aggression. This is done in order to achieve higher social status, and consequently associated with low social status. The men you're thinking about are probably fat and bald.

    Chronic stress does not make warriors, the old adage of what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is nonsense, and also, usually the opposite. The idea was derived from the gradual desensitization of the stress response to a certain stressor. But life's stressors are too many to shut down completely, and will eventually 'kill' you.
     
  9. opethfeldt

    opethfeldt Member

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    Testosterone is most certainly related to aggression. I have no idea why I keep hearing that thrown around this site. I'm not suggesting androgens turn guys into the hotheads I described in my last post (the stress they're under, along with poor diet, probably upregulates estrogen and that's the cause of the overly aggressive behavior) but they do increase reactive aggression. Basically, men with high androgens take less crap from others. If androgens didn't increase aggression, there'd be no reasonable explanation for why high androgen men are consistently in prison for violent crimes more so than lower testosterone criminals. You can check out this study if you want to learn more about androgens and their effects on aggression: Androgen levels and components of aggressive behavior in men. - PubMed - NCBI. As you can see, both testosterone and DHT are associated with components of aggression and DHT specifically is negatively correlated to the scale restraint of aggression. Basically, men with high DHT are reactively aggressive and react much more strongly when they get to that point.
     
  10. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Well, the key word here is reactive. And it's not always that simple.

    There are other testosterone interactions with current social status, serotonin, and cortisol as well.

    Preliminary evidence that testosterone's association with aggression depends on self-construal - ScienceDirect

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.e...=The_testosterone_cortisol_ratio_A_hormon.pdf
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11031-011-9264-3
     
  11. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    Stress is bad for both sexes if it's too much.

    But...for sexual arousal, stress arouses women, and it actually hurts men's arousal. The Excitation Transfer Effect was discovered by Dr. Zillmann and is a real thing. It is a way for a man to get a woman aroused but the other side of it is, that a man who is intimidated and scared is not aroused at all, quite the opposite.

    And testosterone IMHO makes men more alpha and aggressive. More sexually driven. For men, competition with other men is more keen and more important (as is winning) with higher testosterone levels, and high levels correlate not just with age and health, but also "power" and "wealth."
     
  12. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Testosterone correlates with a lot of things, and it's difficult to solely attribute it to any one trait, based on its interactions with other hormones and neurotransmitters, both as a precursor and a descendant.

    It tends to make things easier though, and that's required. Although it might be cynical to attest, good genes, or conditions of existence, tend to come in packages. So with every optimal parameter a person possesses, through genetic and social inheritance, there is a stronger likelihood of having another.

    With that in mind, testosterone levels have been linked with fertility, voice pitch, skin color, fat mass, competitiveness, social status, social aggression, dominance, psychopathy, prenatal testosterone, facial width to height, athleticism, abstraction, self sacrificially, selfishness, honesty, conscientiousness, agreeableness, sexual partners, mental illness, among many, many others. Now the debate becomes, what good would a wide range of testosterone levels in men perform in society. In this case, high testosterone doesn't become ideal on the group level across the board.
     
  13. ImprovingDaily

    ImprovingDaily Member

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    Stress increases adrenal hormones, as does Estrogen, if I'm not mistaken. So being stressed would increase Androgens via increased DHEA. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.
     
  14. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Adrenal androgenic hormones are quite insignificant comparatively. Even then, there would typically be a pregnenolone steal.
     
  15. OP
    Collden

    Collden Member

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    People talk about chronic stress, there is nothing that will generate more chronic stress in your life than being a hypersensitive fearful little doormat wuss. Doing things that challenge you and put you out of your comfort zone are very stressful acutely, but in the long run make you far more resilient to stress and less likely to fret about the little stuff. There's probably few things that will help you get better perspective on what is really worth worrying about in life than getting punched really hard in the face, taking a dip in a frozen over lake, or in general doing anything where there is a real risk of your body or ego being seriously harmed.

    Most things worth doing in life that help you grow as a person, become stronger or get things that you want will involve discomfort and battling negative emotions, so the more able you are to tolerate discomfort, the more your personal sense of power and what you are capable of doing will expand. Peat talks a lot about the beneficial effects of dopamine, and nothing is more pro-dopaminergic and liberating than having a strong sense of personal power and that you can do and achieve anything you set your mind to.
     
  16. Andman

    Andman Member

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  17. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    You make it sound as there is an innate tolerance in each and every one of us.

    Life hits us all hard, some are more resilient than others. The natural evolutionary physiology of depression and anxiety and the social hierarchy are made to protect us from self-inflicting doom.

    To put it more simply, there is nothing to be gained from facing your fears, or deliberately putting yourself in challenges, unless you can overcome the stress response for it to shut down. This will only apply in instances such as childhood abuse or misplaced negative feedback where some potential has been falsely understated.
     
  18. OP
    Collden

    Collden Member

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    There is, your genes wouldn't be here today if there wasnt. Everyone has the capacity to push beyond their current personal limits and gradually dismantle the stress response. Everyone can get stronger by doing something they are afraid of and realizing that they're still alive. Your not gonna get PTSD by participating in a boxing class. It might trigger some anxiety in the short term, but eventually it will have made you stronger.
     
  19. zewe

    zewe Member

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    Try reframing your question' Collden.

    Ask: "Why are so many males becoming more effeminate?"

    Elevated levels of estrogen in men cause them to take on more feminine characteristics.

    Enlarged breasts are one of the first and most noticeable side effects to appear in men when estrogen levels are elevated.This is known as gynecomastia and a few other names in the gym too. Other side effects include loss of muscle tone, a decrease in body hair, shrinking testes, depression, fatigue, lower energy levels, poor memory, low stress tolerance, an increase in fat around the mid-section (belly fat) and erectile dysfunction. Elevated estrogen levels really do cause men to look–and somewhat act–more like women and less like men.

    Now ask where would the estrogen come from that it would affect so many with different lifestyles and locations?

    Answer: From our polluted environment/planet!

    Although he doesn't get into men's issues, the following article by Ray Peat will tell you much:

    SNIP:

    The Dire Effects
    of Estrogen Pollution

    By Ray Peat, PhD.

    Pollution of the environment and food supply by estrogenic chemicals is getting increased attention. Early in the study of estrogens, it was noticed that soot, containing polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, was both estrogenic and carcinogenic. Since then, it has been found that phenolics and chlorinated hydrocarbons are significantly estrogenic, and that many estrogenic herbicides, pesticides, and industrial by-products persist in the environment, causing infertility, deformed reproductive organs, tumors, and other biological defects, including immunodeficiency.

    In the Columbia River, a recent study found that about 25 percent of the otters and muskrats were anatomically deformed. Estrogenic pollution kills birds, panthers, alligators, old men, young women, fish, seals, babies, and ecosystems. Some of these chemicals are sprayed on forests by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, where they enter lakes, underwater aquifers, rivers, and oceans. Private businesses spray them on farms and orchards, or put them into the air as smoke or vapors, or dump them directly into rivers. Homeowners put them on their lawns and gardens.

    Continue reading:

    The Dire Effects of Estrogen Pollution
     
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