To Vegetable Or Not To Vegetable. Do You Eat Vegetables?

[raypeatclips]

I've been thinking recently about vegetables. When I am talking about vegetables I mean bell peppers, onions, garlic. I have a minor dull ache in my lower right side which has been going on for months, coming and going. I believe this is bowel inflammation of some kind, and appears when my bowels are not doing well.

I need to test further but I am sure when I eat a meal a day with say rice, meat and heavy on those vegetables 1-2 bell peppers, 1-2 onions cooked in with it, my bowel movements increase, the pain goes away. The bowel movements are usually very soft though, lots of wiping, sometimes smelly. I am not sure if this is a positive change, despite the lack of the dull ache.

I have been wondering if the increase bowel movements are from increased serotonin from irritating my gut however, as I am not sure I feel 100% "right" when I am like this. Perhaps increased serotonin, perhaps endotoxin from fermenting vegetables?

I then came across a post from @Strongbad, which is almost identical to my situation. A dull bowel pain which was relieved by the same sort of meals, rice, veg, meat.
So I'm Currently In South East Asia

I am starting to think vegetables have a more solid place in my diet at the moment. I need to test whether 150-200g mushrooms per day would be enough to get the benefits of reducing bowel inflammation, while not getting the other perceived serotonin, endotoxin symptoms. Which I am not even 100% sure are there.

 

[tara]

I eat vegetables most days.
Often onions, sometimes capsicum and/or garlic.
Also leafy greens most days, and various others from time to time.
Usually well-cooked, except for carrots, cucumbers, sometimes tomatoes.

Don't think I can isolate all the pros and cons for me, but I think I feel better when I have some than when I go a couple of days without, and I think it helps with transit.

 

[DaveFoster]

You could just use cascara and coffee.

 

[tyler]

My experience has been the complete opposite- my BM's increased in frequency and bloating and stomach pain diminished with the elimination of vegetables and other hard to digest fibers. For what its worth, it took my system about a week to transition and normalize to a low-fiber diet. Cascara was helpful during that time.
From what i've read here, it seems that most think that the less wiping, the better. So it may be something to experiment with.

 

[raypeatclips]

@DaveFoster @tyler What are your sources for cascara?

 

[raypeatclips]

I eat vegetables most days.
Often onions, sometimes capsicum and/or garlic.
Also leafy greens most days, and various others from time to time.
Usually well-cooked, except for carrots, cucumbers, sometimes tomatoes.

Don't think I can isolate all the pros and cons for me, but I think I feel better when I have some than when I go a couple of days without, and I think it helps with transit.

It definitely helps with transit but I am not sure if it is through beneficial means, this is something im still thinking about. As tyler said the excess wiping was something I have heard was a negative which increases when I eat vegetables, so I took this to mean I shouldn't eat them.

 

[bohogirl]

I always have improved bowel movements with a salad of leafy greens, tomato, onion, chick pea, cucumber, snd olive oil lemon dressing.

Also a kefir smoothie (kefir, frozen fruit, banana) seems to help too.

 

[DaveFoster]

This one is aged 1 year, as Ray's recommendation; this makes it far less toxic:

Cascara Sagrada Bark Powder – Mountain Rose Herbs

 

[raypeatclips]

This one is aged 1 year, as Ray's recommendation; this makes it far less toxic:

Cascara Sagrada Bark Powder – Mountain Rose Herbs

Thanks, they don't seem to ship outside of the USA though. Gone for the health natura cascara which also says its been aged a year, will see how things go!

 

[Stryker]

i eat carrots and potatoes and thats about it...
i do enjoy onions , leeks , and garlic but mannn the gas they give me is a next level smell

 

[scarlettsmum]

I never quite liked vegetables so I follow my intuition. Recently I had strong craving for creamed spinach, needing magnesium perhaps? So I took out some chopped frozen spinach and cooked it with 12% cream, no gums, to death, about 30-45 minutes. It was delicious. If we have meat and potatoes I add a side of veggies I like, such as cooked peas, basically easy to digest veggies mostly. Recently I craved broccoli, which is new one for me. So I roasted it in the oven, delicious. My suggestion would be to be guided by what you feel you want/crave, be it veggies or no veggies. For me it changes daily.

 

[ballomar]

My view on vegetables is that it all depends on context.

Almost all European cooking has an onion sauce as its base. There seems to be good reasons for this in that onion is an iron chelator and is ideally paired with red meat. It also tastes good prepared this way. The reason it tastes good is probably an evolved response.

Garlic has a similar effect.

Tomato is also an iron chelator - and also is well paired with red meat. Think bolognese sauce. Or a steak with tomato and onion salad. There's a reason that these things go so well together.

Spinach might also have a chelation effect.

Root vegetables are good sources of carbs and minerals, think beetroot, cooked carrots and parsnips.

More bitter vegetables contain a certain level of toxins, but in moderation these kill of bacteria in the stomach. Vigorous cooking can help get rid of the bitter taste.

If you are getting constipated by eating vegetables, which I have a problem with, eat less and/or cook them more.

 

[tyler]

This one here- Cascara Sagrada (100 caps)

 

[schultz]

Some of the traditional French vegetable recipes are pretty good. A lot of them are cooked with added cheese and butter. Seems like a pretty good (and delicious) way to eat vegetables. I cooked this vegetable gratin type dish that was cooked a total of 75 minutes or something. As Ray has said regarding vegetables, you should "cook them to death" lol.

I grew a bunch of "heirloom" butternut squash (I like growing things I can store over the winter) and enjoy that, though I only prepare it once a week or so. High magnesium! Only downside is the high carotene, but I am young and healthy and can probably handle it.

 

[ballomar]

Some of the traditional French vegetable recipes are pretty good. A lot of them are cooked with added cheese and butter. Seems like a pretty good (and delicious) way to eat vegetables. I cooked this vegetable gratin type dish that was cooked a total of 75 minutes or something. As Ray has said regarding vegetables, you should "cook them to death" lol.

Seconded.

Look at stuff like tartiflette.

 

[lollipop]

My view on vegetables is that it all depends on context.

Almost all European cooking has an onion sauce as its base. There seems to be good reasons for this in that onion is an iron chelator and is ideally paired with red meat. It also tastes good prepared this way. The reason it tastes good is probably an evolved response.

Garlic has a similar effect.

Tomato is also an iron chelator - and also is well paired with red meat. Think bolognese sauce. Or a steak with tomato and onion salad. There's a reason that these things go so well together.

Spinach might also have a chelation effect.

Root vegetables are good sources of carbs and minerals, think beetroot, cooked carrots and parsnips.

More bitter vegetables contain a certain level of toxins, but in moderation these kill of bacteria in the stomach. Vigorous cooking can help get rid of the bitter taste.

If you are getting constipated by eating vegetables, which I have a problem with, eat less and/or cook them more.

Interesting info @ballomar. I eat veggies almost daily (rotated) and do much better. I do think it supports healthier gut diversity.

Veggies more in line with Peat like: potatoes, raw carrots, sautéed mushrooms, onions, zucchini, yellow squash, tomatoes, occasional asparagus, cilantro (for chelation of iron - thanks @natedawggh), raw turnip, rarely green cabbage carmelized, occasional greens,

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks, they don't seem to ship outside of the USA though. Gone for the health natura cascara which also says its been aged a year, will see how things go!

Good luck; be sure to stick to a consistent dosage (1/4 TSP for example), and use it as a preventative measure, rather than in response to IBS, similar to coffee.

I put the 1/4 TSP in a little dish with water and LOTS of sugar, heat, stir, and drink like a tea.

 

[800mRepeats]

I've never really liked veggies; they're OK, but not something I crave.
My mother doesn't eat them, except for potatoes. Still, she always made sure I had a vegetable (plus protein, starch, and milk) at dinner every night when I was growing up.

I ate a lot of vegetables (cooked and raw [salads]) during my paleo & LCHF days. It's nice not to *have* to deal with them except when I truly want to (which is almost never).

 

[lvysaur]

From what i've read here, it seems that most think that the less wiping, the better.

The best stools should be big and odorless. And yes, they should leave near-zero residue.

 

[Travis]

Yes. I while back I looked up the goitrogenic effect of some vegetables. The main two goitrogens are the thiocyanate ion and goitrin.

The thiocyanate ion, not to be confused with isothiocyanates, competitively inhibits iodine binding in the thyroid. This is reversible and can be obviated by extra iodine. Everyone has a measurable level of thiocyate ion in their blood, even people that don't eat it. Thiocyanate can be produced endogenously by cyanide (smokers have higher levels). Thiocyanate ions can ultimately come from crucifers, turnips, horseradish, cassava, mustard, ect...

The more powerful goitrogen is 'goitrin'. This is a molecule formed from certain glycosides. There are thousands of glycosides (molecules bound to glucose) in foods, and only one of them seems to release goitrin; and is called progoitrin, or 2-hydroxy-3-butenyl glucosinolate.

It turns out that this compound is high is genus Brassica; species Rapa. This includes rapeseed (see canola oil), bok choy, mustard greens and Russian kale.

Genus Brassica; species oleracea, is low in progoitrin. This includes brocolli, curly kale, lacinato kale, cabbage, cauliflower, ect.

So make sure your Kale is not Russian Kale! Russian Kale has a purple stem! Stay away from Brassica Rapa.

And if you eat thiocyanate-containing vegetables, make sure you get enough iodide through seaweed or sea-animals.