Taking Enzymes To Lyse Plaque, BP Rising, WBC, Urinating A Lot-Frustrated

[yerrag]

I assure you I am serious. You have an intractable blood pressure problem but you haven’t tried elimination diets. You dismissed my idea about replacing rice for awhile very out of hand. That’s fine. But if it were me, the first thing I’d be doing is elimination diets and testing foods for allergies and the capacity for causing me problems undetected.

Just a thought. It probably will lead nowhere, but why not try to eliminate foods that you’ve been eating and checking for potential to be allergenic and creating hypertension?

It's not that I know myself too well that I simply haven't been experiencing any allergies AFAIK and that may sound inconceivable to you, but is that my fault, or are you trying to fit my context into yours?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I try the easiest stuff first. Food is the easiest thing to try.

Anyhow, I am sorry if I am causing you agitation. I’ll stop.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Interesting. Wonder if the extract has a lot of steroid hormones - DHEA, progesterone etc - and vitamin C.

These substances, however, can't help with plaque and its safe lysing and the restoration of endothelial health.

Glandular supplements, like adrenal extract, are said to activate the corresponding gland in the human body when taken. People take adrenal extract for adrenal fatigue I believe.

So maybe it is a problem with your adrenal glands?

 

[LLight]

I'm making the mistake here of assuming people here would appreciate the significance of my observation about the increase in WBC and neutrophil count as well as activity, as a response to the use of proteolytic enzymes, especially with serrapeptidase.

There is an increased innate immune response - that's what it means. And this response, in my estimation, is due to bacteria being released into the bloodstream from biofilm being broken down as the lysing of plaque progresses.

An increase in neutrophil count is a sign of bacterial infection, and when no increase in temperature accompanies it, it is considered a low-level infection.

You can gauge the level of low-grade infection by how far above the optimal range the wbc count is, and by how high the neutrophil % of wbc is.

I can therefore relate the lysing action on plaque from the use of proteolytic enzymes to the release of bacteria into the bloodstream, as evidenced by wbc and neutrophil activity.

But I'm no expert here. This is a guess. But I now understand I can't expect a discussion, much less an analysis, on this observation because the CBC test is seen as a cheap test, and cheap tests probably get no respect here. Yes, I'm cheap and I try to make use of cheap lab tests instead of the expensive tests. That works for me, but I'm going over your head as it makes no sense at all to you.

Instead, discussion is naturally diverted to where I find, at least in my case, nothing new being discussed. Becoming an argument over the limits of this discussion rather on where I feel it could shed light on the implications of my observations, and on finding ways to address the problem I'm facing.

So, my n=1 is just something I can't get any meangingful input about, but just a rehash of the fundmentalist principles of metabolism and health.

Thanks for trying though. I know you mean well.

I mean, I'm framing the discussion as well as I could, and yet the frame is moving elsewhere. There is a clear-cut cause and effect relationship here observed, and yet it's as if no one saw it. It's just a blur, isn't it? Thanks for scanning through and missing the gist of what I'm saying.

Sorry if my answer is not aligned with your view (to be honest, I don't have by far your level of knowledge about this topic) about your disease, but I'd like to get back to dry fasting (everything looks like a nail when you only have a hammer) and my thoughts about your case, as it has shown to powerfully lower your blood pressure, and sorry if it's total garbage

During my research about dry fasting, I found that it is (in particular, dehydration and hyperosmotic stress) connected with a transcription factor called NFAT5 which is itself connected with the immune system and a lot of other things (including hypertension if I'm not mistaken, Role of NFAT5 in Inflammatory Disorders Associated with Osmotic Stress, "Conversely, blocking NFAT5 or VEGF-C signalling aggravates hypertension. Thus, NFAT5–VEGF-C signalling in skin macrophages is a major determinant of extracellular volume and hence blood pressure homeostasis under conditions of high salt intake", Emerging new role of NFAT5 in inducible nitric oxide synthase in response to hypoxia in mouse embryonic fibroblast cells. - PubMed - NCBI, "expression of iNOS induced by hypoxia is dependent on NFAT5").

NFAT5 is a protein that tends to amplify the immune system response (for example, Regulation of Inflammatory Functions of Macrophages and T Lymphocytes by NFAT5) but not only. It also seems to have a role to play with fighting directly infections by improving autophagy of intracellular pathogens (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15548627.2019.1596483). As it has a role in the immune system, some pathogens (Coxsackie virus in this case) seem to target it and reduce its production for their own benefits, i.e. being able to maintain a persistent infection I guess (Cleavage of osmosensitive transcriptional factor NFAT5 by Coxsackieviral protease 2A promotes viral replication, " Our initial results demonstrated that although the mRNA level of NFAT5 remained constant during CVB3 infection, NFAT5 protein level decreased because the protein was cleaved."). Dehydration could also help by making the immune system to produce LL-37 (Osmolality controls the expression of cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide in human macrophages, "Here we present the surprising finding that osmolality tightly controls the expression of cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide (CAMP) in human macrophages. CAMP expression is strongly upregulated under hyperosmotic conditions and downregulated under hypoosmotic conditions. We also provide evidence that this osmolality-mediated antimicrobial response is dependent on nuclear factor of activated T-cells 5 (NFAT5)"), which seems to be an antimicrobial LPS-binding molecule that seems to prevent biofilm formation.

So I'm wondering if you could have an infection with a pathogen that reduces NFAT5 and lowers the efficiency of your immune system (so your body has to produce a lot of white blood cells to counteract their inefficiency?). NFAT5 deficiency and induced "immune deficiency" is a thing : "In this article, we describe a patient with a diagnosis of AIE who presented with symptoms of autoimmunity. Immunologic evaluation demonstrated defects in innate and adaptive immunity, whereas genetic testing revealed de novo haploinsufficiency of NFAT5. We confirmed that the patient had significantly impaired induction of NFAT5 mRNA and protein in response to osmotic stress." (Immunodeficiency and Autoimmune Enterocolopathy Linked to NFAT5 Haploinsufficiency).

Moreover, I think you mentionned oxidative metabolism in one of your post. Cells that are dehydrated should produce NFAT5 and uptake osmolytes in order to cope with the osmotic stress (Cell hydration and mTOR-dependent signalling. - PubMed - NCBI, "Similar to hyperosmolarity, amino acid starvation leads to cell shrinkage, and cell shrinkage was suggested to mediate certain responses to amino acid starvation, including stimulation of the tonicity-sensitive element binding protein (TonEBP == NFAT5) and stimulation of osmolyte transport."). Also, if I have properly understood what I have read, osmolytes could increase/improve the structure of the intracellular water.

If you believe this article (http://www.medicinacomplementar.com.br/biblioteca/pdfs/Cancer/ca-0417.pdf), which seems to consider some of the things that Ray Peat considers himself (structure of the water, inflammation as a cause of cancer), water structure seems to be essential for the metabolism of cells. The author displays studies showing that cancer cells seem to have less structured water than normal cells and that it is the reason for their irregular metabolism. The solution he presents is: to flush the cancer cells of unstructured water (which could happen if they shrink), and to supplement it with osmolytes. That seems to me similar to what could happen in case of dehydration.

 

[Amazoniac]

We should not be treated with kid gloves. I understand what you're saying, really I do. And you're invoking the precautionary principle. But after 15 years, and after diligently avoiding anything dealing with infection, am I allowed to get an exemption?

But seriously, I've tried to work within the metabolic straitjacket, and what my data tells me, as I've recounted, thru my body (all that urine) and through my wbc and neutrophils test, is I need to go outside the box.

One has to be open.

The not-so-sterile inflammation. On Broda Barnes' book he commented that people who were born in a weaken'd state contracted infections and that better management (such as supplemental typhoid hormones) allowed them to survive. However! It seems that they wasn't completely eradicated, only kept in check, taking decades to manifest again as heart disease for example.

Sorry for that.

I was being aware of what the enzyme was doing. Otherwise, why would I be. monitoring thru CBC tests and being cognizant of excess urination? I was taking notes and also limiting the variables.

You was, but it went out of control. Since you're going pharma, you can search for 'pharmacokinetics' of the enzymes to know each are supposed to be metabolized.

- Serratiopeptidase: A systematic review of the existing evidence

If you mention our own proteolytic enzymes and what you have is plaque from an infection that was taken care of, why the debris isn't being cleared? If there's still an infection present elsewhere, have you considered if your body was responsible for this biofilm deposition? The enzyme excess could be butchering in a disordered way what it has been containing.

- Peptides, coherent adaptation, and some terminal diseases: The roles of thyroid, progesterone, calcium, salt--issues of energy and inflammation; towards an organismic paradigm for medicine (350/1474)

Look, this seems like something coming out of left field.

I suppose I should tell all my family to shift to bread, even though I'm the only one with hypertension. They all eat rice and I'm the lucky one?

I must disclose, in case I forgot to mention, that I had 15+ years of periodontal infection, a latent one, that went untreated. Does this raise more of a red flag here? Doesn't this have anything to do with plaque? And would you believe me if I tell you there is more to this than just a coincidence?

If you're dealing with a condition that makes an organ more vulnerable, it's worth being more mindful about all aspects that can compromise it further, and you mentioned having consumed whole rice for 20 years and were dealing with a particular problem that could have made you more susceptible than those around you. I don't know where you got the idea that I was suggesting you to ditch it, it's pretty non-allergenic.

--
How much lysine have you been taking?

 

[shepherdgirl]

I am not dismissing your theory that it is bacterial plaque, but highish RDW could indicate a mild anemia or blood loss.
Have you had an iron panel and hemoglobin taken before and/or after your enzyme treatment?

 

[yerrag]

Glandular supplements, like adrenal extract, are said to activate the corresponding gland in the human body when taken. People take adrenal extract for adrenal fatigue I believe.

So maybe it is a problem with your adrenal glands?

There is, as I test high for aldosterone. But there is also a problem with plaque.

If I tried to fix my adrenals, and get my adrenals working right, and my aldosterone to go lower to normal levels, what is the impact of it in terms of dissolving my plaque?

Or maybe there's nothing wrong with my adrenals, and my aldosterone being high is somehow related to the problems resulting from having plaque. Nothing in the literature says this, I admit. But what's wrong with addressing the plaque problem?

When I lyse plaque, I get high wbc and neutrophils. I pee a lot lot more. Also, my seborrheic dermatitis condition came back. My left knee arthritis is having a comeback. And even my left hip feels arthritic. My hair is thinning even more. If you were in my shoes, you think you would still look the other way and say " It's the adrenals?" Help me understand this.

Occam's Razor.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Well IIUC serrapeptase and proteolytic enzymes both can dissolve scar tissue. When scar tissue is dissolved I think it could initially result in pain and tenderness. Not saying that's what caused your pain but it's another possibility. It seems like the pains are in the regions of prior injuries (i.e. potential scarring) as opposed to random places.
So if you think it's related to plaque, what is your theory? Are you saying that maybe your arthritis and hair issues are bacterial? Why do you suppose your bp increased after lysing?

 

[yerrag]

Well IIUC serrapeptase and proteolytic enzymes both can dissolve scar tissue. When scar tissue is dissolved I think it could initially result in pain and tenderness. Not saying that's what caused your pain but it's another possibility. It seems like the pains are in the regions of prior injuries (i.e. potential scarring) as opposed to random places.
So if you think it's related to plaque, what is your theory? Are you saying that maybe your arthritis and hair issues are bacterial? Why do you suppose your bp increased after lysing?

It's related to plaque no question about it. Look at the signs - why would wbc and neutrophils shoot up? It's infection. Where would the infection come from? Why did it occur when I was taking the enzymes, even shooting up much more when taking serrapeptidase? I monitor my WBC and neutrophils - I see the changes. Where else would the infection come from? From the scar tissues? Where would the bacteria be coming from in such large quantities? The entire vasculature has so much surface area for biofilms to form with the plaque. Compare that to how much space bacteria and biofilm would be forming in scar tissues. It seems obvious to me. Don't you agree?

Here's a review article on it:

As far as arthritis and serborrheic dermatitis goes, the only time it abated was when I took low -dose doxycycline. This was right before I started on enzymes. So, right there and then I know there is a bacterial connection. During that time my wbc and neutrophils were lower as well.

After 2 months of ZymEssence, wbc and neutrophils went up. I wasn't urinating a lot yet. My arthritis and dermatitis was still holding up, meaning not showing up. So far so good. Still, there are signs - I was asking myself why they went up.

Then 1 switched to Serrapeptidase. A week later, wbc and neutrophils shot way up. I also had started to urinate a lot. Then arthritis wasn't just back on my left knee, but I was feeling it on my hips as well. And seborrheic dermatitis made a comeback.

And now you can understand why I'm developing a distaste for the idea to pursue diseases mainly from a metabolic standpoint. But when I talk wbc and neutrophils, I just feel I'm met with a yawn by the forum members who cannot accept anything else outside the metabolic theory of disease. We're not on the same wavelength.

My bp increased because there is a lot of inflammation from the immune system reacting to the bacteria - phagocytosis, respiratory burst, always further lowering NO as NO is not being made as resources are used for the respiratory burst needed for phagocytosis.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Thanks for the article. I will have to check it out. I guess what bothers me is that you only have high RDW and WBC and you are convinced it is plaque. I mean maybe there is an alternative explanation.
But I don't know where the high WBC could come from. Could it have been caused by an allergic reaction to the enzymes, or by inflammation from the irritation caused by dissolving scar tissue?
Supposing it were bacterial- what is serrapeptase supposed to do with that? Does it kill the bacteria? In that case maybe lots of LPS released in a dieoff, in which case WBC would eventually drop back down?

 

[yerrag]

I am not dismissing your theory that it is bacterial plaque, but highish RDW could indicate a mild anemia or blood loss.
Have you had an iron panel and hemoglobin taken before and/or after your enzyme treatment?

I actually have a much higher RBC, Hgb and Hct than what is considered optimal, so there's no anemia. As far as blood loss, I don't know but I have no reason to say I have that. But another use of RDW is its use also as a marker for plaque.

Have had the iron panel and I'm fine. My ferritin could stand to be lower, but I can understand now why it's high. The iron has to be kept in storage to keep it from being used by the bacteria in my system.

The not-so-sterile inflammation. On Broda Barnes' book he commented that people who were born in a weaken'd state contracted infections and that better management (such as supplemental typhoid hormones) allowed them to survive. However! It seems that they wasn't completely eradicated, only kept in check, taking decades to manifest again as heart disease for example.

Definitely. Thyroid is a main part of what enables us to produce energy needed to fight infection. At a certain point, there is a truce, or what may even be called balance. The infection is never gone, but kept at bay by our immune system. Yet we don't see that this is a continual drain of the body's energy resources, energy that can be used for the brain's development or the skin to glow, or for hair to be lush, or for penile endurance, after a surplus is determined when the energy is used for regenerating our internal organs. Eliminate or drastically reduce these bacteria draining our energy and we will be younger and live longer.

You was, but it went out of control. Since you're going pharma, you can search for 'pharmacokinetics' of the enzymes to know each are supposed to be metabolized.

It never went out of control. Enzymes aren't pharma either. It was doing what I wanted it to do - lysing plaque. I didn't tell it to kill bacteria, but if I did, I was setting the wrong expectations from it.

If you mention our own proteolytic enzymes and what you have is plaque from an infection that was taken care of, why the debris isn't being cleared? If there's still an infection present elsewhere, have you considered if your body was responsible for this biofilm deposition? The enzyme excess could be butchering in a disordered way what it has been containing.

Imagine the plaque that has accumulated in my entire vascular system - from the large carotid artery all the way to the watershed capillaries. If the debris had to get stuck somewhere, it had to get stuck somewhere where the passages are narrow - the capillaries. It would make it more difficult for blood to flow through, although the red blood cells would have to squeeze their way through. In the process, the rbc would become more elongated from the squeezing. This is why the RDW is used as a marker for plaque. My RDW subsequently did become higher, indicating the presence of debris.

I don't know what you mean by enzymes butchering in a disordered way, but you've been watching too many reruns of Game of Thrones.

If you're dealing with a condition that makes an organ more vulnerable, it's worth being more mindful about all aspects that can compromise it further, and you mentioned having consumed whole rice for 20 years and were dealing with a particular problem that could have made you more susceptible than those around you. I don't know where you got the idea that I was suggesting you to ditch it, it's pretty non-allergenic.

--
How much lysine have you been taking?

Yeah, rice is pretty non-allergenic to me, and for most people. People who are allergic to it have to look at themselves and check their energy status, as they must be allergic to more than just rice. Have the body produce more energy, and energy will make them impervious to all sorts of allergens.

Taking about 2 grams of lysine per day.

 

[yerrag]

Thanks for the article. I will have to check it out. I guess what bothers me is that you only have high RDW and WBC and you are convinced it is plaque. I mean maybe there is an alternative explanation.
But I don't know where the high WBC could come from. Could it have been caused by an allergic reaction to the enzymes, or by inflammation from the irritation caused by dissolving scar tissue?
Supposing it were bacterial- what is serrapeptase supposed to do with that? Does it kill the bacteria? In that case maybe lots of LPS released in a dieoff, in which case WBC would eventually drop back down?

So far I haven't heard of an alternative explanation. High RDW is a marker for plaque. Maybe in itself not strong enough. But when I account for the fact that I had 15+ years of chronic bacterial infection left unchecked because I wasn't aware of the periodontal infection I was having, it makes the case for plaque stronger. And when I took enzymes to lyse the supposed plaque, I began to see an immune system reaction through the increased WBC and neutrophils. And knowing what they do and what that means, there are not many things I can point to to account for that. In fact, there's only one - bacteria. Where could the bacteria be coming from? Then when you read that article, you can piece the puzzle together.

A lot of what we need to do is about getting the data, knowing how the body and its parts work, and then imagining WWTBD - what would the body do - which, unlike scheming people - are fairly predictable. For Sherlock Holmes, this would be considered a piece of cake. He would be a better doctor than a detective.

As for serrapeptase, it has a stronger lysing action than ZymEssence - I suppose. Or perhaps it was cleaning up the remaining matrix left over undone by ZymEssence - the final nail in the coffen, so to speak - in reverse. It may have broken down more biofilm and released more bacteria.

 

[LLight]

I continue my spam sorry

Tick and salt: an atypical case of neuroborreliosis (Ticks and salt: an atypical case of neuroborreliosis)
"It is well documented that central nervous system (CNS) infections may lead to syndrome of inappropriate anti-diuretic hormone secretion (SIADH), but diagnosing these can prove difficult in patients with atypical presentations. We present a case of SIADH and muscle weakness in a patient without typical signs of CNS infection who was tested and diagnosed with neuroborreliosis based largely on her likelihood of exposure."

And in bonus, for supporters of the germ theory of diseases:
A new model for chronic diseases (A new model for chronic diseases - ScienceDirect)
"In this speculative unifying model I set a new hypothesis for the etiology of the majority of chronic diseases. The main aim is to put order and observe our organism in a systemic way, connecting pathologies we now see as disconnected phenomena, with the conceptual frameworks of complex systems and network medicine.

Chronic diseases could be caused by a first unsolved acute infection. In case the pathogen cannot be completely eliminated, it becomes a persistent infectious. After the acute episode, some mild symptoms will occur and probably disappear; the chronic disease will remain latent over time. It will manifest even after years or decades, in the presence of another acute infection, a particular stress, trauma, or another event. The presence of the persistent infectious elicits changes in the immune and systemic regulation, and these processes degenerate over time. They will assume their rules and patterns, being independent from the initial stimulus. The key to understand the dynamics and individuality of chronic diseases is the immune system and its networks. The immune mechanisms that can lead to the persistent response are mainly the switch from the Th1 to the Th2 immunity and the molecular mimicry.

The first persistent infectious will also modify the susceptibility to other pathogens, facilitating new infections and new consequent persistent infectious."

 

[yerrag]

Sorry if my answer is not aligned with your view (to be honest, I don't have by far your level of knowledge about this topic) about your disease, but I'd like to get back to dry fasting (everything looks like a nail when you only have a hammer) and my thoughts about your case, as it has shown to powerfully lower your blood pressure, and sorry if it's total garbage

During my research about dry fasting, I found that it is (in particular, dehydration and hyperosmotic stress) connected with a transcription factor called NFAT5 which is itself connected with the immune system and a lot of other things (including hypertension if I'm not mistaken, Role of NFAT5 in Inflammatory Disorders Associated with Osmotic Stress, "Conversely, blocking NFAT5 or VEGF-C signalling aggravates hypertension. Thus, NFAT5–VEGF-C signalling in skin macrophages is a major determinant of extracellular volume and hence blood pressure homeostasis under conditions of high salt intake", Emerging new role of NFAT5 in inducible nitric oxide synthase in response to hypoxia in mouse embryonic fibroblast cells. - PubMed - NCBI, "expression of iNOS induced by hypoxia is dependent on NFAT5").

NFAT5 is a protein that tends to amplify the immune system response (for example, Regulation of Inflammatory Functions of Macrophages and T Lymphocytes by NFAT5) but not only. It also seems to have a role to play with fighting directly infections by improving autophagy of intracellular pathogens (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15548627.2019.1596483). As it has a role in the immune system, some pathogens (Coxsackie virus in this case) seem to target it and reduce its production for their own benefits, i.e. being able to maintain a persistent infection I guess (Cleavage of osmosensitive transcriptional factor NFAT5 by Coxsackieviral protease 2A promotes viral replication, " Our initial results demonstrated that although the mRNA level of NFAT5 remained constant during CVB3 infection, NFAT5 protein level decreased because the protein was cleaved."). Dehydration could also help by making the immune system to produce LL-37 (Osmolality controls the expression of cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide in human macrophages, "Here we present the surprising finding that osmolality tightly controls the expression of cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide (CAMP) in human macrophages. CAMP expression is strongly upregulated under hyperosmotic conditions and downregulated under hypoosmotic conditions. We also provide evidence that this osmolality-mediated antimicrobial response is dependent on nuclear factor of activated T-cells 5 (NFAT5)"), which seems to be an antimicrobial LPS-binding molecule that seems to prevent biofilm formation.

So I'm wondering if you could have an infection with a pathogen that reduces NFAT5 and lowers the efficiency of your immune system (so your body has to produce a lot of white blood cells to counteract their inefficiency?). NFAT5 deficiency and induced "immune deficiency" is a thing : "In this article, we describe a patient with a diagnosis of AIE who presented with symptoms of autoimmunity. Immunologic evaluation demonstrated defects in innate and adaptive immunity, whereas genetic testing revealed de novo haploinsufficiency of NFAT5. We confirmed that the patient had significantly impaired induction of NFAT5 mRNA and protein in response to osmotic stress." (Immunodeficiency and Autoimmune Enterocolopathy Linked to NFAT5 Haploinsufficiency).

Moreover, I think you mentionned oxidative metabolism in one of your post. Cells that are dehydrated should produce NFAT5 and uptake osmolytes in order to cope with the osmotic stress (Cell hydration and mTOR-dependent signalling. - PubMed - NCBI, "Similar to hyperosmolarity, amino acid starvation leads to cell shrinkage, and cell shrinkage was suggested to mediate certain responses to amino acid starvation, including stimulation of the tonicity-sensitive element binding protein (TonEBP == NFAT5) and stimulation of osmolyte transport."). Also, if I have properly understood what I have read, osmolytes could increase/improve the structure of the intracellular water.

If you believe this article (http://www.medicinacomplementar.com.br/biblioteca/pdfs/Cancer/ca-0417.pdf), which seems to consider some of the things that Ray Peat considers himself (structure of the water, inflammation as a cause of cancer), water structure seems to be essential for the metabolism of cells. The author displays studies showing that cancer cells seem to have less structured water than normal cells and that it is the reason for their irregular metabolism. The solution he presents is: to flush the cancer cells of unstructured water (which could happen if they shrink), and to supplement it with osmolytes. That seems to me similar to what could happen in case of dehydration.

I wanted to acknowledge reading your post and to thank you for it. I can't make a comment now because it's difficult for me to piece this together, given that there are many links to articles to be read. I'm also not quite up to reading them all because I'm still having difficulty having a good sleep, which I find disturbing because this came about from the fallout from taking enzymes and the immune reaction to it. I'll get back to you soon.

 

[Amazoniac]

Definitely. Thyroid is a main part of what enables us to produce energy needed to fight infection. At a certain point, there is a truce, or what may even be called balance. The infection is never gone, but kept at bay by our immune system. Yet we don't see that this is a continual drain of the body's energy resources, energy that can be used for the brain's development or the skin to glow, or for hair to be lush, or for penile endurance, after a surplus is determined when the energy is used for regenerating our internal organs. Eliminate or drastically reduce these bacteria draining our energy and we will be younger and live longer.

I was expecting regular blood donors to be much less susceptible to disease, but this doesn't seem to be the case, at least not to the extent that I imagined. Iron normalization will occur from stores that the body already had control over, not from critical compartments where it's causing most of the trouble. Decreasing the reserves and lowering inflammation through other means will help, but the infection is there nevertheless.

It never went out of control. Enzymes aren't pharma either. It was doing what I wanted it to do - lysing plaque. I didn't tell it to kill bacteria, but if I did, I was setting the wrong expectations from it.

Of course it went, blood markers elevated to the point of leaving you concerned, if it was a controlled action, the resolution would be smooth and barely noticeable.

An amount that's supraphysiological is definitely pharma, it's using substances as drugs, even more so if the enzyme in question is not present in foods for you to consider as multiples of it.

Imagine the plaque that has accumulated in my entire vascular system - from the large carotid artery all the way to the watershed capillaries. If the debris had to get stuck somewhere, it had to get stuck somewhere where the passages are narrow - the capillaries. It would make it more difficult for blood to flow through, although the red blood cells would have to squeeze their way through. In the process, the rbc would become more elongated from the squeezing. This is why the RDW is used as a marker for plaque. My RDW subsequently did become higher, indicating the presence of debris.

I don't know what you mean by enzymes butchering in a disordered way, but you've been watching too many reruns of Game of Thrones.

In my humble opinion it's worth being mindful about the 15+ years infection thing because you've been repeating it so much that it will eventually develop into a mantra. You might start judging yourself systemically infected and then thinking and acting™ narrowingly as such. Also, germs just want to eat and live, killing them is a selfish move on your part; we're all equal and one.

Have you read Raj's article?

The stuff is named serratiopeptidase, so it's more appropriate to use the 'carpenter' term, because an excess of it will be sawing whatever happens to be in its way, otherwise adverse events such as this wouldn't occur:
- Serratiopeptidase – A Cause for Spread of Infection

Since material on their metabolic fate is available, reading them before taking should be useful so that you know what constitutes an excess, adsroption, at what time it peaks, how long it stays in the body, tissue distribution, degradation, und elimination. This way you can adjust if its effects lack criterion: ideal dosage based on what is lost, grasp when it's supposed to start having an effect (urination, headache, palpitation, fever, etc) after taking, what can be compromised before it can have an impact elsewhere, what nutrients might need to be increased, how long is safe to take (depending in it, it could be oreferable to lower the daily dose and take it for a longer period), and so on.

On cleaning up the mess:
- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium

Cutting out rice might be in fact a bad idea. Let's say it's your major source of molybdenum, which is needed to use poison A properly (Bolduev, 2017), how are you supposed to regenerate tissues at times of increased requirements without it?

If you continue to leave us bitter messages, I'm going to ask your human carer to give you the Oxygenone Treatment.

 

[LLight]

I wanted to acknowledge reading your post and to thank you for it. I can't make a comment now because it's difficult for me to piece this together, given that there are many links to articles to be read. I'm also not quite up to reading them all because I'm still having difficulty having a good sleep, which I find disturbing because this came about from the fallout from taking enzymes and the immune reaction to it. I'll get back to you soon.

No problem, I'm sure you have other things more likely to consider first I'm totally aware that what I put is highly speculative!

 

[yerrag]

In my humble opinion it's worth being mindful about the 15+ years infection thing because you've been repeating it so much that it will eventually develop into a mantra. You might start judging yourself systemically infected and then thinking and acting™ narrowingly as such. Also, germs just want to eat and live, killing them is a selfish move on your part; we're all equal and one.

It's not a humble opinion, in my humble opinion Amazoniac. I present evidence thru a cause and effect argument, you denigrate that argument and trivialize it.

Have you read Raj's article?

The stuff is named serratiopeptidase, so it's more appropriate to use the 'carpenter' term, because an excess of it will be sawing whatever happens to be in its way, otherwise adverse events such as this wouldn't occur:
- Serratiopeptidase – A Cause for Spread of Infection

If only Raj can be more specific, he does not show what those blood tests are that he considers having results that are normal, something that you overlook. Perhaps you should consider it odd that given the case of abscess, he should consider it odd that wbc and neutrophils are normal. Perhaps the patient has a problem producing enough wbc, and that is the problem, not the serrapeptidase. Did you consider that?

If you continue to leave us bitter messages, I'm going to ask your human carer to give you the Oxygenone Treatment.

I am not bitter, I am just angry. Anger is amoral.

 

[observer1961]

yerrag,
My wife and I both struggle a bit with high blood pressure. The one thing the brings it down without fail is potassium supplementation. It brings both of us down a good 30 points systolic in 48 hours. I take enough potassium citrate (from pure bulk, though amazon) to get about 6 grams elemental potassium a day, my wife takes about 4. Since potassium citrate is about 38 percent potassium by weight, be sure to figure out the actual dose of potassium first by multiplying your grams of potassium citrate by .38. It dissolves in water well and does not taste terrible as it is the same potassium form as found in fruit. You do have to be a bit cautious with potassium, if you take too much it can cause you heart rhythm problems. Start with a few grams and work up a bit.
The RDA for potassium is 4.8 grams, so the amount we take is modest. You may need more to get to optimal blood pressure. I would suggest twice a day dosing.

 

[yerrag]

yerrag,
My wife and I both struggle a bit with high blood pressure. The one thing the brings it down without fail is potassium supplementation. It brings both of us down a good 30 points systolic in 48 hours. I take enough potassium citrate (from pure bulk, though amazon) to get about 6 grams elemental potassium a day, my wife takes about 4. Since potassium citrate is about 38 percent potassium by weight, be sure to figure out the actual dose of potassium first by multiplying your grams of potassium citrate by .38. It dissolves in water well and does not taste terrible as it is the same potassium form as found in fruit. You do have to be a bit cautious with potassium, if you take too much it can cause you heart rhythm problems. Start with a few grams and work up a bit.
The RDA for potassium is 4.8 grams, so the amount we take is modest. You may need more to get to optimal blood pressure. I would suggest twice a day dosing.

Thanks. I definitely have to load up on potassium after a lot has been lost from my excessive urination recently. But I'm not seeing that as the solution, as I haven't seen that helping in my case. The posts here should explain why I have a different issue that is causing high blood pressure.

I'm glad potassium has worked for you and your wife. A simple solution is very satisfying to have.

 

[Amazoniac]

It's not a humble opinion, in my humble opinion Amazoniac. I present evidence thru a cause and effect argument, you denigrate that argument and trivialize it.

I've never denied your infection, my point is that adopting the mindset of an infected person through reinforcement makes you prone to take more uncalculated measures. It starts to be all about lysing to the detriment of the rest. In my arrongant opinion, before enzyme medication, the first questioning should be how these are metabolized and affect normal tissues, which you didn't investigate.

If only Raj can be more specific, he does not show what those blood tests are that he considers having results that are normal, something that you overlook.

¿
It's puzzling how you shun such a relevant article.

Perhaps you should consider it odd that given the case of abscess, he should consider it odd that wbc and neutrophils are normal. Perhaps the patient has a problem producing enough wbc, and that is the problem, not the serrapeptidase. Did you consider that?

Well, here's one case that had them elevated:
- Administration of serratiopeptidase lead to increase in spread of space infection

Sometimes chronic infections are best dealt with slowly and interventions of this kind just as an adjuvant therapy to your immunity (which is supposed to do most of the work). An example is the C. pneumoniae protocol that requires low doses of doxycycline over a longer period. Perhaps something similar applies to these enzymes so that they don't become overwhelming.