Different Forms Of Arterial Plaque

[yerrag]

Given what I've come to know about the nature of arterial plaque from the various posts and threads on the topic, I've become interested in finding out if anyone has been able to classify plaque. My online searches fail to give me answers, and I wonder if anyone here has better sources or better search skills that would provide some answers.

I'm given to think that there are different kinds of arterial plaques, and that knowing what type of plaque one's arteries. arterioles, and arterial capillaries one has would be very helpful. Matching a treatment specific to the type of plaque would be more effective than having a generalized approach to removing plaque.

If a plaque is mere calcification (if that counts as a plaque, which I argue it would), for example, it would perhaps merely involve magnesium and vitamin b6, and vitamin K2, as well as enabling oxidative metabolism to provide endogenous CO2 production which would transport calcium out of cells; among other things.

If the plaque involves the accumulation of cholesteryl esters from PUFA, then it would need the use of cyclodextrins to help macrophages to eat away the cholesteryl esters, as Ray Peat has mentioned in a recent 2019 newsletter.

If the plaque is the accumulation in the arterial walls of the remnants of a continuing skirmish between the protagonists - antigens and antibodies - from chronic bacterial infection and white blood cells responding to eliminate it, and calcium biofilms being formed by bacteria for protection, then the treatment would involve both biofilm busters and proteolytic enzymes to eat away the plaque.

But this is just my take on arterial plaques, and I'd like to get a more professional take on it. Some articles on this that's a step up from a simple Google search (that usually ends up with a poor take on it) would be very much appreciated.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Peat wrote a newsletter I think in 2009 about taking potassium iodide for removing plaques.

STUDIES ON THE PREVENTION OF CHOLESTEROL ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN RABBITS : I. THE EFFECTS OF WHOLE THYROID AND OF POTASSIUM IODIDE

People have taken many grams a day without ill effect.

Dr. Peat writes:
The only publications I have seen that
presented clear evidence of the disappearance of
arteriosclerosis involved treatment with iodides.
In the retina, blood vessels can be seen to return
to their normal appearance following a course of
iodide treatment. Besides its possible direct
effects on the mucins, iodide might help to
eliminate calciwn from the walls of blood vessels,
since calcium iodide is very soluble.

 

[yerrag]

Dr. Peat wrote a newsletter I think in 2009 about taking potassium iodide for removing plaques.

STUDIES ON THE PREVENTION OF CHOLESTEROL ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN RABBITS : I. THE EFFECTS OF WHOLE THYROID AND OF POTASSIUM IODIDE

People have taken many grams a day without ill effect.

Dr. Peat writes:
The only publications I have seen that
presented clear evidence of the disappearance of
arteriosclerosis involved treatment with iodides.
In the retina, blood vessels can be seen to return
to their normal appearance following a course of
iodide treatment. Besides its possible direct
effects on the mucins, iodide might help to
eliminate calciwn from the walls of blood vessels,
since calcium iodide is very soluble.

Thanks ecstatichamster! He has talked of cyclodextrins for the same purpose and I wonder which I should go with. I'm hesitant on using iodide as I believe Ray has discouraged the use of iodine, but that was more in the context of a conversation on thyroid, where he prefers the use of thyroid over the use of iodine.

 

[Elderflower j58]

I'm thinking of using Cyclodextrin for my heart disease.
This segment of a peat article has flummoxed my thinking.
Is he saying its bad or am Inot understanding .

of repeatability and confirmation in science.

In the 1970s, a new method for suspending or dissolving oily chemicals in water was being explored. A cyclic carbohydrate, cyclodextrin, makes it possible to wet substances that are insoluble in water, such as progesterone, even if the substance remains in a solid crystalline form. Several companies were promoting the use of these for the administration of hydrophobic drugs.

In 1976, D.W. Frank reported that the cyclodextrins produced nephrosis in rats. In 1978, a study by Perrin, et al., reported its toxicity to the kidneys. Twenty years later, Horsky and Pitha at NIH reported that the cyclodextrins can synergize with carcinogens, and in 1982 a group in Japan reported that cyclodextrins can increase the production of kidney cancers by another carcinogen (Hiasa, et al.). The intrinsic carcinogenicity of a more water soluble cyclodextrin, that was considered "more toxicologically benign," was found to cause pathological changes in lungs, liver, and kidney, and to increase the formation of tumors in the pancreas and intestines of rats (Gould and Scott, 2005).

In 1974, D. W. Frank and others at Upjohn had begun testing the effects of progesterone and medroxyprogesterone acetate in beagle dogs, using an "aqueous suspension." Their 1979 publication describing that four year study didn't mention the way in which the "aqueous solution" had been made, and didn't mention cyclodextrins at all. Frank's published observation during the beagle study that cyclodextrins are toxic to the kidneys suggests that someone at Upjohn had noticed a problem with the "wetting agent" that was already in use in the beagle study.

@yerrag

 

[yerrag]

I'm thinking of using Cyclodextrin for my heart disease.
This segment of a peat article has flummoxed my thinking.
Is he saying its bad or am Inot understanding .

It's saying that it's bad. But in a recent Ray Peat newsletter (I think Jan 2019) Ray talked of how cyclodextrins could be used to remove cholesteryl esters. There were no specifics and I had to do some research on it. There's another thread on it also. There are many forms of it and a form of it can be used for topical application. Off-hand I don't remember the form, but I should be receiving it soon and that's when I'll try to mix it with vitamin E (TocoVit) and water and use it. I tried to look for a cyclodextrin-based product for my need but am not finding any. So I had to resort to making myself a guinea pig.

I think there are a couple of requests, mine included, for Haidut for a cyclodextrin-based product but we haven't heard back from him. When it comes, it comes. But I can't wait.

 

[Beefcake]

Wouldn’t the best approach be preventative measure as in first reducing the source of ones plaque. If it’s from PUFA then reduce PUFA. Other than that safe supplements that would be worth giving a shot would be the flush niacin, vitamin E, aspirin and vitamin K both K1 and K2. Then I would think garlic and something like ginger could have good benefits. Ginger has been shown to reduce body serotonin and wouldn’t suprise me if serotonin also was related to aterial damage in one way or another. Vitamin D also very strong anti serotonin in the gut. Combined with good K2 intake and calcium I think it would help clean up excess calcium in the blood. Also think a daily shot of whisky is beneficial for ones circulatory. Read it has more antioxidants than red wine and a smal shot of whisky each day has been shown to extend life both more than heavy drinkers and those who dont drink at all. So a little alcohol daily is actually better than completely avoiding. My guess is that stronger cleaner booze is better than beer for example.

 

[Elderflower j58]

Thanks @yerrag

Wish I was as knowledgable as you ,
Plus I just love reading about your experiments
On yourself

 

[yerrag]

Wouldn’t the best approach be preventative measure as in first reducing the source of ones plaque. If it’s from PUFA then reduce PUFA. Other than that safe supplements that would be worth giving a shot would be the flush niacin, vitamin E, aspirin and vitamin K both K1 and K2. Then I would think garlic and something like ginger could have good benefits. Ginger has been shown to reduce body serotonin and wouldn’t suprise me if serotonin also was related to aterial damage in one way or another. Vitamin D also very strong anti serotonin in the gut. Combined with good K2 intake and calcium I think it would help clean up excess calcium in the blood.

True. I'm doing the preventative part already, so what's left is dealing with the plaque that's already set in. I've tried all those except for ginger and it's not that they don't work, they probably work but the rate they work is glacial and I'll be dead by the time I see signifiant benefit from them.

So I'm employing all thes abovementioned items (except garlic and ginger) plus some more of the items I mentioned in the original post.

 

[yerrag]

Thanks @yerrag

Wish I was as knowledgable as you ,
Plus I just love reading about your experiments
On yourself

Oh, thanks! You know, when you stop hearing from me, there's a good bad reason -

 

[ShotTrue]

Wouldn’t the best approach be preventative measure as in first reducing the source of ones plaque. If it’s from PUFA then reduce PUFA. Other than that safe supplements that would be worth giving a shot would be the flush niacin, vitamin E, aspirin and vitamin K both K1 and K2. Then I would think garlic and something like ginger could have good benefits. Ginger has been shown to reduce body serotonin and wouldn’t suprise me if serotonin also was related to aterial damage in one way or another. Vitamin D also very strong anti serotonin in the gut. Combined with good K2 intake and calcium I think it would help clean up excess calcium in the blood. Also think a daily shot of whisky is beneficial for ones circulatory. Read it has more antioxidants than red wine and a smal shot of whisky each day has been shown to extend life both more than heavy drinkers and those who dont drink at all. So a little alcohol daily is actually better than completely avoiding. My guess is that stronger cleaner booze is better than beer for example.

+1 and nice about the booze

 

[yerrag]

Also think a daily shot of whisky is beneficial for ones circulatory. Read it has more antioxidants than red wine and a smal shot of whisky each day has been shown to extend life both more than heavy drinkers and those who dont drink at all. So a little alcohol daily is actually better than completely avoiding. My guess is that stronger cleaner booze is better than beer for example.

I get lower blood pressure from drinking gin and tonic, with juniper berries. I though the quinine in tonic water, and quinone in the berries, and in the gin (from being made from juniper berries) does it, despite the alcohol. Now I'm thinking it could just be the alcohol lol

 

[Beefcake]

I get lower blood pressure from drinking gin and tonic, with juniper berries. I though the quinine in tonic water, and quinone in the berries, and in the gin (from being made from juniper berries) does it, despite the alcohol. Now I'm thinking it could just be the alcohol lol

Obviously the alcohols systemic effects is what lowers stress and blood preassure. I think 4-6 cl per day of any hard liqour is beneficial may it be gin, vodka, whisky or anything else. But for me I can almost feel specifically a burning and warming feeling throughout my body with whisky. Would not suprise me if some compound had some extra flushing effect almost like niacin in whisky. As long as you don’t start getting drunk on alcohol I think it could be very healthy.

 

[Elie]

Oh, thanks! You know, when you stop hearing from me, there's a good bad reason -

What about high doses of vitamin c, lysine and moderate proline? Linus Pauling used this approach successfully. I have had high success rate with patients using high dose of these micronutriebts along with application of regenerative enegy concepts.

 

[yerrag]

What about high doses of vitamin c, lysine and moderate proline? Linus Pauling used this approach successfully. I have had high success rate with patients using high dose of these micronutriebts along with application of regenerative enegy concepts.

That's a good add. Thanks. Can you expand on regenerative energy?

 

[Elie]

That's a good add. Thanks. Can you expand on regenerative energy?

The usual stuff that we learn from Ray and on the forum. Diet low in PUFA, thyroid, progesterone support, glucose metabolism and so on. Bs, mag, potassium, Mn, Cu, selenium, iodine , Q10, D, K2, calcium Check out Healthy Heart Plus if you'd like.
My understanding is that plaque sloughs off like a scab does as the skin heals from injury (a cut).

I heard good things about Nattokinase in tough cases as well.

 

[StephanF]

Please read my posts on the importance of the Zeta Potential to cardiovascular health. Also, bacteria from the mouth (gum disease, root canal infections, etc.) can easily enter the blood stream and form biofilms on the arterial walls and also on heart valves - that happened to a friend of mine that couldn't afford regular dental cleaning. His heart valve was partially eaten by those biofilms. So it can start like this: you have a tooth ache, you visit the dentist, he performs a root canal, the tooth is dead now. Microbes move into the micron-size tubular holes in the dentin, and enter the blood stream. Then, due to a weak Zeta Potential, the microbes settle in the arterial walls and cause inflammation of the blood vessels. This causes restriction of blood flow, the body compensates by raising the blood pressure. And so on...

 

[CLASH]

@yerrag
-Vit C
-Lysine
-Proline
*as mentioned above this is the pauling protocol. The lysine is taken to bind to Lipoprotein A as this lipid has multiple binding sites for lysine this inhibiting its deposition into the vascular wall. Vit C is the co-factor for collagen synsthesis to repair the vasculature. Proline is requires for the vascular repair.

-Collagen peptides
*the collagen peptides can aid, in combination with vit C in endothelial repair

-Bromelain
-Serrapeptase
* these enzymes are fibrin degraders, they can help to block fibrin deposition and perhaps degrade bacterial biofilms made from fibrin. I have now supplemented with serrapeptase. The bromelain I get from eating pineapple.

-Vit E
*using vit E combined with avoiding PUFA, increasing intake of coconut oil and long chain saturated fatty acids from tallow/ cocoa butter can help to block the oxidative damage and protect from endotoxin

-Vit D3
-Magnesium
-Vit k2-mk4/ mk7
-vit A
*these four function in calcium regulation and can help with soft tissue calcification.

-Eating enough carbs to keep thyroid high to produce CO2 and to push cholesterol into steroid production. The CO2 is what makes vit k work. Pushing cholesterol into steroid production can inhibit it from binding to the vascular wall and increase the protective hormones.

-enough protein is important for liver detox.

-fibers from mainly fruits and vegetables may help with a bowel endotoxin situation as well assuming theres not a major dysbiosis.

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag
-Vit C
-Lysine
-Proline
*as mentioned above this is the pauling protocol. The lysine is taken to bind to Lipoprotein A as this lipid has multiple binding sites for lysine this inhibiting its deposition into the vascular wall. Vit C is the co-factor for collagen synsthesis to repair the vasculature. Proline is requires for the vascular repair.

-Collagen peptides
*the collagen peptides can aid, in combination with vit C in endothelial repair

-Bromelain
-Serrapeptase
* these enzymes are fibrin degraders, they can help to block fibrin deposition and perhaps degrade bacterial biofilms made from fibrin. I have now supplemented with serrapeptase. The bromelain I get from eating pineapple.

-Vit E
*using vit E combined with avoiding PUFA, increasing intake of coconut oil and long chain saturated fatty acids from tallow/ cocoa butter can help to block the oxidative damage and protect from endotoxin

-Vit D3
-Magnesium
-Vit k2-mk4/ mk7
-vit A
*these four function in calcium regulation and can help with soft tissue calcification.

-Eating enough carbs to keep thyroid high to produce CO2 and to push cholesterol into steroid production. The CO2 is what makes vit k work. Pushing cholesterol into steroid production can inhibit it from binding to the vascular wall and increase the protective hormones.

-enough protein is important for liver detox.

-fibers from mainly fruits and vegetables may help with a bowel endotoxin situation as well assuming theres not a major dysbiosis.

I'll add the lysine and proline and I'm good to go.

Will see how this goes. I'm going to be monitoring by RDW to see the direct effect of my this protocol in reducing plaque:

RDW- An Overlooked Yet Low-Cost Biomarker For Cardiovascular Risk

 

[CLASH]

@yerrag
Sounds good to me. I havent used lysine personally, just wanted to explain its purpose in the pauling therapy protocol. Btw I started to get wierd reactions from bromelain and found some articles showing it can be an allergen, as well as increase gut permeability, so I’d be careful with that one.

 

[Broken man]

@yerrag
Sounds good to me. I havent used lysine personally, just wanted to explain its purpose in the pauling therapy protocol. Btw I started to get wierd reactions from bromelain and found some articles showing it can be an allergen, as well as increase gut permeability, so I’d be careful with that one.

Please can you show me the article about bromelain being allergen?