Different Forms Of Arterial Plaque

[johnwester130]

Given what I've come to know about the nature of arterial plaque from the various posts and threads on the topic, I've become interested in finding out if anyone has been able to classify plaque. My online searches fail to give me answers, and I wonder if anyone here has better sources or better search skills that would provide some answers.

I'm given to think that there are different kinds of arterial plaques, and that knowing what type of plaque one's arteries. arterioles, and arterial capillaries one has would be very helpful. Matching a treatment specific to the type of plaque would be more effective than having a generalized approach to removing plaque.

If a plaque is mere calcification (if that counts as a plaque, which I argue it would), for example, it would perhaps merely involve magnesium and vitamin b6, and vitamin K2, as well as enabling oxidative metabolism to provide endogenous CO2 production which would transport calcium out of cells; among other things.

If the plaque involves the accumulation of cholesteryl esters from PUFA, then it would need the use of cyclodextrins to help macrophages to eat away the cholesteryl esters, as Ray Peat has mentioned in a recent 2019 newsletter.

If the plaque is the accumulation in the arterial walls of the remnants of a continuing skirmish between the protagonists - antigens and antibodies - from chronic bacterial infection and white blood cells responding to eliminate it, and calcium biofilms being formed by bacteria for protection, then the treatment would involve both biofilm busters and proteolytic enzymes to eat away the plaque.

But this is just my take on arterial plaques, and I'd like to get a more professional take on it. Some articles on this that's a step up from a simple Google search (that usually ends up with a poor take on it) would be very much appreciated.

@CLASH
@Broken man
@StephanF
there's a substamce we have all forgotten that can dissolve gallstones, liver stones, dissolve cholesterol dissolve fat and is the most powerful degreaser known

Limonene

a few studies on a google said limonene does have an effect on plaque and atherosclerosis

one amazon review said it dissolved the plastic bottle it was in.

Amazon product ASIN B0025PX4JCView: https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-D-Limonene-Stimulates-Detoxifying/dp/B0025PX4JC

 

[yerrag]

@CLASH
@Broken man
@StephanF
there's a substamce we have all forgotten that can dissolve gallstones, liver stones, dissolve cholesterol dissolve fat and is the most powerful degreaser known

Limonene

a few studies on a google said limonene does have an effect on plaque and atherosclerosis

one amazon review said it dissolved the plastic bottle it was in.

Amazon product ASIN B0025PX4JCView: https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-D-Limonene-Stimulates-Detoxifying/dp/B0025PX4JC

Interesting.

I use it as a hair conditioner, but as a component of citrus fruits.. After shampoo, I would apply the juice squeezed from a small citrus fruit that measures less than the diameter of a quarter.

I have to look into it. Apart from oral intake, another way is to use essential oils that contain plenty of d-limonene and have it diffused using a cold diffuser while asleep. The substance gets breathed in and goes into our bloodstream, bypassing the liver, avoiding the glucoronidation stage.

I have to find the essentials oil with high content of d-limonene.

 

[johnwester130]

Interesting.

I use it as a hair conditioner, but as a component of citrus fruits.. After shampoo, I would apply the juice squeezed from a small citrus fruit that measures less than the diameter of a quarter.

I have to look into it. Apart from oral intake, another way is to use essential oils that contain plenty of d-limonene and have it diffused using a cold diffuser while asleep. The substance gets breathed in and goes into our bloodstream, bypassing the liver, avoiding the glucoronidation stage.

I have to find the essentials oil with high content of d-limonene.

..........why not just take the capsules? that's what the studies and reviews do.

read some of the reviews, you can use the search button, people mention using it for arteries, gallstones, dissolving plaque, etc

 

[yerrag]

..........why not just take the capsules? that's what the studies and reviews do.

Because, as I said, it bypasses the liver and the glucoronidation most of all. How much of the substances is left when it gets to your circulation?

Oral is the most common method of delivery of substances. Inhalation isn't as common. Topical is another. I've found a combination of these delivery methods helpful.

 

[johnwester130]

Because, as I said, it bypasses the liver and the glucoronidation most of all. How much of the substances is left when it gets to your circulation?

Oral is the most common method of delivery of substances. Inhalation isn't as common. Topical is another. I've found a combination of these delivery methods helpful.

do you think the calcium blockages people have are locked up in fat/cholesterol?

something must be holding the calcium together?

 

[johnwester130]

I thought that was thyroid's main purpose, to keep arteries clean? OJ, milk, thyroid is all geared towards heart health.

limonene.

literally dissolves gallstones, liver stones, fat and plaque

 

[yerrag]

do you think the calcium blockages people have are locked up in fat/cholesterol?

something must be holding the calcium together?

I think calcification is a term used too loosely. You can have calcium building up internally, inside cells, and this results from a combination of the cell membrane allowing more calcium into the cells than what is allowed, due to low potassium in the cell membrane; and the lack of mitochondrial CO2 production, which would have CO2 turn into carbonic acid and carry away the calcium out of the cell. ,

You can also have calcium being used by microbiome colonies to form biofilms in the media of blood vessels, and you can also have calcium being in the intima of blood vessels, as a mixture of oxidized LDL and remnants of immune cells fighting pathogens, and even dormant pathogens, together forming plaque.

The blockages can either be due to the accumulation of plaque that end up looking like calcium scales lining up the internal walls of steel pipes in plumbing, which still allow flow but impeding it; or due to chunks of plaque that fall off and block blood vessels that already have a low cross-sectional area from plaques formed.

Calcium is definitely held together, and different methods are used to break the plaque and biofilm apart. Gentle action is better as this keeps chunks of plaque from falling off and causing blockages.

 

[johnwester130]

I think calcification is a term used too loosely. You can have calcium building up internally, inside cells, and this results from a combination of the cell membrane allowing more calcium into the cells than what is allowed, due to low potassium in the cell membrane; and the lack of mitochondrial CO2 production, which would have CO2 turn into carbonic acid and carry away the calcium out of the cell. ,

You can also have calcium being used by microbiome colonies to form biofilms in the media of blood vessels, and you can also have calcium being in the intima of blood vessels, as a mixture of oxidized LDL and remnants of immune cells fighting pathogens, and even dormant pathogens, together forming plaque.

The blockages can either be due to the accumulation of plaque that end up looking like calcium scales lining up the internal walls of steel pipes in plumbing, which still allow flow but impeding it; or due to chunks of plaque that fall off and block blood vessels that already have a low cross-sectional area from plaques formed.

Calcium is definitely held together, and different methods are used to break the plaque and biofilm apart. Gentle action is better as this keeps chunks of plaque from falling off and causing blockages.

if you melt the plaque/cholesterol, you can avoid the blockage problem I assume?

 

[yerrag]

if you melt the plaque/cholesterol, you can avoid the blockage problem I assume?

Yes.

I think you have to lyse them so that both lipid and protein components are broken down. That's why when systemic enzymes are used, a thoughtful and well-fornulated blend, incorporating lipase and proteases, and maybe even amylase, is used. The lysing should be slow so it doesn't shock the system and cause problems.

Ray discussed the use of cyclodextrins to help macrophages eat away oxidized LDL. But I don't know of such a product.

It also helps to increase one's zeta-potential to keep the blood from sludgy and minimize blockages.

 

[johnwester130]

Yes.

I think you have to lyse them so that both lipid and protein components are broken down. That's why when systemic enzymes are used, a thoughtful and well-fornulated blend, incorporating lipase and proteases, and maybe even amylase, is used. The lysing should be slow so it doesn't shock the system and cause problems.

Ray discussed the use of cyclodextrins to help macrophages eat away oxidized LDL. But I don't know of such a product.

It also helps to increase one's zeta-potential to keep the blood from sludgy and minimize blockages.

thoughts on bromelain?

I suppose it does the same sort of thing as serrapeptase?

 

[yerrag]

thoughts on bromelain?

I suppose it does the same sort of thing as serrapeptase?

They are both proteases, but as I understand it, serrapeptase is more powerful. But even as proteases, they are different as well. I don't know the specifics, but different kinda of proteases work of different kinds of amino acids.

 

[johnwester130]

They are both proteases, but as I understand it, serrapeptase is more powerful. But even as proteases, they are different as well. I don't know the specifics, but different kinda of proteases work of different kinds of amino acids.

did anyone discover the specific type of fibrin that is on the scalp of bald men?

 

[MayaPapaya]

I'll add the lysine and proline and I'm good to go.

Will see how this goes. I'm going to be monitoring by RDW to see the direct effect of my this protocol in reducing plaque:

RDW- An Overlooked Yet Low-Cost Biomarker For Cardiovascular Risk

What about Lumbrokinase ?

 

[yerrag]

What about Lumbrokinase ?

I've heard good things about it. Go check the Quax podcast of Tarmander. There's an episode on it.

I've used it before but just like other supps it has no effect on my blood pressure, which I had hoped would lower with less plaque. But to be fair, no supp has worked for me in lowering my bp.

I've used serrapeptase but I'm afraid that further use would be counterproductive as I was afraid it could cause the fibrous cap to dissolve, and that would cause the necrotic core in the medial layer to ooze out into the blood vessel and cause the blood vessel to be blocked by thrombosis.

I think Lumbrokinase is safer and I still hope to use it in the future. But I needed to get all my ducks in a row before I use it. As part of a stack, it could work.

 

[MayaPapaya]

I've heard good things about it. Go check the Quax podcast of Tarmander. There's an episode on it.

I've used it before but just like other supps it has no effect on my blood pressure, which I had hoped would lower with less plaque. But to be fair, no supp has worked for me in lowering my bp.

I've used serrapeptase but I'm afraid that further use would be counterproductive as I was afraid it could cause the fibrous cap to dissolve, and that would cause the necrotic core in the medial layer to ooze out into the blood vessel and cause the blood vessel to be blocked by thrombosis.

I think Lumbrokinase is safer and I still hope to use it in the future. But I needed to get all my ducks in a row before I use it. As part of a stack, it could work.

Thank you very much!

 

[johnwester130]

This was ray peat's answer

Correcting hypothyroidism does it.


Can Vet J. 2014 May; 55(5): 484–488.
Atherosclerosis associated with vasculopathic lesions in a golden retriever with hypercholesterolemia
Nicole A. Boynosky and Laura Stokking
Abstract
A 2-year-old neutered male golden retriever dog presented for lameness secondary to ulcerations of multiple digital paw pads was diagnosed with vasculitis and hypercholesterolemia. Despite treatment, ischemic necrosis progressed to include all distal extremities and the dog eventually expired due to myocardial infarction secondary to severe atherosclerosis. The rapid demise and the dermatologic lesions may have been secondary to cholesterol embolism syndrome which has never before been reported in a dog.
The 3 most clinically significant lipids are fatty acids, sterols (cholesterol), and acylglycerols (primarily triglycerides). Because they are water-insoluble, lipids are transported by lipoproteins: chylomicrons, very low-density lipoproteins, low-density lipoproteins, and high-density lipoproteins (1). Hyperlipidemia, defined as an elevation in plasma concentration of triglycerides and/or cholesterol, can be physiological (i.e., postprandial) or pathogenic (i.e., alterations in lipoprotein metabolism) (2,3). Pathogenic causes of hyperlipidemia may be primary or may be secondary to cholestasis, high-fat diets, drug administration, nephrotic syndrome, lymphoma, or endocrinopathies, such as hypothyroidism, hyperadrenocorticism, and diabetes mellitus (2–4). Clinically, hypertriglyceridemia can manifest as vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. More severe cases can result in pancreatitis (2,3). Triglyceride levels > 10 g/L can lead to lipemia retinalis, behavioral changes, seizures, cutaneous xanthomas, and peripheral nerve paralysis (3). Dogs that had plasma cholesterol levels > 7.5 g/L developed severe atherosclerosis (5).


Atherosclerosis, defined as arterial wall thickening as a result of lipid deposition, is rarely seen in dogs and is primarily associated with hypercholesterolemia secondary to hypothyroidism (3,6–8). Atherosclerosis has also been linked to diabetes mellitus, hyperadrenocorticism, hypertension, and hyperthyroidism (6,8–11). Spontaneous atherosclerosis in dogs is rare and was reported to be present in 30 of 6300 dogs (0.5%) in 1 study. Sixteen of 30 dogs had normal serum cholesterol levels, no identifiable endocrinopathy, or a combination of both; suggesting that other factors may contribute to the development of spontaneous atherosclerosis in canines (6). Atherosclerosis is more common in humans than in dogs, presumably because of lifestyle-associated risk factors in humans. Risk factors for human coronary artery disease can be modifiable or non-modifiable. The modifiable risk factors include hyperlipidemia, smoking, diabetes, hypertension, physical inactivity, obesity, and a diet high in carbohydrates and fat. The non-modifiable risk factors include age, gender, genetic factors, and history of coronary heart disease. Biomarkers such as lipid profile and apolioprotein measurements are used to assess risk (12). Dogs are considered poor animal models for the study of human atherosclerosis because canine spontaneous atherosclerosis is so rare (13). Grossly, atherosclerotic plaques occur in the arteries of visceral organs and appear yellow and thickened. Increase in low density lipoproteins (LDL) is a major risk factor for developing atherosclerosis. Lipid is deposited between the tunica intima and tunica media along with foamy macrophages (8.14). Canine and human atherosclerotic lesions show some similarities in histopathology and immunohistochemistry (8). Inflammatory cells are important in human atherosclerosis, but further work is required to assess their role in canine atherosclerosis (3). Inflammation associated with infections, including Chlamydia species, may facilitate development of atherosclerosis in humans, and potentially in dogs (15).
The pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and hypercholesterolemia in canines is not well understood. Dogs with hypercholesterolemia have 2 additional lipoproteins (β-migrating VLDL class and HDLc, which is a sub fraction of HDL) (16). Although atherosclerosis is most commonly associated with hypothyroidism, only dogs with increased levels of very low density β-lipoproteins tend to develop atherosclerotic plaques. These levels may be increased because of decreased removal by tissues secondary to reduction of lipoprotein receptors (3,5).