Taking Enzymes To Lyse Plaque, BP Rising, WBC, Urinating A Lot-Frustrated

Discussion in 'Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure' started by yerrag, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    In my latest iteration of attempting to lower my blood pressure, I began to take proteolytic enzymes over 2 months ago. The idea was to lyse plaque from arteries, arterioles, and capillaries throughout the body, with the hope that plaque would be reduced so that there would be more room for blood to flow, and blood pressure would go down.

    Instead, blood pressure has gone up.

    When I took a proteolytic blend called ZymEssence for 2 months, I noticed blood pressure increase from 180/120 to 210/130 at the end of the period. My WBC count went 5.92, to 7.21, neutrophils from 62.30 to 67.

    I then switched to using serrapeptidase from Enerex for a week.

    My blood pressure stayed the same, still as high, but my WBC count went to 11.34, and neutrophils to 81

    Optimal range for WBC is 5.0 - 7.5 (men), and for neutrophils is 40 - 60%

    This seems to indicate an acute bacterial infection, and I'm led to believe that the lysing of plaque releases a lot of bacteria from the biofilms in the plaque. I also think that the increase in blood pressure is either a decreased room for blood flow in the capillaries (from bits of loose plaque blocking capillary flow), or from increased inflammation from all the neutrophil activity.

    I also note that the serrapeptidase increased wbc neutrophil numbers significantly as compared to the proteolytic enzyme blend ZymEssence.

    Anyone has suggestions on what to pair with these enzynes so that bacteria can be dealt with? Should I be taking doxycycline or would a synergistic combo of oregano oil and colloidal silver be as effective?

    If this isn't related to bacteria, I'd also like to know what is causing the increase in wbc neutrophil count. Could it be toxins? Would it be LPS?

    I'm also not sure why I was urinating so much when taking the serrapeptidase enzyme. What is causing me to urinate so much. When I stopped taking this enzyme for a day, urination frequency returned to normal.

    Thanks.
     
  2. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Why would you mess with these obscure enzymes when things like progesterone, taurine, theanine, aspirin, thyroid etc have been studied in humans (some of them repeatedly) and have been shown to lower BP??
     
  3. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    It's about using the right tool. BP has many causes. Those substances don't do anything towards reducing plaque. They may lower inflammation, but they're just putting out small fires in a raging inferno.
     
  4. shepherdgirl

    shepherdgirl Member

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    Have you had your RDW tested after your course of enzymes/serrapeptase?
     
  5. shepherdgirl

    shepherdgirl Member

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    Have you looked into Kempner's diet?
    (Probably not a great idea if there is a possibility that you are anemic though - i doubt it conains enough iron)
     
  6. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks for asking. My RDW went slightly down from 13.80 to 13.60.

    I didn't know if that meant much or can be considered insignificant due to instrument precision limitations. But if it did, it meant that serrapeptidase was able to lyse some plaque remnants that the proteolytic blend wasn't able to.

    What I can conclude imperfectly is that the ZymEssence proteolytic blend in itself was useful in lysing plaque generally, but there remains to be some cleanup work as far as some remnants remain. Serrapeptidase can do the job, but the dosage of serrapeptidase I had ( 3 x 120,000 SPU daily) was too strong. Being too strong, it was lysing plaque at a far greater rate. This is probably releasing too much bacteria as well as exposing injured endothelial linings and in the process requiring too much of an inflammatory response from white blood cells, specifically the neutrophils. This would explain the sudden jump in neutrophil count.

    I'm glad I had the benefit of having a window into what's going on thru the affordable CBC test. Knowing this, I should not push thru with the use of Serrapeptidase at this dosage level.

    Dr. Wong has a "Heart Support" protocol that involves using, in addition to ZymEssence, other products that may work together with this enzyme synergistically. I experience first-hand what could go wrong using ZymEssence by itself instead of having it as part of a protocol.

    This protocol involves the use of hawthorne berry extract, which according to the description, helps regulate heartbeat. But I believe that as per a NaturalNews article (Naturally Prevent and Remove Dangerous Arterial Plaque ) it has more to do with "removing plaque blockages by widening blood vessels," something which I felt I sorely need from this experience.

    It also involves the use of "a blend of Trimethylglycine (TMG), Dimethylglycine, Yohimbe Bark Extract and Serrapeptidase to help the body make Nitric Oxide."

    I tried to not go with this protocol and went rogue going with using ZymEssence by itself for 2 months, followed by a week of Serrapeptidase. The results don't look good. So now, I'm going by Dr. Wong's book and will order what he recommends. This is what he recommends: Dr. Wong's Essentials® Heart Support Protocol!

    I'll resume in 3 weeks or earlier, depending on when I receive my order. I had to have the order delivered to a US forwarding address on the way to Manila. I'll order 4 month worth of product. Hope this works.

    I think the protocol would be gentle and the other supplements would work hand in glove with ZymEssence to provide a plaque lysing action that would be balanced without provoking the inflammatory response as seen with the huge uptick in neutrophil production and activity.

    I'll continue reporting on this on another thread: "Essential" Hypertension And Appreciating It For What It Really Is I had to make this thread as I had to ask for opinions on this specific matter and this gets a better response.

    But please answer back to this thread if you have more comments. Thanks.
     
  7. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Thanks, but it doesn't look like I would be helped though as my blood sugar regulation is working very well.
     
  8. haidut

    haidut Member

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    How do you know you have plaque? Also, I am not sold on the high BP having many causes. Ultimately, high BP stems from vessel hardening and that is due primarily to cortisol/aldosterone/adrenaline. Plaque may be a co-morbidity but I am not sure it has much to do with high BP as a cause. If high BP had many causes then we would not have anti-adrenaline drugs like propranolol or clonidine reducing it in virtually all cases. Same goes for cortisol antagonists like progesterone and RU486.
    Anyways, you know better about your blood vessel health but if the foal is to simply reduce BP I would focus on the known causes and tools and not jump on some exotic solution, which could be perfectly healthy but does not have much track record specifically for high BP.
    Just my 2c.
     
  9. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I could also ask myself why I think I don't have plaque but I've already asked that before.

    I've not taken any blood pressure medication because doctors can't really help me by way of properly and correctly identifying the cause. It's a foregone conclusion conventional doctors are pill poppers and throwing darts is just as effective. Been thru a few naturopathic doctors and got blind leads; they can't help.

    Best person to do the research, legwork, and thinking is me. Plaque wasn't the first thing I looked at. But I certainly hope it would be the last.

    Does plaque cover up the endothelial cells and impair nitric oxide, a vasodilator? Does plaque form from 15+ years of latent periodontal chronic bacterial infection? Does plaque get expressed in the capillaries of vital organs such as the kidneys by conditions such as hypertension? Yes

    Do I have to get a biopsy to be sure I have plaque before I consider this as a possibility because the medical establishment considers this esoteric?

    I tried wedelolactone thru the herb bhringraja, which acts like spironolactone, and it did not lower blood pressure, even as I tested for high aldosterone. Should work, but it didn't. I thought about and maybe it's because the presence of plaque blunts its effects.

    My plaque theory may be off-beat, but it doesn't make it less sound. Testing my RDW, which in some circles are considered a marker for atherosclerosis, I am beyond optimal range and can be considered a risk for atherosclerosis. I've discussed this in other posts.

    I don't want to force a hammer into a screw just because I'm the carpenter here. Progesterone and vitamin K2 would be nice and easy, and I would have preferred it that way. But it ain't working. I shouldn't keep insisting on using brute force or go on a long waiting game for them to work. I have to move on.

    The bacterial angle is one that's not covered much by you nor this forum. If I corral myself into this box, it wouldn't be helping me at all.

    It's not about saying one thing doesn't work. I believe progesterone and pregnenolone and DHEA have their part, as far adrenal health goes and cortisol and aldosterone goes, without being in excess these corticosteroids won't be causing high BP.

    But my thinking that plaque from 15+ years of chronic bacterial infection isn't something coming out of the blues. I have posted also about studies linking periodontal issues to plaque. It's just that doctors prefer to look the other way, in their compartmentalized view, to which many people kowtow to.
     
  10. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    @haidut Since you made me consider a solution to my hypertension other than attacking it from the plaque reduction standpoint, and given that I have 3 weeks of rest before I begin Dr. Wong's heart support protocol, I'm going to use the time to try lowering my aldosterone levels in the hope that it would reduce blood pressure significantly.

    From this article, Antioxidant enzyme deficiencies and vascular disease , I've seen how a high aldosterone level could lead no lower NO levels, which would lead to the loss of vasodilation, and lead to increased blood pressure. Not only that, it would lead to excess production of mitochondrial ROS from cellular respiration that would overwhelm available antioxidant capacity to deal with it. I could theorize that this would explain why my uric acid levels are high (partly contributed by low urinary uric acid excretion levels) as the body's adaptation to the increased oxidative stress.

    To summarize the article on how high aldosterone levels lead to low NO levels, high aldosterone levels suppress the expression of the G6PD enzyme, which leads to lower NADPH production (in the pentose phosphate pathway), and this leads to lower GSH levels, which leads to lower eNOS enzyme levels, resulting in low NO production, and increased superozide radical production.

    To lower aldosterone levels, I would have to give some support to my adrenals, in the hope that aldosterone levels would fall back to normal levels. To try to make this happen, I could:
    • supplement pregnenolne, DHEA, and progesterone
    • increase electrolyte intake across the board - sodium, calcium, potassium, magnesium
    • supplement with vitamin C
    Would this be more in line with what you're saying?
     
  11. drk

    drk Member

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    To verify plaque a simple non-invasive procedure that can be redone every so often to track progress is a carotid artery ultrasound.
    I am an ND and I developed a formulation available in Health Stores across Canada called Healthy Heart plus which can also be found online. At 1x the dose had lots of good feedback re BP. At 2-3x the dose had good feedback re quick plaque regression (both symptoms and imaging).
    Healthy hormone presence and function, i.e. thyroid etc is also important for sustaining the effect.
     
  12. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    I have heard high dose vitamin C is great for cleaning out your arteries. Maybe get an IV a few times?
     
  13. olive

    olive Member

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    This isn’t my area of expertise but have you tried vitamin k mk7? In bodybuilding circles it’s touted as very effective at reversing plaque at 400-800mcg/day. Also what’s your magnesium intake look like? Fixing a mag deficiency reliably lowers blood pressure.
     
  14. shepherdgirl

    shepherdgirl Member

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    I mentioned the Kempner diet because it was developed as "a radical treatment for malignant hypertension"(Wikipedia, "Rice Diet") and renal disease. Denise Minger, in the article i linked to above, mentions that
    coronary artery disease was often improved as well.
     
  15. Fractality

    Fractality Member

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    @yerrag have you done any sort of cardiac/vessel imaging confirming the presence of plaque?
     
  16. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    The carotid artery ultrasound is a good idea. I had asked about it, and the only reason I didn't do it was I had to take a trip across town to get it done. I don't think it costs a lot, it's non-invasive, so there's no reason not to do it.

    But it is the carotid, perhaps the largest artery in the body. If scan shows that there is plaque there, I can only say that there is a high probability that there is plaque in my capillaries. One can argue that it's not proof enough there's plaque in my capillaries, if one should want to still question the presence of plaque in my capillaries.

    I could argue that I have 15+ years of periodontal disease that was hidden and not acted upon, and that I could argue that this chronic bacterial infection would have resulted in a lot of plaque building up over the years. But then, unseen, people can still question whether this logic is sound.

    I could argue also that a marker, called RDW, shows that I have a good likelihood of plaque in my capillaries, but it's still not enough proof.

    I could argue that the reaction I got from the putative lysing action of proteolytic enzymes - high innate immune reaction from a big jump in WBC in the form of neutrophils, and the increased urination, which I would attribute to substance released in the breakdown of plaque - could be seen as another confirmation.

    I can deduce many things as Sherlock Holmes would, but I needed one more test - to be sure. And this is after so many years of excluding plaque as a cause - not by me - but by naturopathic doctors - and not being able to arrive at a resolution.

    This is what I've harped about in the past. Doctors and people don't deduce, they are the modern Thomases. To see is to believe. Maybe I'm not being fair. The need to prove that no test is neglected protects doctors from being sued. Hence tests galore - damn if they're invasive or not. But this has become the mindset - even when one is doctoring oneself.

    Puzzles are never fully formed before one gets the full picture. We already knew that as kids.
     
  17. TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    Is your water chlorinated?

    I see you're from Manila so I assume it is based on a google search.

    From my recent findings:
    - Inhalation of chlorine in the shower causes a direct significant lowering of ATP in the heart cells, a decrease in heart contractility and healthy pressure levels, increases lactate and anaerobic metabolism, and a breakdown of collagen of the arterial walls
    - Chlorine by itself is an oxidant
    - Chlorine destroys vitamin E
    - Chlorine destroys vitamin C
    - Chlorine oxidizes PUFA to become harmful oxidants
    - Chlorine oxidizes iron into the very harmful iron oxide oxidant
    - Chlorine lowers T3 and T4 levels
    - Populations without chlorinated water have drastically lower levels of coronary heart disease and some even none
    - Chlorine displaces iodine, vital for thyroid hormone production, in the body
    - Studies show it causes atherosclerosis directly in animals
    - A doctor noted chlorine exposure could cause heart valve damage
    - Chlorine was shown to cause cardiomegaly in victims of an leak accident
    - Chlorine increases iNOS
    - Chlorine creates a toxin called Alloxan which can destroy cells which can cause diabetes, chlorine also interferes with zinc metabolism, creating the possibility of diabetes to develop
    - Chlorine and its various forms are proven carcinogens and cancer mutagens
    - White blood cells create chlorine to kill bacteria, and this chlorine can contribute to atherosclerosis
    - Cardiovascular disease has a higher prevalence in the USA where tap water is chlorinated, compared to Europe where tap water is ozonated

    Bleach is mainly chlorine too.

    Source article: Chlorine Is A Basic Cause For Atherosclerosis And Heart Disease

    There is a scientist that theorizes that chlorine particles stick to the arterial walls, which after leukocytes, which collect calcium and lipids, attack them and bind to them, causing plaques. The leukocytes attack the chlorine because chlorine is very antigenic. Chlorine has the same primary way of action with bacteria in drinking water, binding to the bacteria.

    Scientist website article: Heart Disease and Chlorine due to arterial plaques.

    Summary quote:

    "Chlorine attaches to arteries and looks like a foreign substance. White blood cells attack the chlorine. But since it is stuck to arteries, the white blood cells stick to the arteries. Then they do what they always do, which is remove excess calcium and fat from the blood. It accumulates to form plaques."

    Interesting theory to examine, to say the least.

    There was a doctor called Dr. Morrison MD. He experimented with giving his cardiovascular patients chondroitin sulfate and saw in all of his patients that their calcified plaques would completely disappear and they would have a healthy cardiovascular system again. He documented these case studies. He proved this same effect in animals. A recent study showed that osteoarthritis patients taking chondroitin sulfate had lower coronary heart disease occurence. A similar substance to chondroitin sulfate is mesoglycan, also called aortic acid. Mesoglycan was shown in a study to prevent a 750% increase in arterial plaque development in atherosclerosis patients compared to the placebo group. Mesoglycan has been studied a lot for cardiovascular disease and has shown to be effective in all studies so far. Mesoglycan also has the unique ability to reduce fibrinogen levels without thinning the blood.
    Linus Pauling was a two time nobel prize winning chemist who cured atherosclerosis in patients with high doses of vitamin C combined with high dose l-lysine and l-proline.
    The Dr. Shute Brothers used high doses of vitamin E extracted from wheat germ oil (sold here as TocoVit) to cure all types of cardiovascular disease including hypertension. They treated thousands of patients successfully and documented these cases. It has been adviced to start with low doses of 50 IU with vitamin E and work up the dose.

    Forum member Travis recommended bromelain, a proteolytic enzyme from pineapple, to safely lyse plaques.

    Chondroitin sulfate and mesoglycan are both natural animal derived substances.
     
  18. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Is this available online and available from a US website? I've found anything priced in sourced from Canada to be unduly expensive both in item pricing and in shipping, especially when it goes overseas. I'd like to try it but I find Canadian pricing alone is higher even when I compare to an item in the US air-shipped to me in Manila, shipping included. Thanks!

    Do you have some references? I've done IV chelation before so not being a first-timer to IV, I would be open to it. I've heard of vitamin C and lysine (and proline) being the Linus Pauling protocol for removing Lp(a) of plaque, and have been dosing orally. I've dosed based on the C-Flushing, which only tells me my vitamin C need is 4 grams only, which can easily be done orally. Then again, lysing plaque is a different objective, and so the vitamin C needed for that would be far higher than what the C-Flush Test would indicate.

    Yes, I've taken Kuinone at 15mg/day. It doesn't work for me though, as my hypertension isn't confined to a case of calcifiation of the arteries, which I believe K2 would address.

    Sorry if I hadn't read through it, and thanks for the explanation. I'm a regular rice eater, no bread, and rice for breakfast till dinner 3x/day. And I've been on white rice for 3 years after a good 20 on brown (when I had blood sugar problems leading to hypoglycemia). I believe that the Kempner Diet addresses diabetic conditions, and high blood sugar is one cause (the other being high aldosterone) where a G6PD enzyme deficiency can be induced. This would limit the production of NADPH, which would eventually lead to poor NO to vasodilate the endothelial lining: Taking Enzymes To Lyse Plaque, BP Rising, WBC, Urinating A Lot-Frustrated .

    Instead of addressing the high blood sugar aspect of it, I'm also looking at the high aldosterone aspect of why I could have low NO to vasodilate.
     
  19. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I think I can discount the likelihood of chlorine being a cause.

    For one, my siblings don't have this provlem. They all live in Manila. I also developed hypertension when I was living in LA.

    Also, I use a drinking water filter to remove chlorine as well as other contaminants.

    I also for about 10 years had been using a chlorine filter (Aquasana), and during that time there was no change with my hypertensive conditions. I don't use it anymore these days though. But I take very short showers these days, being that I don't soap so much anymore to maintain the bacterial health in my skin.

    I also hate the smell of chlorine, and never swim in pools that still use the old method of chlorination, which really causes my eye to turn red and my skin to feel like it was bleached. I like the newer pools where salt is used to create chlorine. It's more gentle, although I was disappointed that when I spoke to the guy who maintains our village pool, he says matter-of-factly that relying solely on salt for chlorination is a lie. They still use chlorine (I think sodium hypochlorite to be exact) to help with keeping the pool clean. Just the same, I don't swim for health anymore these days.
     
  20. shepherdgirl

    shepherdgirl Member

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    I posted this on another thread but thought it might be relevant:
    IIRC Aldosterol can control the sphincter muscles in the eye. The pupil test is supposed to tell you if your aldosterone level is sufficient and/or indicate adrenal health.
    Check out this website
    for pupil test and aldosterone info.
    Also check out Ray's paper: Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging
     
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