Fixed My Frequent Urination that Disturbs Sleep, But Many Questions Remain

Owen B

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
301
First of all, I had no problem before with frequent urination, but it's when I did something to fix my health - taking some substances - really plain harmless - that I would experience increased urination. To the point I would be urinating every 45 minutes during the day, and I would be waking up at least 4 times during my sleep to urinate. It is bothersome, to say the least. And downright worrisome, as you can see how much sleep is taken from me. And frustrating, as with this condition, my health would turn for the worst, albeit in a slow manner (like people when they age and eventually accept the false idea that older people need less sleep), while I realize, as maybe many in this forum would, how very challenging it is to improve one's health. This is one of the many gotcha's one encounters as one's health worsens as one tries to improve it.

Once, I was taking magnesium chloride- as much as 600mg of elemental magnesium worth of it. I took it for at least 4 months. It took that long to realize I was losing sleep, and I was urinating very often, even with just a trickle of urine to spur my urge. My allergic rhinitis came back, and I also had a dry cough that wouldn't go away, stuck in my throat. Only then did I test my urine pH, and found that I had become acidic, with a urine pH of 5.5 (it was at the edge of the pH test's range of 5.5-8) where optimal would be 6.5-6.8 (this is a surrogate biomarker for blood pH used by naturopaths, but never by mainstream pharma doctors). And by serendipity, I came across an article shared by @Amazoniac which informed me that magnesium chloride intake is an acidic load, and that would explain why my acid-base balance got wrecked by intake of magnesium chloride daily. But this was a good lesson on having good acid-base balance for health, but not the last one regarding why the body would urinate so much.

I mentioned of a case of high frequency urination without a full bladder in the above paragraph, and I linked it to having a very acidic ecf (extracellular fluid, including blood). Next, I was to encounter high frequency urination, but spurred by copius amounts of urine spurred by a full bladder. Once again, it was from taking another innocuous substance that has purportedly no side-effects. I was in contact with the manufacturer about it, but I was ignored. It just goes to show that it's not pharmaceutical companies that are guilty of ignoring adverse effects for the sake of marketing; it also happens with non-pharma alternative health suppliers. I can hardly fault them though - lawyers would advice anyone in any field not to admit to anything, as that is how companies (and individuals) survive in our legal and 'lawful' age. Anyway, "caveat emptor" should be our guide.

I took proteolytic enzymes because I wanted to lower my high blood pressure condition. The plan was for the enzymes to lyse the plaque in the blood vessels, and by lessening the plaque, my blood pressure would lower. As health fortunes would turn and not conform to plan, I would find my blood pressure increasing. Not only that, I gradually developed a case of high frequency urination as well, and even more foaming with my urination. I was slow to notice this, as is the case when one takes a supplement and lets the "should" overshadow the "is" that is happening. No matter, I become a human oasis that would be a welcome sight in an arid desert - urinating so much MBS would have me as his best friend.

I stopped taking the proteolytic enzymes, by then figuring out it must be releasing either immune complexes or dormant bacteria embedded in the plaque as the plaque was being lysed - or both. The immune complexes would accumulate in my kidneys and be a source of inflammation, and/or the bacteria released would activate the immune system. Both inflammation and infection would be making the immune system kick into high gear. ROS (oxidants)would be generated to kill bacteria through phagocytosis, and anti-oxidants in the body would also be needed to quell the oxidative stresses from spillover effects of ROS on the surrounding tissue (collateral damage) as well as from the inflammation caused by the inflammatory cytokines and chemokines produced as a reaction to the immune complexes.

All the while, through all this hullabaloo, a lot of water is generated as a by-product. At least that is what I've read (Now I have to find the references for this as I read through many things and don't stop each and every time to note my references otherwise I'd be bogged down).

So anyway, I'm developing this idea in my mind that when the immune system is very active killing bacteria and dealing with inflammation, it produces a lot of water as a result of the killing action of oxidants on pathogens, as well as the neutralizing action of antioxidants on both the oxidative stresses of inflammation as well as the spillover effects of oxidants used in phagocytosis. So, lately, I have began to approach my urination problem (as well as my high blood pressure problem) from this angle of attack.

For a month, I took 1 liter of 100 ppm chloride dioxide spaced out over 8-10 divided doses. I saw my urination become manageable and I was able to sleep better. But my blood pressure increased. I was able to conclude that chlorine dioxide took some of the load away from the immune system in killing pathogens in my system, such that the immune system didn't have to work so hard, and in the process it also produced less water (and urine) as a by-product. All's well and good, except that my blood pressure increased.

I think that bp increased because the chlorine dioxide provided a lot of chlorine atoms that probably increased the production of HOCl (an ROS called hypochlorous acid) which is very strong but inflammatory) for use in phagocytosis, but the spillover effect of this ROS was increased causing increased inflammation. And this increased inflammation was manifested in higher blood pressure. The increased inflammation increased oxidative stress, and it needed more anti-oxidant activity, and more albumin was needed and oxidized. Because albumin is needed to increase blood volume, my blood volume would be unable to build up as a result. Having a lower blood volume would require higher pressure to compensate for lower blood volume.

@Jam shared with me a study showing that the use of iodine would be a better alternative to chlorine dioxide, as iodine being used in place of chlorine by the MPO (myeloperoxide) by neutrophils in phagoycytosis would generate less inflammation. So, I'm going to try using iodine. Carefully. With not too little of it to render it useless, while being cognizant of not overdosing on it to affect my thyroid condition. Knowing how Ray Peat is so cautious of iodine supplementation, this is not a step I take lightly but considered by weighing the relative risk and benefit of doing so.

So, as I haven't received my order of potassium iodide, I resorted a few days ago to trying out methylene blue, using @haidut 's Oxidal. For the past 2 days and onwards, I've been taking 2 x 3 drops of Oxidal daily, putting the Oxidal drops in a capsule and taking it orally. Given that MB is being used as an antibiotic for UTI as well as for fish, I decided to use it. So far, I have been sleeping well and I'm seeing lower blood pressure. So far, it's been working well but still 2 days don't make a trend.

I'm glad i'm able to experience my frequent urination as a result of taking supplements as I got to better understand a cause of frequent urination by happenstance. It did not come to me like a thief in the night, as would be the case when it slowly creeps in on us, as with elderly people, without knowing the cause. Some people in our forum have experienced problems of frequent urination and I hope my experience would help them figure out their own malady with it.

If I have solved my riddle of frequent urination, I now can focus on why urine still foams. I'm working on this now, and hopefully would soon do a 3-month daily intake of urea. I've done a shorter period of its use, and results have been promising but not conclusive. Ray has spoken a lot about urea, and I've come to rely on its use topically, every effectively on wounds as it has an antibacterial effect. The antibacterial effect is due to its ability to eliminate decaying organic matter in the wound, thus depriving pathogens of a food source. I'm hoping it has a similar effect internally, and not only that. I'm hoping it would be able to isolate the antibody from the pathogen in the immune complex (IC) accumulating in my kidneys, as urea is being used to isolate ICs in petri dishes. I hate these ICs. I think they're a problem with me because vaccination has altered my immune response and made it produce ICs where it would not have had I not been vaccinated 2 years before I began having hypertension.
First of all, I had no problem before with frequent urination, but it's when I did something to fix my health - taking some substances - really plain harmless - that I would experience increased urination. To the point I would be urinating every 45 minutes during the day, and I would be waking up at least 4 times during my sleep to urinate. It is bothersome, to say the least. And downright worrisome, as you can see how much sleep is taken from me. And frustrating, as with this condition, my health would turn for the worst, albeit in a slow manner (like people when they age and eventually accept the false idea that older people need less sleep), while I realize, as maybe many in this forum would, how very challenging it is to improve one's health. This is one of the many gotcha's one encounters as one's health worsens as one tries to improve it.

Once, I was taking magnesium chloride- as much as 600mg of elemental magnesium worth of it. I took it for at least 4 months. It took that long to realize I was losing sleep, and I was urinating very often, even with just a trickle of urine to spur my urge. My allergic rhinitis came back, and I also had a dry cough that wouldn't go away, stuck in my throat. Only then did I test my urine pH, and found that I had become acidic, with a urine pH of 5.5 (it was at the edge of the pH test's range of 5.5-8) where optimal would be 6.5-6.8 (this is a surrogate biomarker for blood pH used by naturopaths, but never by mainstream pharma doctors). And by serendipity, I came across an article shared by @Amazoniac which informed me that magnesium chloride intake is an acidic load, and that would explain why my acid-base balance got wrecked by intake of magnesium chloride daily. But this was a good lesson on having good acid-base balance for health, but not the last one regarding why the body would urinate so much.

I mentioned of a case of high frequency urination without a full bladder in the above paragraph, and I linked it to having a very acidic ecf (extracellular fluid, including blood). Next, I was to encounter high frequency urination, but spurred by copius amounts of urine spurred by a full bladder. Once again, it was from taking another innocuous substance that has purportedly no side-effects. I was in contact with the manufacturer about it, but I was ignored. It just goes to show that it's not pharmaceutical companies that are guilty of ignoring adverse effects for the sake of marketing; it also happens with non-pharma alternative health suppliers. I can hardly fault them though - lawyers would advice anyone in any field not to admit to anything, as that is how companies (and individuals) survive in our legal and 'lawful' age. Anyway, "caveat emptor" should be our guide.

I took proteolytic enzymes because I wanted to lower my high blood pressure condition. The plan was for the enzymes to lyse the plaque in the blood vessels, and by lessening the plaque, my blood pressure would lower. As health fortunes would turn and not conform to plan, I would find my blood pressure increasing. Not only that, I gradually developed a case of high frequency urination as well, and even more foaming with my urination. I was slow to notice this, as is the case when one takes a supplement and lets the "should" overshadow the "is" that is happening. No matter, I become a human oasis that would be a welcome sight in an arid desert - urinating so much MBS would have me as his best friend.

I stopped taking the proteolytic enzymes, by then figuring out it must be releasing either immune complexes or dormant bacteria embedded in the plaque as the plaque was being lysed - or both. The immune complexes would accumulate in my kidneys and be a source of inflammation, and/or the bacteria released would activate the immune system. Both inflammation and infection would be making the immune system kick into high gear. ROS (oxidants)would be generated to kill bacteria through phagocytosis, and anti-oxidants in the body would also be needed to quell the oxidative stresses from spillover effects of ROS on the surrounding tissue (collateral damage) as well as from the inflammation caused by the inflammatory cytokines and chemokines produced as a reaction to the immune complexes.

All the while, through all this hullabaloo, a lot of water is generated as a by-product. At least that is what I've read (Now I have to find the references for this as I read through many things and don't stop each and every time to note my references otherwise I'd be bogged down).

So anyway, I'm developing this idea in my mind that when the immune system is very active killing bacteria and dealing with inflammation, it produces a lot of water as a result of the killing action of oxidants on pathogens, as well as the neutralizing action of antioxidants on both the oxidative stresses of inflammation as well as the spillover effects of oxidants used in phagocytosis. So, lately, I have began to approach my urination problem (as well as my high blood pressure problem) from this angle of attack.

For a month, I took 1 liter of 100 ppm chloride dioxide spaced out over 8-10 divided doses. I saw my urination become manageable and I was able to sleep better. But my blood pressure increased. I was able to conclude that chlorine dioxide took some of the load away from the immune system in killing pathogens in my system, such that the immune system didn't have to work so hard, and in the process it also produced less water (and urine) as a by-product. All's well and good, except that my blood pressure increased.

I think that bp increased because the chlorine dioxide provided a lot of chlorine atoms that probably increased the production of HOCl (an ROS called hypochlorous acid) which is very strong but inflammatory) for use in phagocytosis, but the spillover effect of this ROS was increased causing increased inflammation. And this increased inflammation was manifested in higher blood pressure. The increased inflammation increased oxidative stress, and it needed more anti-oxidant activity, and more albumin was needed and oxidized. Because albumin is needed to increase blood volume, my blood volume would be unable to build up as a result. Having a lower blood volume would require higher pressure to compensate for lower blood volume.

@Jam shared with me a study showing that the use of iodine would be a better alternative to chlorine dioxide, as iodine being used in place of chlorine by the MPO (myeloperoxide) by neutrophils in phagoycytosis would generate less inflammation. So, I'm going to try using iodine. Carefully. With not too little of it to render it useless, while being cognizant of not overdosing on it to affect my thyroid condition. Knowing how Ray Peat is so cautious of iodine supplementation, this is not a step I take lightly but considered by weighing the relative risk and benefit of doing so.

So, as I haven't received my order of potassium iodide, I resorted a few days ago to trying out methylene blue, using @haidut 's Oxidal. For the past 2 days and onwards, I've been taking 2 x 3 drops of Oxidal daily, putting the Oxidal drops in a capsule and taking it orally. Given that MB is being used as an antibiotic for UTI as well as for fish, I decided to use it. So far, I have been sleeping well and I'm seeing lower blood pressure. So far, it's been working well but still 2 days don't make a trend.

I'm glad i'm able to experience my frequent urination as a result of taking supplements as I got to better understand a cause of frequent urination by happenstance. It did not come to me like a thief in the night, as would be the case when it slowly creeps in on us, as with elderly people, without knowing the cause. Some people in our forum have experienced problems of frequent urination and I hope my experience would help them figure out their own malady with it.

If I have solved my riddle of frequent urination, I now can focus on why urine still foams. I'm working on this now, and hopefully would soon do a 3-month daily intake of urea. I've done a shorter period of its use, and results have been promising but not conclusive. Ray has spoken a lot about urea, and I've come to rely on its use topically, every effectively on wounds as it has an antibacterial effect. The antibacterial effect is due to its ability to eliminate decaying organic matter in the wound, thus depriving pathogens of a food source. I'm hoping it has a similar effect internally, and not only that. I'm hoping it would be able to isolate the antibody from the pathogen in the immune complex (IC) accumulating in my kidneys, as urea is being used to isolate ICs in petri dishes. I hate these ICs. I think they're a problem with me because vaccination has altered my immune response and made it produce ICs where it would not have had I not been vaccinated 2 years before I began having hypertension.
I posted to your thread just a little while ago and then ran into this. I don't know if you're interested in these kinds of remedies but there's a lot of good looking products here that cover a lot of different kinds of related conditions. I'm probably going to try one of them at some point. Cystitis / Urinary Tract Infection - Homeopathic Remedies – United Remedies

You could also enter "kidney" or whatever in the search box.
 

yerrag

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Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
6,672
Location
Manila
didn't read the whole original post of yours. Do you have a cyst? How did you determine the inflammation in in those capillaries? Have you had a scan?
I only had a KUB (kidney and urinary bladder) scan. It was negative but I don't rely on such scans as these scans only come out positive in very advanced cases. Being aware of symptoms as well as knowing to use blood tests to get an early warning gets me to nip problems in the bud.

Frequent urination and foaming are such signs. Acidic urine pH as well. High blood pressure. Higher than normal urinary albumin /creatinine values. Low serum albumin values. And CBC markers that reflect lower blood volume, high wbc and neutrophils and monocytes indicating low-level Infection and inflammation.

These would not. be given much importance by typical doctors. Pretty useless people and actually harmful people when they give you a false sense of health.


Have you thought of oxalic acid problems? They're plant poisons, like phytic acid. In the absence of calcium and other minerals, they form oxalates, soluble salts that get into the blood and the kidney. Home-Low Oxalate Diet They're the main cause of stones.
Actually I was sent a pm by a member here linking to a book by a Colonel Joe who advocates using foods rich in oxalic acid as a therapy. I did not give it much attention until a few weeks ago and started to entertain the idea.

So yesterday I began thst therapy. Will see how that goes.
 

yerrag

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Thread starter
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
6,672
Location
Manila
I posted to your thread just a little while ago and then ran into this. I don't know if you're interested in these kinds of remedies but there's a lot of good looking products here that cover a lot of different kinds of related conditions. I'm probably going to try one of them at some point. Cystitis / Urinary Tract Infection - Homeopathic Remedies – United Remedies

You could also enter "kidney" or whatever in the search box.
Thanks a lot. I'll give it a spin.
 
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