Take Care Of Your Teeth

[Lee Simeon]

I dont know if this has been brought up, but I recieved toothpaste from georganics, and have so far gotten great results from it. Way better than xylitol or baking soda in my opinion. Good ingredients as well!

 

[Cirion]

My teeth are sensitive but I can tolerate fluoride-free Tom's of maine toothpaste. Also I can handle CLosys mouthwash (chlorine dioxide). Most other toothpastes or mouthwashes cause me bad sensitivities.

 

[schultz]

What do you think determines teeth health then?

I think it a lot of different things can contribute. I am not exactly an expert though.

Fluoride can prevent caries but consuming a large amount of fluoride doesn't seem healthy, even though it would protect the teeth from decay. People who consistently brush and floss, and regularly go to the dentist + get fluoride varnish or whatever, can prevent dental caries, even if they are not in the best health.

Eating processed foods frequently without adequate micronutrients like sucking on candy all day, or drinking several pops (or soda, whatever American's call it...), is probably the main culprit. I made a bit of a case earlier in the thread for whole foods having some protective effects on teeth. Just eating some tougher things might be helpful. I don't know that much about this stuff though.

I did find the study I was thinking of though. (Absence of dental caries in a Nigerian bush village. - PubMed - NCBI) It does note that fluoride wasn't a factor in this group of people, as opposed to some other caries free populations that have large intakes of natural fluoride. The group did have a lot of periodontal disease which seemed to actually lead to loose teeth and loss of teeth, probably from malnutrition, but they were still free of dental caries. They mention brushing with the root of the Kola nut tree, so maybe that is what prevented the dental caries? Or they just didn't eat that much food, or that much sugar, or whatever... Still, they were very malnourished but free of dental caries!!


"In 1959, during a general medical survey of the primitive Ibo village of Awo Omamma, in coastal Nigeria, only two small dental cavities were found in a group of nearly 600 natives, despite evidence of serious malnutrition in all age groups.

The dental pathology encountered in Awo Omamma is almost entirely outright loss of teeth. Periodontal disease is often severe and exhibits an interesting age and type distribution (see Fig. 1). In children, apparently as a result of nutritional deprivation and infection, gingivitis is a very serious problem. After middle age, chronic destructive periodontal disease is most common. Both conditions spare the middle years. The severity of destructive periodontal processes in the older age groups results in many loosened and lost teeth. In the aged, remaining teeth are usually worn to the gum line and show deep staining, but no mottling or chalky enamel.

The diet of the Awo Omamma native consists of roots, chiefly yams and cassava, which are eaten with sauces, chili pepper, small amounts of green vegetables, and, occasionally, dried fish. This diet is deficient in protein, riboflavin, vitamins, and minerals, and does not include sugar, sweetened baked goods, candy, or carbonated beverages, all of which are prohibitive in cost. Milk is likewise a rarity; it is not used for infant feeding but is occasionally added to tea in sweetened condensed form.

A degree of dental hygiene is accomplished by Awo Omammans by chewing on the end of a small stick of wood (often from the root of the Kola nut plant, Sterculia nitida. The fibers are formed into a brush which can scrub effectively the surfaces of the teeth (7). The chewing stick is practically a daily ritual, but whether this cleansing effort plays a large part in preventing decay is unknown. How. ever, its use, by long continued trauma to the gums, might contribute to the high incidence of periodontal disease.

Because of the remarkable lack of dental decay of Awo Omammans raised on inadequate diets and living in a low fluoride area, further attention to this population group might be rewarding in the search for specific causes of caries, particularly if oral bacteriology and salivary pH determinations could accompany more detailed dietary and dental studies."

 

[Stramonium]

fluoride is known to interfere with thyroid gland function and to cause degenerative changes in the central nervous system, impairment of brain function and abnormal development in children

 

[schultz]

fluoride is known to interfere with thyroid gland function and to cause degenerative changes in the central nervous system, impairment of brain function and abnormal development in children

Good for the teeth though! Fluoride varnish seems like the best compromise as you're putting it directly on the teeth and not ingesting it. When you brush with it, it probably gets on the gums a bit, but I imagine that's still better than swallowing it consistently.

If your TSH is rock bottom, I would imagine that the fluoride wouldn't be put into your thyroid.

 

[Stramonium]

I´d be careful to put anything in such thin membranes as the gums specially fluoride ions since it easily displaces iodine within the body

 

[baccheion]

If you must use, take higher amounts of iodine (protocol) to buffer against fluoride. And boron + L-selenomethionine (part of iodine protocol).

 

[Stramonium]

How about not using fluoride in the first place to each their own I guess

 

[ilikecats]

@schultz "The metabolism of the tooth itself and the surrounding tissues, and the composition and quantity of the saliva are the most important factors in tooth health. I have known some people with perfect teeth who had grown up in cultures that didn't practice tooth-brushing. US dentistry is dominated by fetishism. It's good to be aware of the abrasive effects of toothpastes, and to remember how thin enamel is. Some foods, such as raw pineapple or acidic foods, are extremely corrosive to the teeth, and should be followed immediately by rinsing or eating foods with a cleaning and neutralizing effect. The alkaline pH of baking soda helps to free protein films from the teeth." - ray peat

I was reading a blog from this dentist recently (he didn't seem remotely familiar with peats work) and he said that he thought that breathing through the nose with the mouth closed was one of the most important things for dental health which makes sense for me considering that local CO2 levels in the mouth would be extremely different if one was mouth breathing vs nose breathing (with mouth shut). Just some other factors to bring into the mix to try to get the whole picture.

 

[Waynish]

"Mainstream medical science is actually very good regarding oral health" ... "While I do advise fluorized (sic) toothpaste" - Lulz... Why has no dentist I've met ever even heard of teeth remineralizing procedures, then? No, I don't think the mainstream is great at dental health either! So, according to the mainstream, fluoride is bad for every bone except one specific type of bone: the tooth. Why do you allow them these exceptions? Remember when coconut oil was good and saturated fat was bad? Just criticize people who don't make sense! It is good for them.

 

[ilikecats]

“Teeth are very similar to bones, so it's interesting that treating male or female rats with estrogen increases their incidence of tooth decay, and removing their gonads was found to decrease the incidence (Muhler and Shafer, 1952). Supplementing them with thyroid hormone decreased the incidence of cavities in both males and females (Bixler, et al., 1957)." - Ray Peat

Also I recently increased my calcium to phosphate ratio to over 2:1 and its doing wonders for my teeth. Large amounts of phosphate with very little calcium is how Ray said he lost some of his teeth... when he was eating almost only wheat germ for an extended period of time.

 

[Jib]

I forgot to mention "Tooth Mousse," or "MI Paste," or "Recaldent," which is a calcium/phosphate paste you can use. You can get it fluoride-free if you want. The "plus" version has fluoride in it.

Personally I've had better results with Novamin, but the idea of a highly bioavailable formulation of calcium and phosphate ions makes a lot of sense, and is similar to the "bioglass" concept that Novamin is based on. You rub it on your teeth and simply let it sit there overnight. It's supposedly safe to swallow if it's the fluoride free version. Can't hurt to have your mouth bathing in calcium/phosphate overnight.

I forgot about vitamin K2. Likely very important as well.

Tonight I might try just using the magnesium oil again to brush my teeth, and use some of that MI paste, if only to back down on the fluoride for a while. Last I checked, the fluoride free tooth mousse was harder to find than the fluoridated version, but I think it's still available on eBay.

I've been quite concerned about my teeth lately and have been relying on Novamin, with seemingly good results. My understanding is the bioglass layer is just temporary, that it doesn't actual rebuild the tooth enamel but does create a barrier that can last a day or two, like tooth armor.

I have not tried the Biomin but they make it sound like it's much better than Novamin. I'm skeptical but will give it a try once I run out of the Sensodyne I have.

For years I just used the magnesium oil, and my dentist was impressed with how clean my teeth looked. Not sure where I got the idea to use magnesium chloride brine to brush my teeth. But it works very well.

 

[baccheion]

“Teeth are very similar to bones, so it's interesting that treating male or female rats with estrogen increases their incidence of tooth decay, and removing their gonads was found to decrease the incidence (Muhler and Shafer, 1952). Supplementing them with thyroid hormone decreased the incidence of cavities in both males and females (Bixler, et al., 1957)." - Ray Peat

Also I recently increased my calcium to phosphate ratio to over 2:1 and its doing wonders for my teeth. Large amounts of phosphate with very little calcium is how Ray said he lost some of his teeth... when he was eating almost only wheat germ for an extended period of time.

Fluoride can be avoided, but then the need to maintain mineral/calcium and fat-soluble vitamin sufficiency goes up.

 

[schultz]

I forgot to mention "Tooth Mousse," or "MI Paste," or "Recaldent," which is a calcium/phosphate paste you can use. You can get it fluoride-free if you want. The "plus" version has fluoride in it.

As far as I can tell, cheese does the same thing as "Recaldent". The CPP-ACP that is in "Recaldent" and "Tooth Mousse" is derived from dairy. I haven't figured out if the cheese needs to be digested for the stuff in it to be useful to the teeth in a similar way as those products you named, but there is some evidence it works without being digested. Cheese is also a very useful food in that it actually prevents any potential acidity caused by sucrose. The pH of the saliva can actually rise after eating cheese.

A note about the second study posted: This is very interesting, and I think I've posted it before on the forum, but the kids in this study were given chocolate and their saliva pH was tested. The baseline pH values varied between the kids and ranged from 6.4-7.4, which is a huge difference. It says this in the study, which is quite fascinating...

"In the present study, a shallow drop in pH (acidic) was seen in 70% of subjects and is consistent with Stephan’s observations that sugar containing foods cause a rapid drop in plaque (oral) pH. This shallow pH response to chocolate maybe attributed to the difference in the method of assessing oral pH since, most studies assessed plaque pH. However, in 30% of children no change in pH was detected. The probable reason for this lack in change in salivary pH maybe because their resting salivary pH was higher than 7.0 thus, had better buffering capacity and was similar to Birkhed’s findings."

So 30% of these kids were able to eat chocolate and their saliva alone could buffer against any rise in acid. As we know, pH needs to fall below 5.5 to cause demineralization, and the people sitting closer to the 6.4 baseline pH are a lot closer to the 5.5 value.

Comparative evaluation of enamel remineralization potential of processed cheese, calcium phosphate-based synthetic agent, and a fluoride-containing... - PubMed - NCBI
"Recently, the cariostatic properties of cheese have been the subject of intensive research. Processed cheese is hypoacidogenic, prevents demineralization, and enhances remineralization. Remineralization of dairy products is attributed to casein. Casein is one of the two major proteins in milk and accounts for approximately 80% of total protein. Goodness of casein peptide has been commercialized using its extract named casein phosphopeptide (CPP) in various remineralizing agents available in the market."

"Out of all commonly consumed dairy products, cheese was chosen to be one of the experimental agents in this study because Ca, P, and pH levels of plaque rise maximum with the use of cheese as compared to other dairy products."

"Results of this study revealed that both quantitative and qualitative effects obtained after cheese application were at par with those obtained after CPP-ACP application."

"Cheese as a protective food has achieved its resonance with evidence of its beneficial effects other than remineralization as it is rich in casein and whey proteins. It protects enamel by its natural CPP, stimulation of salivation, and enhancement of plaque Ca levels and hence acts to reduce demineralization and enhance remineralization."

Effect of Chewing Paneer and Cheese on Salivary Acidogenicity: A Comparative Study
Casein phosphopeptides released by the proteolysis of cheese following intake lead to the formation of casein phosphopeptide-calcium phosphate complexes (CPP-CP) which increase calcium and phosphate in plaque thereby increasing its pH. This maybe cited as the probable reason for recording higher pH values with paneer as it had a higher protein and Ca/PO4 content as compared to processed cheese. Cheese may also protect against caries by reducing the adherence of mutans streptococci to tooth surfaces. Lipids in cheese may be protective by forming a coating on enamel surfaces which can reduce demineralization of tooth enamel surfaces and/ or by an antibacterial action of fatty acids.

The substrate that causes a prolonged acidic pH is more detrimental to the teeth than its sugar content alone. In this study it was found that the fall in salivary pH caused by consuming chocolate reaching a maximum at 5 minutes and it took 60 minutes to revert to baseline values indicating the prolonged deleterious effect of chocolate consumption. The fall in salivary pH was rapidly reversed when followed by eating paneer and cheese and this protective effect reached a maximum at 30 minutes. However, even after an hour the salivary pH was higher than baseline values suggesting the prolonged caries protective effect of paneer and cheese.

Comparison of salivary calcium, phosphate and alkaline phosphatase levels in children with early childhood caries after administration of milk, che... - PubMed - NCBI
"Saliva should be saturated with Calcium and Phosphate to affect their bioavailability in amounts adequate for remineralizaton. Milk, Cheese and GC Tooth Mousse applicaton were equally beneficial in saturating the saliva with adequate amount of Calcium and Phosphate."

Effects of processed cheese on human plaque pH and demineralization and remineralization. - PubMed - NCBI
"This study indicates that processed cheese is hypoacidogenic, anti-acidogenic, and prevents demineralization as well as enhances remineralization."

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Arginine + calcium carbonate is uses as proprietary compound "pro-argin" but obviosuly it is no problem to faciliate a paste of mouthwash with these 2 ingredients. Studies look promising for dentin sensitivity-reduction (against pain like potassium nitrate whic is uesd in sensodyne) and for remineralizing. It works without flouride if desired.

Remineralization efficacy of a toothpaste containing 8% arginine and calcium carbonate on enamel surface. - PubMed - NCBI

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1991790213001360

Use of a toothpaste containing 8% arginine and calcium carbonate for immediate and lasting relief of dentin hypersensitivity: A simple and effectiv... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[schultz]

So, according to the mainstream, fluoride is bad for every bone except one specific type of bone: the tooth. Why do you allow them these exceptions?

Teeth are different than the other bones in the body. Dentine and enamel are unique and perform a different function than the rest of the bones do. Bones are slightly flexible, which is probably necessary to withstand stress. Fluoride, I would imagine, would make them to hard and rigid and more prone to fractures. Enamel is the hardest thing in the body though. The dentine below it, which is softer and more flexible, compliments the enamel. Actually metal blades are made this way, with a layer of very hard metal combined with a softer metal core (like a Japanese sword).

 

[ecstatichamster]

I don’t know too much about it, but I don’t think overall body health has a whole lot to do with your oral health, especially not your teeth. Your enemal really only gets nourished from the outside. So apart from perhaps salivary makeup in terms of calcium and phosphor, I don’t think it matters too much. It is very important to not have a dry mouth though. It might matter for gingival tissue and attachment but I never heard of it. Most gingival problems arise from plaque buildup.

Enamel and tooth surface health depend upon internal health to a great extent. Recalcification of teeth and the bacterial migration from the gut into the mouth have everything to do with the health of the enamel and tooth surfaces.

 

[schultz]

Arginine + calcium carbonate is uses as proprietary compound "pro-argin" but obviosuly it is no problem to faciliate a paste of mouthwash with these 2 ingredients. Studies look promising for dentin sensitivity-reduction (against pain like potassium nitrate whic is uesd in sensodyne) and for remineralizing. It works without flouride if desired.

Remineralization efficacy of a toothpaste containing 8% arginine and calcium carbonate on enamel surface. - PubMed - NCBI

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1991790213001360

Use of a toothpaste containing 8% arginine and calcium carbonate for immediate and lasting relief of dentin hypersensitivity: A simple and effectiv... - PubMed - NCBI

Yah the research on this looked promising, and there was quite a bit it seems. From what I remember it actually plugged the micro voids in the teeth or something.

 

[schultz]

@schultz "The metabolism of the tooth itself and the surrounding tissues, and the composition and quantity of the saliva are the most important factors in tooth health. I have known some people with perfect teeth who had grown up in cultures that didn't practice tooth-brushing. US dentistry is dominated by fetishism. It's good to be aware of the abrasive effects of toothpastes, and to remember how thin enamel is. Some foods, such as raw pineapple or acidic foods, are extremely corrosive to the teeth, and should be followed immediately by rinsing or eating foods with a cleaning and neutralizing effect. The alkaline pH of baking soda helps to free protein films from the teeth." - ray peat

I was reading a blog from this dentist recently (he didn't seem remotely familiar with peats work) and he said that he thought that breathing through the nose with the mouth closed was one of the most important things for dental health which makes sense for me considering that local CO2 levels in the mouth would be extremely different if one was mouth breathing vs nose breathing (with mouth shut). Just some other factors to bring into the mix to try to get the whole picture.

Good point about nose breathing.

Ray mentions eating food with a neutralizing effect. Eating fruit with cheese seems like a good idea. Grapes and cheese. I already mentioned earlier that grapes have some beneficial effects for the teeth. The cheese/grape combo would be even better.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have sensitivity to hot and cold. If I have something hot, then anything cold really hurts my teeth, and vice versa.