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Dental Health Advice

Discussion in 'Oral Health' started by catan, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. catan

    catan Member

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    I recently took my 7.5 year old to the dentist, and the dentist told me she would need to do root canal and fillings for two baby molars in the back. She even suggested sedation to get it all the work done at once.

    I had not realized how much decay there was, as my daughter had only mentioned she felt that food sometimes got stuck in the back but does not have any pain nor discomfort. We use homemade toothpaste made of baking soda, calcium carbonate, xylitol, and coconut oil, although admittedly she could be better about brushing.

    I am not sure what to do about the current decay-- is it possible to reverse this with diet and supplements? Or should I get a second opinion?

    I'm sure her nutrition could be improved. She used to be eat quite a lot of eggs and liver, but that's decreased a lot in the past year, also refusing to drink milk and most dairy. She likes meat, potatoes, rice, fruit, dried fruit, and grains. I put bone broth into her food. She gets a lot of sun in the summer months but it's been challenging in the winter. People swear by fermented cod liver oil for dental health, but I thought fish oils were rancid? The dentist assumed she ate a lot of sweets and drank a lot of juice, but that's not the case. She is very skinny and has a huge appetite. I'm finding it challenging getting enough food in her so I don't restrict very much, and need more ideas for calorie-dense foods.

    My 4 year old also had a checkup and her teeth are perfect. She had only weaned a few months ago, so that may be a reason for better teeth? (my older daughter weaned 1.5 years ago) This daughter drinks a lot of juice and loves anything sweet, in addition to more raw milk, cheese, chocolate, liver, eggs. She hardly ever brushes her teeth. Another reason I can think of is my older child had many more vaccines than her sister before I wised up to how harmful they are.

    Anyhow, I would appreciate any advice to get started to helping my older daughter.

    Another issue is, when I had my teeth cleaned this year, I was told I have moderate periodontitis. Because I'm currently pregnant, the dentist said any X-rays and work (cleaning out tartar from the gums, which would involve sedation) would need to wait. When I had my teeth cleaned last year with a different dentist, the dentist mentioned my gums looked inflamed, and sent me on my way with mouthwash. I can't really tell how much to trust this dentist, since I have no other symptoms except occasional bleeding gums (at the same spot) when I brush my teeth. Should I be looking for second opinion? My oral care routine consists of oil pulling with coconut oil, brushing with homemade toothpaste (same as my daughter), rinsing my mouth out after drinking orange juice... I don't floss regularly... Any nutritional deficiency I may have isn't readily apparent to me. My jaw does get very sore after eating too much meat, which I posted about before, and recently learned eating a lot veggies like cabbage has the same sore effect. I don't think it's related to chewing since chewing gum or anything tough does not have the same effect.

    Also, how often are you supposed to get your teeth cleaned? The dentist last year said once a year is sufficient. The dentist this time said twice a year minimum.

    Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading.
     
  2. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I do find flossing helpful.

    It strikes me that you and your daughter may have low calcium and high phosphorus diets. That causes high parathyroid hormone and can leach calcium from teeth and bones. I would suggest you consider more vitamin D3 and K2 and calcium.
     
  3. Nokoni

    Nokoni Member

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    I would try to sterilize the mouth first, for both you and your daughter. I've been experimenting with chlorine dioxide recently (aka MMS), which seems to be harmless while killing most pathogens. Also used as a disinfectant in hospitals. Here's a commercial version formulated for mouth care:
    https://www.amazon.com/Sensitive-De...inse+mouthwash&qid=1549633037&sr=8-2-fkmrnull

    I just mix my own, which is cheap but tastes terrible, so the commercial product may be more palatable.
     
  4. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Dental health is so dicey. If there is no pain I'd do the wait and see approach on baby teeth which is what I'm doing with my son who has a lot of decay, I have not taken him to the dentist yet because I'm afraid of how they will make me feel about his teeth. Plus I think it's traumatic and he already has psychological issues.

    As far as the periodontal issues look up Dr. Ellie's system, it has really helped my gums, I don't even do it all the time anymore as it's so effective. And I had to stop doing xylitol as it was bothering my gut. But first you may need to get the tartar removed so you're starting with a clean slate.
     
  5. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    Dr. Peat always says that germs in teeth start with the gut.

    How is your and your daughter (the one with the issue) in terms of gut health? Are bowel movements regular and often?

    But I think the calcium thing I mentioned is probably the culprit. Your other daughter eats enough cheese and dairy to have a higher calcium to phosphorus ratio and doesn't have this problem.

    It is the obvious thing.
     
  6. OP
    catan

    catan Member

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    Thank you, I will look up Dr. Ellie's system. The dentist told me she can only remove superficial tartar, as going deeper would involve sedation.

    I completely understand about not taking kids to the dentist. This was our first trip at 7.5 and 4 years old. A lot of crying and fear.
     
  7. OP
    catan

    catan Member

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    Thank you, I will start with adding in calcium to our diets.

    My daughter's gut health seems fine. No issues with bloat or gas. Once a day bowel movement without straining. She was born vaginally and never had antibiotics or anything that would have affected it negatively as far as I know. She gained weight very slowly some years (1 lb per year for 2-3 years) I thought she might have a nutrition absorption problem but doctors have always said she looked too healthy for parasites. She's caught up since.

    Mine I'm still working on. I was lactose intolerant for awhile, and now am fine with dairy. I have a tendency to get constipated and a lot of fruit, dried fruit, potatoes help this.
     
  8. OP
    catan

    catan Member

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    Is sterilizing the mouth something to do regularly?
     
  9. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    Does she have any nutrient deficiencies? There are nutrient tests like NutrEval. There's also a comprehensive hormone panel and thyroid panel. And genetic testing, as youth is a good time to catch mutations.

    If her typical diet is entered into Cronometer: Track nutrition & count calories, is anything insufficient? I'm guessing she'll need more calcium, magnesium, and potassium. And fat-soluble vitamins.
     
  10. Nokoni

    Nokoni Member

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    For sure. It kills the pathogens but doesn't last long. The mouth is nearly as dirty as the other end. Here's a short video (from the maker of that commercial product) showing the effects:

    I use it throughout the day and just leave it in my mouth for a bit, including before flossing and brushing. As a sort of happy side effect, it also whitens the teeth. Again, I haven't used the commercial product yet (though I have it on order for my family to try), but I expect it'll be much the same. Note also that some people claim it'll actually repair a cavity and fill it in but I remain skeptical.
     
  11. smith

    smith Member

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    "Through experimenting, I have completely solved similar gum problems using (once a day, before bed) a rinse from home made Liposomal Vitamin C + baking soda. After brushing with regular (non-fluoride) toothpaste I add to a quarter glass of warm water a half teaspoon of baking soda and a table spoon of Liposomal C liquid (made from sodium ascorbate, not ascorbic acid, so it is pH neutral), then rinse with it for couple minutes, with extra attention to the most troubling spots. Within a week, gum sensitivity due to chronic inflammation was gone, and in the six months of use so far, I haven't had the slightest problem even with hard brushes -- the gums have filled in and firmed up quite noticeably. The chronic infection and periodic abscess in one place which dentist insisted only root canal or extraction followed by implant could fix is completely gone without trace (even on X-ray where it was visible before)."
    Receeding gums, what can I do about it? - Dental Health - LONGECITY

    Dr. Levy, the guy who talks about iron filings (which the Snow God of Tanka so rightly despises), sells liposomal ascorbate packets which I use.
    It's often the only thing to do, as tooth decay is caused by bacteria. (Bacteria, not endotoxic gobbledygook, BACTERIA.:punch::punch:). Ehem, excuse my demon. Unless you're eating strongly acidic and fibrous things like pineapple or kiwi which annoyingly get lodged in the gums, flossing is kind of ridiculous when you really think about it
     
  12. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    I'm not sure if calcium is the only factor. My older son hates milk and only eats a small amount of cheese on his noodles and his teeth look perfect. He also hates vegetables, so essentially a high phosphate diet. Whereas my younger son's enamel is practically gone on several of his teeth and his diet is higher in calcium and dairy. The difference is I ate WAPF during his pregnancy so I think too much vitamin A caused his enamel problems.
     
  13. Wolf

    Wolf Member

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    Coconut oil pulling, bamboo silica, boron, and vitamin k go a long way towards having strong teeth and a strong jaw.
     
  14. achillea

    achillea Member

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  15. alywest

    alywest Member

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    Janelle, I noticed that you were on a thread discussing the Calcium Therapy Institute in the past and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that in the end? I've been using the calcium water and just plain water to brush my teeth, I used the special toothbrush for a while, too. I haven't had a checkup in a long time and it's mainly because I know they'll insist on X-rays and there's never a day where I think, man I could really go for some X-rays today! I don't have any pain in my mouth and one cavity I could actually see forming on one of my molars has stayed very small and may have even gotten slightly smaller. My gums used to bleed all the time and now they do right around my period when my estrogen is at it's highest only. I rarely floss and that used to mean I'd have swollen gums if food got stuck between my teeth but I don't really have that issue anymore except, again, during that same time of the month. My teeth feel smooth.
    I don't know, the whole philosophy sounds crazy but it seems to be working! I think I should get a check up just to make sure I don't actually have some major issues. I like how Dr. Ellie says that certain foods have the same effect as xylitol, leaving the mouth microbiome in a good space. I know she said cheese, but also some fruits like berries. I also read recently that blueberries are really good for teeth from a different source, but I notice that teeth whitening ads always focus on coffee and blueberries to make people feel self-conscious about their teeth, but I think I even read on here recently that coffee actually whitens teeth, too. I like to give my kids cheese or blueberries right before bed because they hate brushing! I notice they only have bad breath when they're sick.
     
  16. Bingo

    Bingo Member

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    Dental science is changing rapidly right now and some dentists are offering services that were not available a few years ago. These services are only just being taught in dental school. In pediatric dentistry, Silver Diamine Flouride (SDF) has recently became available and is used for exactly your situation. The name brand product is called Advantage Arrest, and it is sold by Elevate Oral Care. Dr. Jeanette MacLean of Affiliated Children's Dental Specialists is their spoksperson. She has a wonderful educational website. A dentist who uses this technology will paint your childs teeth with SDF several times to arrest the decay, and then place a SMART filling on top to stop the food from trapping. No sedition or even shots are necessary for this procedure. The treated teeth will turn black, but so what. I live in a small town in the south and found a very young fresh out of school pediatric dentist who offers this. Call around and look at the websites of pediatric dentists in your area and get that second opinion. Maybe call Elevate Oral Care and ask for a referral in your area. Many dentists are scared of this product because it will cut their profits and they will have to adopt a new business model. SDF will stop the decay and possible destruction of permanent teeth that come in next to the diseased teeth. It seems to inhibit the formation of cavities in untreated teeth as well. I saw a study that indicated it did not change the mouth flora, so the mechanism is not known. One drop of SDF contains as much fluoride as one liter of city drinking water, if you are concerned about that. By the way, I found a dentist who uses a Cari-Vu 850nm camera to view the inside of my daughters teeth and the dentist used these INSTEAD of x-rays. Cari-Vu will not image a tooth root, but it is excellent for cavity detection. My kids also are able to floss using T.Smile 3rd Generation Dental Flosser. Its a fabulous product. Search amazon for it. Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
     
  17. Bingo

    Bingo Member

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    I had a dentist who said I needed crowns, and another dentist fixed the teeth easily with fillings. Many dentists have to pay for their dental palaces and everything looks like a procedure to them. Get yourself a great toothbrush and water flosser. I swear by these toothbrushes:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YBIO5NU/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NILLYC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    The toddler ones really clean my teeth better than anything I have ever used, and I have bought so many fancy toothbrushes. I also use this water flosser on low:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079ZZMTS7/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    You can put a little salt in the cup and it will kill germs under the gumline. That takes about a minute and will tighten up your gums. Root planing accelerates gum recession in the long run. When you get old, those old injuries come back a bit, including surgeries. I would try just everything before I went down that road. Look for a different dentist......
     
  18. alywest

    alywest Member

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  19. Layne

    Layne Member

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    This is often the case with recommendations for root canals as well. These are $1,000+ procedures, and are far more profitable than simple cavity work. Dentists are people too, and probably have about the same percentage as the general population when it comes to fleecing others for unnecessary work. I always suggest people get a 2nd opinion when looking at major dental work/expenses. Sometimes minor infections--which dentists will sometimes say necessitate a root canal--can be successfully treated w/o a root canal.
     
  20. Energizer

    Energizer Member

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    I don't have any specific ideas for you, except to repeat Ray Peat's advice on dental visits. He recommended getting dental work done in Mexico (and has his own done there for decades) due to an emphasis on quality and skill rather than speed and profit, paraphrasing him.
     
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