Dental Health Advice

[InChristAlone]

Janelle, I noticed that you were on a thread discussing the Calcium Therapy Institute in the past and I was wondering what your thoughts were on that in the end? I've been using the calcium water and just plain water to brush my teeth, I used the special toothbrush for a while, too. I haven't had a checkup in a long time and it's mainly because I know they'll insist on X-rays and there's never a day where I think, man I could really go for some X-rays today! I don't have any pain in my mouth and one cavity I could actually see forming on one of my molars has stayed very small and may have even gotten slightly smaller. My gums used to bleed all the time and now they do right around my period when my estrogen is at it's highest only. I rarely floss and that used to mean I'd have swollen gums if food got stuck between my teeth but I don't really have that issue anymore except, again, during that same time of the month. My teeth feel smooth.
I don't know, the whole philosophy sounds crazy but it seems to be working! I think I should get a check up just to make sure I don't actually have some major issues. I like how Dr. Ellie says that certain foods have the same effect as xylitol, leaving the mouth microbiome in a good space. I know she said cheese, but also some fruits like berries. I also read recently that blueberries are really good for teeth from a different source, but I notice that teeth whitening ads always focus on coffee and blueberries to make people feel self-conscious about their teeth, but I think I even read on here recently that coffee actually whitens teeth, too. I like to give my kids cheese or blueberries right before bed because they hate brushing! I notice they only have bad breath when they're sick.

I was using the products for a while and it seemed like they helped but they are kinda pricey for what you get so I lost interest. Glad you are having success

 

[alywest]

I was using the products for a while and it seemed like they helped but they are kinda pricey for what you get so I lost interest. Glad you are having success

Ok, that makes sense! Thanks!

 

[Dayman]

are they really baby molars? they're going to fall out anyway.
Xylitol is strong but non selective so I wouldn't use too much
I like to use very small amounts of xylitol and rinse well, if I find a cold coming on I use a little bit extra xylitol in the form of a toothpaste
I also recomment use of essential oils particularly clove. Grapefruit, lemon, cinnamon, eucalyptus also work well
neem mouthwashes are good
Savacol mouthwash is okay in for short term use (a week or so until you get it under control). It starts staining teeth when used for too long
here is a good technique video

I also use a water flosser before brushing instead of regular floss
finally Ray Peat mentions in one of his interviews that cortisol is correlated with dental health so gettingany stress under control will helpo

rinsing out the mouth with a mixture of water and baking soda after food and particularly anything acidic

 

[Dayman]

sorry if my post came off as too prescriptive these are just things I'm doing alongside occasional use of strengthening paste(calcium)

 

[jzeno]

@catan

I second other's suggestions: Vitamin D and Vitamin K--possibly a little E now and again and lots of natural Vitamin C in the form of tons of OJ--as much as your kid can stomach

Vitamin K: https://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Resea...=UTF8&qid=1549949888&sr=8-4&keywords=thorne+k
Vitamin K (option 2): IdeaLabs Online Store - Cosmetic Raw Ingredients CTRL+F "Kuinone" (name of the product; Click the product name for a thread on this forum about the product)
Vitamin D3: Ray Peat says 20,00 IU topically per day--I think he uses Carlson's. But I don't that's important

Thorne suggest 15 mg per day (a lot) for extreme cases (for adults, FYI--not sure about children). But there isn't a toxic level (again, for adults--you'll need to research small children), so I say try K and if you see results, then titrate upward.

Cheese is good. I will suggest this allergenic free cheese: The Danny Roddy Weblog on Instagram: “"Tillamook white cheddar, aged 2 years, has natural ingredients, and Reggiano is the other one that I have confidence in. A big European…” (Tillamook Extra Sharp Cheddar--White, not dyed yellow)

Ray Peat suggests tons of OJ for Vitamin C (good for Liver, and teeth building) and minerals

I don't get my teeth cleaned. I hadn't for several, several years and when I went recently the dentist was surprised how minimal plaque had built up and nothing seemed strange so he left me to myself.

I recommend an electric toothbrush (cheap Wal-Mart Equate ones--they have the 2 minute timer). My teeth have never been smoother and cleaner and I only got one a few weeks ago.

I used to suffer from temperature issues but Vitamin K and huuuuge doses of Calcium through cheese and milk have helped reduce that dramatically, so I'm making progress.

I eat around 10 oz cheese per day plus 16-ish oz of 1 % lactose-free milk (building up a tolerance), 44+ oz of OJ, 20k units Vitamin D3, and 5-ish mg of Vitamin K (don't worry too much about these numbers just make sure the kids are getting more than the RDI of Calcium. Use cronometer.com to track)

 

[catan]

Thank you for all this. I've upped my milk and cheese and OJ intake. This hasn't been easy for my daughter. She dislikes milk and does not drink anything besides water. She nursed till she was 6 years old, and since then any sort of milk needs to be forced. She does consume some cheese but I can't imagine it's anywhere near what could make a difference. Working on having her consume more bone broth now.

@catan

I second other's suggestions: Vitamin D and Vitamin K--possibly a little E now and again and lots of natural Vitamin C in the form of tons of OJ--as much as your kid can stomach

Vitamin K: https://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Resea...=UTF8&qid=1549949888&sr=8-4&keywords=thorne+k
Vitamin K (option 2): IdeaLabs Online Store - Cosmetic Raw Ingredients CTRL+F "Kuinone" (name of the product; Click the product name for a thread on this forum about the product)
Vitamin D3: Ray Peat says 20,00 IU topically per day--I think he uses Carlson's. But I don't that's important

Thorne suggest 15 mg per day (a lot) for extreme cases (for adults, FYI--not sure about children). But there isn't a toxic level (again, for adults--you'll need to research small children), so I say try K and if you see results, then titrate upward.

Cheese is good. I will suggest this allergenic free cheese: The Danny Roddy Weblog on Instagram: “"Tillamook white cheddar, aged 2 years, has natural ingredients, and Reggiano is the other one that I have confidence in. A big European…” (Tillamook Extra Sharp Cheddar--White, not dyed yellow)

Ray Peat suggests tons of OJ for Vitamin C (good for Liver, and teeth building) and minerals

I don't get my teeth cleaned. I hadn't for several, several years and when I went recently the dentist was surprised how minimal plaque had built up and nothing seemed strange so he left me to myself.

I recommend an electric toothbrush (cheap Wal-Mart Equate ones--they have the 2 minute timer). My teeth have never been smoother and cleaner and I only got one a few weeks ago.

I used to suffer from temperature issues but Vitamin K and huuuuge doses of Calcium through cheese and milk have helped reduce that dramatically, so I'm making progress.

I eat around 10 oz cheese per day plus 16-ish oz of 1 % lactose-free milk (building up a tolerance), 44+ oz of OJ, 20k units Vitamin D3, and 5-ish mg of Vitamin K (don't worry too much about these numbers just make sure the kids are getting more than the RDI of Calcium. Use cronometer.com to track)

 

[catan]

My daughter didn't get a root canal done. The dentist was strongly recommending general anesthesia so to not scare her off dental procedures forever. Due to the timing of that visit and other things going on, nothing was done. She switched to using an electric toothbrush, rinsing her mouth with Closys before bed, and more supplementation of vit D/K2, somewhat drinking more bone broth and eating more cheese.

A few days ago, her tooth was bothering her so much she couldn't sleep and was up crying. My daughter is extremely sensitive to pain, and over the last couple months she's always insisted she didn't have any pain in her tooth. We went to a holistic dental clinic, and both her baby molars have deep cavities, only one that is visible without X-ray. This clinic recommends extraction for the one that's very decayed, and said the other one can possibly be saved with a baby root canal if that's what I would prefer. Their practice does not do root canal because of their philosophy that root canal doesn't get rid of the infection, and would recommend extraction for that second tooth as well. An orthodontist would then need to put in spacers since the permanent molars don't come in till 9-12 years old, and she's only turning 8.

So that's where we are now.

 

[baccheion]

Thank you for all this. I've upped my milk and cheese and OJ intake. This hasn't been easy for my daughter. She dislikes milk and does not drink anything besides water. She nursed till she was 6 years old, and since then any sort of milk needs to be forced. She does consume some cheese but I can't imagine it's anywhere near what could make a difference. Working on having her consume more bone broth now.

There are other options beside milk. If consuming, raw is preferable. As good quality is hard to find, maybe it can be simulated with grass-fed whole milk consumed with digestive enzymes (including lactase) and probiotics. You could even look up the strains present in raw milk and get those. Milk is better consumed alone away from the last meal and 4 hours before the next.

Milk is mentioned for oral health due to presence of calcium, fat-solubles, and IGF-1 enhancers. All can be increased via many means.

 

[Bingo]

Oh please look for a pediatric dentist that offers Silver Diamine Flouride. For your daughters sake. It is exactly for this situation and may offer her instant relief and prevent the root canals/extractions. SDF for the win.

 

[catan]

Thank you for reminding me! I re-read your previous post. There's a couple in the area that offers this.

Oh please look for a pediatric dentist that offers Silver Diamine Flouride. For your daughters sake. It is exactly for this situation and may offer her instant relief and prevent the root canals/extractions. SDF for the win.

 

[Bingo]

Good luck to you Catan. One of my daughters baby teeth is half gone! Two dentists said SDF absolutley would not help, but then neither of them had ever used it. They didn’t have it and wouldn’t consider it. I was asking all around and a mother with five kids referred me to her pediatric dentist. This mothers oldest child’s teeth were in far worse shape than anything I had ever imagined, but SDF saved them. The young dentist who uses SDF regularly just rolled her eyes when i told her about the other dentists. She painted SDF on the cavity and the tooth hardened right up. The cavity is stopped and the baby tooth will fall out as normal. Hopefully you will have the same success. Certainly it is worth a try before they resort to sedition.

 

[achillea]

I find water flosser to be too strong, remember we are not washing a car we are washing very sensitive tissue. After numerous brands and none acceptable we finally found Vitajet by Orajet. It has a few interchangeable tips and a deep pocket tip sold separately. The lowest pressure is very nice. It is a bit pricey but I could have bought three Vitajets with the others I have discarded.

 

[baccheion]

More important than even brushing is salivary flow. More saliva = more cleaning = faster alkalization. Dry mouth is problematic, as it prevents cleaning and remineralization actions from saliva. Glycerine-free toothpaste may also be a good idea, as then their isn't a film preventing remineralization.

Brush with salt + baking soda (Uncle Harry's Natural Toothpaste, for example), consume enough minerals and fat-solubles, and floss.

 

[Bingo]

Good luck to you Catan. One of my daughters baby teeth is half gone! Two dentists said SDF absolutley would not help, but then neither of them had ever used it. They didn’t have it and wouldn’t consider it. I was asking all around and a mother with five kids referred me to her pediatric dentist. This mothers oldest child’s teeth were in far worse shape than anything I had ever imagined, but SDF saved them. The young dentist who uses SDF regularly just rolled her eyes when i told her about the other dentists. She painted SDF on the cavity and the tooth hardened right up. The cavity is stopped and the baby tooth will fall out as normal. Hopefully you will have the same success. Certainly it is worth a try before they resort to sedition.

Can a person edit a post? I meant to say sedating her, and not of course sedition.

 

[catan]

Bingo, how bad was the decay in your daughter's teeth for SDF to work?

Good luck to you Catan. One of my daughters baby teeth is half gone! Two dentists said SDF absolutley would not help, but then neither of them had ever used it. They didn’t have it and wouldn’t consider it. I was asking all around and a mother with five kids referred me to her pediatric dentist. This mothers oldest child’s teeth were in far worse shape than anything I had ever imagined, but SDF saved them. The young dentist who uses SDF regularly just rolled her eyes when i told her about the other dentists. She painted SDF on the cavity and the tooth hardened right up. The cavity is stopped and the baby tooth will fall out as normal. Hopefully you will have the same success. Certainly it is worth a try before they resort to sedition.

 

[catan]

The dentist we had seen would not form a treatment plan until we have seen an orthodontist to discuss what kind of spacer to put in. So they referred us to one, and the whole consultation was basically just trying to persuade us to start orthodontic treatment on her since she was a narrow palate and crowding. I wasn't planning on doing anything on this front at all but I haven't thought much about it.

Orthodontics have changed a lot since my time, now they start at age 7 or 8??? I had four permanent teeth extracted for braces around age 11/12, and still didn't have space and had 3 more wisdom teeth extracted in my 20s. Now my teeth are sensitive and a dentist told me this was because I've had braces and sensitivity the long-term effect. Anyway, I am wondering what views you all have towards orthodontic treatment? I had listened to a podcast awhile ago by Dr Steven Lin about reversing dental problems and he mentioned widening the palate. Although clearly her current diet isn't enough to stop her cavities from progressing...

 

[Bingo]

Bingo, how bad was the decay in your daughter's teeth for SDF to work?

Hello Catan, I am not sure how to grade the cavity. A part of her tooth was decayed away. About half. Curiously, she did not complain about it hurting. The mother of 5 who referred me to this dentist said her son’s permanent tooth (and other teeth) were very badly decayed and hurting him. The dentist treated him with SDF, and waited about two months before another SDF application and placing a glass filling. The boy had no pain after the first application of SDF, and never even needed a shot! His mom was told he needed a root canal or extraction, so I think there is hope for your daughters case. I hope you can find a dentist to try it.

 

[Cirion]

I am having problems with my teeth lately myself. I have decided I am going to try to heal my latest cavity rather than fill it, but my appointment is already set so I'll tell them to let me try to fix it on my own for a couple of months and checkup on it again. I'll gauge progress by how sensitive it feels over time.

For now I'm trying out chlorine dioxide mouthwash (Verified this works great! No sensitivity, and my teeth are sensitive to EVERYTHING right now, so this is huge! Xylitol gums during the day (Mild sensitivity to this but not bad) and of course flossing and brushing every day. Brushing is bothering me still. I got some xylitol based toothpaste but it doesn't seem to work for me. I think I will go back to Tom's of maine fluoride free, that seemed to agree with me.

I see a lot of people recommend fluoride - how do you reconcile that with the fact fluoride is a major goitrogen?

 

[catan]

This gives me some hope. A mom I talked to recently said SDF is only used for minor cavities or cavities just starting to form, and not for bad ones.

Hello Catan, I am not sure how to grade the cavity. A part of her tooth was decayed away. About half. Curiously, she did not complain about it hurting. The mother of 5 who referred me to this dentist said her son’s permanent tooth (and other teeth) were very badly decayed and hurting him. The dentist treated him with SDF, and waited about two months before another SDF application and placing a glass filling. The boy had no pain after the first application of SDF, and never even needed a shot! His mom was told he needed a root canal or extraction, so I think there is hope for your daughters case. I hope you can find a dentist to try it.

 

[danishispsychic]

I have to agree with the calcium thing. I did not drink milk for a long time , just cream in my morning coffee. My teeth had the same thing happen all of a sudden. Root canals, back molars had issues. Since adding back dairy, doing a D and K oil supplement, adding food grade DE, they have become really healthy. At one point they are almost transparent. Also gelatin/ collagen helped me too.