Questionable Safety Of Dmso

[haidut]

+1 in support of Haidut

I suffered a reaction related to one of the products with DMSO, but was aware of the risk and wish to stress that it was my risk to take.

Regulation is a very tough issue - and my stance could vary widely depending on the topic, the scale, and upon who is doing the regulating. Without delving too deep into these questions though I would express that I enjoy my freedom in this matter.

Very grateful for the the time and effort Haidut (as well as others) have put into this community.

Thank you! Means a lot to me!

 

[tomisonbottom]

I'm incredibly thankful for the ability to purchase pure supplements from someone I trust. We all need to educate ourselves on any product we take, whether it's Haidut's or anything else off of a store shelf. That's part of Peat's philosophy. Often when I email him, he doesn't give a straight answer; just pieces to the puzzle. He wants us to to educate and intuitively treat ourselves, not just follow steps 1.2.3. like so many blogs and websites instruct.

Haidut's countless hours of work and information have been invaluable on my journey to health. This is not the 1st time I've seen him attacked with the argument that we should question him because he's selling products. OF COURSE he's selling the products. Is he supposed to make them for free for all of us? He's solved a very real problem: lack of access to pure quality supplements. I don't have the time, nor the education to formulate these solutions myself, so I am more than happy to pay for his.

I got violently sick when I first experimented with pregnenolone from another source due to impure product, but with Haidut's Pregnenolone, I feel euphoric and strong. I would have given up on the idea of pregnenolone altogether if I hadn't come across his products.

 

[Makrosky]

tomisonbottom same feeling here. What a coincidence, I was just answering another thread commenting on how an oral prenenolone didn't work quite good for me but haidut's one worked like a charm.

The products are superb quality. All of them feel much more gentler on the stomach that all the industry crap.

The important thing is to expose criticism in a constructive way. I don't think haidut is a closed minded guy who will ignore concerns about safety of compounds. Quite the opposite.

 

[SarahBeara]

I am so incredibly grateful to this forum and to haidut for his supplements. They have improved my life immensely and I NEVER once thought or got the impression it was a money spinner endeavour.

Regarding the price question, well that just determines the level of investment in ingredient quality, dosage etc that any maker of these kind of products would need to know. Georgi was the first person to tell you where you could source these things for yourself, but given the hassle in obtaining a small quantity for personal use, I'm glad Georgi takes on that hassle.

I thought this was a serious discussion about an interesting topic. Turns out it's just a hatchet job. Poor form.

 

[haidut]

I'm incredibly thankful for the ability to purchase pure supplements from someone I trust. We all need to educate ourselves on any product we take, whether it's Haidut's or anything else off of a store shelf. That's part of Peat's philosophy. Often when I email him, he doesn't give a straight answer; just pieces to the puzzle. He wants us to to educate and intuitively treat ourselves, not just follow steps 1.2.3. like so many blogs and websites instruct.

Haidut's countless hours of work and information have been invaluable on my journey to health. This is not the 1st time I've seen him attacked with the argument that we should question him because he's selling products. OF COURSE he's selling the products. Is he supposed to make them for free for all of us? He's solved a very real problem: lack of access to pure quality supplements. I don't have the time, nor the education to formulate these solutions myself, so I am more than happy to pay for his.

I got violently sick when I first experimented with pregnenolone from another source due to impure product, but with Haidut's Pregnenolone, I feel euphoric and strong. I would have given up on the idea of pregnenolone altogether if I hadn't come across his products.

Thank you!

 

[haidut]

tomisonbottom same feeling here. What a coincidence, I was just answering another thread commenting on how an oral prenenolone didn't work quite good for me but haidut's one worked like a charm.

The products are superb quality. All of them feel much more gentler on the stomach that all the industry crap.

The important thing is to expose criticism in a constructive way. I don't think haidut is a closed minded guy who will ignore concerns about safety of compounds. Quite the opposite.

Yep, I would love an open discussion about pros and cons on DMSO. However, after the first post, it quickly turned into a "I don't like haidut, ban/burn that witch" rather than staying a discussion about DMSO.

 

[Drareg]

It's basic economy ,somebody can produce something you don't have time to do yourself , you pay a fee.
Makes the world go round.

In saying that you don't ask for grass to be cut if it doesn't need cutting, you might have a reaction if all the grass is gone when you come back.
Farmermark need to post his thyroid labs before complaining about a thyroid supplement he is taking and reacting too. Also histamine , I am more sensitive to histamine therefore likely to react to DMSO therefore I don't take it.
Strawman.

 

[sm1693]

Yep, I would love an open discussion about pros and cons on DMSO.

I would like to see this discussion. DMSO has been a potent mood killer for me and thus I have avoided it. Same with ethanol. But, some people are clearly doing well with these.

The recent addition of this emodin supplement is a game-changer. I have been waiting for an emodin supplement for a long time and, as far as I know, the only solvent for emodin is DMSO, so it is that or a pure powder version, which is not commercially available.

 

[tara]

DMSO has been a potent mood killer for me and thus I have avoided it.

Hi sm1963,
Do you want to mention what dosages you've tried that seemed to give you bad effects, what concentration, and whether it was oral or transdermal?

 

[keith]

Georgi,

Count me in among those greatful for your posts and products. I hope you know how much sharing your knowledge and connections really helps others.

I think we should all have a healthy skepticism when considering new supplements, dietary protocols, etc. This skepticism should include even those we think of as the experts, Ray Peat included. He doesn't know everything, and may even be wrong about a thing or two, and I think he would be the first to say so. None of us is perfect.

However, I think it will be evident to anyone who has spent any significant time reading through the forum that you are genuinely concerned with gaining and sharing knowledge and truth, not about winning arguments or trying to manipulate others to accept your views. That is what real science is about, and why so many of us value your input.

OK...enough of the We Love Haidut Fest. Get back to work and whip us up a new concoction with extra DMSO.

 

[Peatri Dish]

Yep, I would love an open discussion about pros and cons on DMSO. However, after the first post, it quickly turned into a "I don't like haidut, ban/burn that witch" rather than staying a discussion about DMSO.

Yes, agreed. This is unfortunate. I was hoping for a discussion of dmso. I've taken resonsibility for my own health and come here to be exposed to experience of others and the science that they've come across in their research. Principles above personalities, people. It is Easy to see where members stand with minimal investigation. These attacks take us off course.

 

[haidut]

I would like to see this discussion. DMSO has been a potent mood killer for me and thus I have avoided it. Same with ethanol. But, some people are clearly doing well with these.

The recent addition of this emodin supplement is a game-changer. I have been waiting for an emodin supplement for a long time and, as far as I know, the only solvent for emodin is DMSO, so it is that or a pure powder version, which is not commercially available.

Lapodin uses both DMSO and ethanol. Thanks for brinding up the mood changing effects of DMSO. Have you used more than one supplement in DMSO to make sure it is the DMSO and not the ingredients causing this somehow?

 

[haidut]

Georgi,

Count me in among those greatful for your posts and products. I hope you know how much sharing your knowledge and connections really helps others.

I think we should all have a healthy skepticism when considering new supplements, dietary protocols, etc. This skepticism should include even those we think of as the experts, Ray Peat included. He doesn't know everything, and may even be wrong about a thing or two, and I think he would be the first to say so. None of us is perfect.

However, I think it will be evident to anyone who has spent any significant time reading through the forum that you are genuinely concerned with gaining and sharing knowledge and truth, not about winning arguments or trying to manipulate others to accept your views. That is what real science is about, and why so many of us value your input.

OK...enough of the We Love Haidut Fest. Get back to work and whip us up a new concoction with extra DMSO.

Lol, thanks, I am on it. The next supplement will be in oil and tocopherols since it would be fat-soluble like EstroBan. But I have a few in mind that can use some DMSO

 

[haidut]

Yes, agreed. This is unfortunate. I was hoping for a discussion of dmso. I've taken resonsibility for my own health and come here to be exposed to experience of others and the science that they've come across in their research. Principles above personalities, people. It is Easy to see where members stand with minimal investigation. These attacks take us off course.

By all means, if anybody is aware of studies on any organism using DMSO in concentrations similar to my supplements please bring them forward. Taking a full dose of the DMSO supplements I sell you give a person at most about 700mg (0.7g) DMSO daily and in these very low doses it seems that DMSO would be pro-metabolic. See below.
DMSO, even at very low doses, increases respiration in brain | Ray Peat Forum

 

[zooma]

Glandular thyroid doesn't contain any active hormone, and has to be digested to release the hormone, and I'm not sure what effect DMSO will have on the proteolysis when it's ingested, but it's probably harmless when taken with food.

@haidut this is one interesting thing that OP mentioned.

 

[haidut]

@haidut this is one interesting thing that OP mentioned.

Peat is right about regular NDT but not about my product. PM me for more details.

 

[sm1693]

I tried DMSO briefly in one or 2 of haiduts supps, and a few times solo as an experiment prior to the following:

I used it as a solvent to liquidize my favorite powdered supplements. Ive tried it with aspirin and flowers of sulfur because both are difficult to make soluble. I dont remember the exact amounts, but it was based around the amount of powder I wanted to solubilize, not based around DMSO dosage.

Ive used high quality vodka as a preservative/solubility agent for B vitamin preparation. Some amount of water was always added to the vodka and DMSO preparations.

All of the above was only used topically and I reacted poorly moodwise to everything. Im very sensitive to all food and supplements.

 

[tara]

Principles above personalities, people.

 

[cdg]

Another big thank you! If you read my email exchanges with Mark (look for previous post with attachments mark1 and mark2) you will see that this is exactly what I said to him as well. In the absense of perfect/definitive knowledge I have to resort to a combination of public opinion of safety (FDA), published research (PubMed), and personal experimentation (on myself, friends, family, etc). I don't claim 100% safety, but if we have to be fair there are quite a few things that we ingest in a daily basis that are in our food and water and we really do not know if they are safe for us. Namely, there are compounds in food for which the presumption of safety is just that, in the face of studies showing harm. Carrageenan is a very good example, approved for use even in organic food.
DMSO has the added plus that there ARE studies looking at its safety and while no study will be perfect, a large number of diverse studies from authors that have nothing to do with each other and no known conflicts of interest, and no financial interest in DMSO, gives some indication of safety. DMSO also has a chemical structure and effects on cells and metabolism that suggest benefit. Like anything else, including presumably safe ingredients like riboflavin and aspirin, there is always the potential for side effects, which I cannot fully rule out given my limited resources and knowledge. I concluded my email exchange by saying that if Mark really has such strong reservations about DMSO he should not be using our products. At that point, I offered him a refund for the second time (the first time he ignored me), issued the refund and thought that the matter is resolved. Boy, was I wrong!
Finally, everybody reading this thread will immediately notice that while the thread's title is ostensibly about toxicity of DMSO, the posts by Mark so far are mostly about me and his perceived problems with me and my supplements. I actually did ask him this question in my first or second email, as I have encountered thousands of times before that whenever somebody is that upset it is always something personal and never about a product or service (which were refunded btw).
So, hopefully this thread will shed some light on my transgressions that led to this.
Once again, thanks to everybody for their support and honest feedback. It is priceless for me both as an individual and vitamin "peddler":)

There is always a possibility of a troll in such matters - just a thought.

 

[milk_lover]

If I donate one dollar to a charity anytime haidut helps or educates me, I would be giving thousands of dollars! I don't understand those personal attacks. I am pretty sure if I try his supplements (our costumes have very stringent rules), my health improvement will accelerate rapidly. Very creative and pure products! haidut, you are the MAN! go on brother :)