farmerMark
Member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 17
Hello, I'm a new member. I had to join at this time in order to present some important information about DMSO. I used some Tyromax a while ago and every time it caused a sting on my arm. Eventually the area began to show inflammation and dead skin. I reasoned that it might be from the DMSO and I asked the vendor and he said yes, just dilute it with water. The more I thought about the effect the more I wondered about DMSO. DMSO is a solvent that penetrates the skin and pulls in most things mixed with it. I thought there might be a problem with the idea of a strange chemical penetrating my skin and stinging and killing skin cells on the way. Obviously the chemical makes its way to the blood stream. This didn't seem like something that was "doing no harm." So began a little investigation about DMSO.
I first asked the vendor about the safety. He stated that the FDA has approved this chemical for interstitial cystitis. This was the majority of his proof of safety. At the time I argued with him about quoting the FDA knowing what Dr. Peat thinks of this arm of the pharmaceutical industry. So I researched further.
I was curious what the FDA actually thought of DMSO. In my search I found an FDA Alert 62-06, which states that interstitial cystitis is the only use DMSO is approved for. There is no topical application of DMSO that is approved by the FDA. The vendor would not comment on this point. I hate to use the FDA as evidence but in this case even they would not approve this use.
The vendor's other evidence of safety was that he had tested it on himself and some friends. I could not accept a testimonial from a vendor as proof. The vendor also would remark that the dose of DMSO involved in the FDA use was much greater than what is used in Tyromax, and no side effects. Most side effects are determined by taking a dose for a few days and noting any outward signs of toxicity. Unless there is a proper study, long term, that is testing only DMSO, I will not accept that it is proven safe. Recall that PUFA's can affect you sub clinically, for decades, until perhaps a heart attack. There is no long-term study regarding the safety of topical DMSO.
I present in this post credible references regarding the safety of DMSO. Some of the conclusions are:
"The ability of DMSO to damage neurons in dissociated cultures indicates that the toxicity likely results from a cellular effect."
"Concentrations (DMSO) between .5 and 6% resulted in stereocilia damage, hair cell swelling and dose dependent loss of hair cells." "Some studies have shown that DMSO causes an increase in extracellular sodium, potassium and calcium. DMSO has diverse effects on ion transporters and pumps." "Although clinically beneficial in some situations, DMSO can have systemic side effects such as diarrhea, vomiting, bronco spasm, hypertension, and pulmonary edema. These effects appear to be dose dependent."
"Properties that are considered to be particularly important to its therapeutic and toxic effects include: ......ant cholinesterase activity; and DMSO induced histamine release by mast cells.....Combinations of DMSO with other toxic agents probably constitute its greatest toxic potential."
"Dimethyl sulfoxide inhibits acetylcholinesterase....."
"We reported previously that DMSO potentiates both the increased taurine excretion in rats and the lethal effects produced by benzene and other aromatic hydrocarbons."
"DMSO's super efficient through-the-skin delivery means that it has to be extremely pure to be safe. Any impurities or toxins present will be carried into the bloodstream. In addition, substances already on the skin when DMSO is applied, such as body lotions, will be carried into the blood." " How about cosmetics, cleaning products, fake fragrances, dish soap, pesticides, and whatever bacteria happen to be hanging around that day?" "Human skin is designed to not carry substances easily into the body for good reason."
There is the possibility of dangerous bacteria or viruses that are on your skin to be pulled in. Even dead bacteria that has been pulled in must be dealt with by the body.
"Toxicity was confirmed in vitro in a retinal neuronal cell line, at DMSO concentrations>1%." "These results highlight safety concerns of using low concentrations of DMSO as a solvent for in vivo administration and in biological assays."
"However, lower concentrations of DMSO may not always be safe in cell proliferation assays either. There are reports suggesting that DMSO at low concentrations actually stimulates the proliferation of some cell types; for example at 100 uM (0.00078% m/V) DMSO increased proliferation of OVCAR-3, SK-OV-3 and Caov-3 ovarian cancer cell lines (PMID:122713137)."
"These results suggest that mitochondrial impairment is a primary event in DMSO-induced astrocyte toxicity."
Please read the entire context in the references below.
The point I am trying to make is not that DMSO is harmful, but that it has not been proven safe. These references imply that there are serious concerns that need more study. I am not going to be a lab rat. In order for me to use something in a health supplement it better be proven safe. That's a big reason why we are here. The vendor exclaimed what would I have him do, run a million dollar test? If it's unproven, yes.
Finally, I contacted Dr. Peat and asked him what he thought of DMSO and that I was using a natural desiccated thyroid with it, topically. His response, "About 45 years ago I was interested in the effects of DMSO (on cell water and differentiation and catalysis), and experimented with it for a while, but I saw it cause some serious rashes, and decided its possible beneficial effects weren't clear enough to keep me studying it. Its effects on the acting microfilaments and cholinesterase suggest that local exposure to a high concentration could be harmful to some people. Glandular thyroid doesn't contain any active hormone, and has to be digested to release the hormone, and I'm not sure what effect DMSO will have on the proteolysis when it's ingested, but it's probably harmless when taken with food." If I'm reading this right then Tyromax will have no effect, topically.
In conclusion, I would say the questionability of DMSO is a no brainer. And classifying this as an excipient (a la Peat) I would say we have rejected a lot more with a lot less evidence. As for a NDT having to be digested to work, wow. Thanks Dr. Peat.
Cytotoxic effects of dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) on cochlear organotypic cultures, PMC2262105
Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) produces widespread apoptosis in the developing central nervous system, PMC2682536
ref3
ref4
Biological effects of the metabolites of Dimethyl Sulfoxide, Kocsis, Harkaway, Snyder
ref5
ref6
ref7
Unexpected low-dose toxicity of the universal solvent DMSO.pubmed24327606
ResearchGate, Until what percentage does DMSO remain not toxic to cells?
ref10
I first asked the vendor about the safety. He stated that the FDA has approved this chemical for interstitial cystitis. This was the majority of his proof of safety. At the time I argued with him about quoting the FDA knowing what Dr. Peat thinks of this arm of the pharmaceutical industry. So I researched further.
I was curious what the FDA actually thought of DMSO. In my search I found an FDA Alert 62-06, which states that interstitial cystitis is the only use DMSO is approved for. There is no topical application of DMSO that is approved by the FDA. The vendor would not comment on this point. I hate to use the FDA as evidence but in this case even they would not approve this use.
The vendor's other evidence of safety was that he had tested it on himself and some friends. I could not accept a testimonial from a vendor as proof. The vendor also would remark that the dose of DMSO involved in the FDA use was much greater than what is used in Tyromax, and no side effects. Most side effects are determined by taking a dose for a few days and noting any outward signs of toxicity. Unless there is a proper study, long term, that is testing only DMSO, I will not accept that it is proven safe. Recall that PUFA's can affect you sub clinically, for decades, until perhaps a heart attack. There is no long-term study regarding the safety of topical DMSO.
I present in this post credible references regarding the safety of DMSO. Some of the conclusions are:
"The ability of DMSO to damage neurons in dissociated cultures indicates that the toxicity likely results from a cellular effect."
"Concentrations (DMSO) between .5 and 6% resulted in stereocilia damage, hair cell swelling and dose dependent loss of hair cells." "Some studies have shown that DMSO causes an increase in extracellular sodium, potassium and calcium. DMSO has diverse effects on ion transporters and pumps." "Although clinically beneficial in some situations, DMSO can have systemic side effects such as diarrhea, vomiting, bronco spasm, hypertension, and pulmonary edema. These effects appear to be dose dependent."
"Properties that are considered to be particularly important to its therapeutic and toxic effects include: ......ant cholinesterase activity; and DMSO induced histamine release by mast cells.....Combinations of DMSO with other toxic agents probably constitute its greatest toxic potential."
"Dimethyl sulfoxide inhibits acetylcholinesterase....."
"We reported previously that DMSO potentiates both the increased taurine excretion in rats and the lethal effects produced by benzene and other aromatic hydrocarbons."
"DMSO's super efficient through-the-skin delivery means that it has to be extremely pure to be safe. Any impurities or toxins present will be carried into the bloodstream. In addition, substances already on the skin when DMSO is applied, such as body lotions, will be carried into the blood." " How about cosmetics, cleaning products, fake fragrances, dish soap, pesticides, and whatever bacteria happen to be hanging around that day?" "Human skin is designed to not carry substances easily into the body for good reason."
There is the possibility of dangerous bacteria or viruses that are on your skin to be pulled in. Even dead bacteria that has been pulled in must be dealt with by the body.
"Toxicity was confirmed in vitro in a retinal neuronal cell line, at DMSO concentrations>1%." "These results highlight safety concerns of using low concentrations of DMSO as a solvent for in vivo administration and in biological assays."
"However, lower concentrations of DMSO may not always be safe in cell proliferation assays either. There are reports suggesting that DMSO at low concentrations actually stimulates the proliferation of some cell types; for example at 100 uM (0.00078% m/V) DMSO increased proliferation of OVCAR-3, SK-OV-3 and Caov-3 ovarian cancer cell lines (PMID:122713137)."
"These results suggest that mitochondrial impairment is a primary event in DMSO-induced astrocyte toxicity."
Please read the entire context in the references below.
The point I am trying to make is not that DMSO is harmful, but that it has not been proven safe. These references imply that there are serious concerns that need more study. I am not going to be a lab rat. In order for me to use something in a health supplement it better be proven safe. That's a big reason why we are here. The vendor exclaimed what would I have him do, run a million dollar test? If it's unproven, yes.
Finally, I contacted Dr. Peat and asked him what he thought of DMSO and that I was using a natural desiccated thyroid with it, topically. His response, "About 45 years ago I was interested in the effects of DMSO (on cell water and differentiation and catalysis), and experimented with it for a while, but I saw it cause some serious rashes, and decided its possible beneficial effects weren't clear enough to keep me studying it. Its effects on the acting microfilaments and cholinesterase suggest that local exposure to a high concentration could be harmful to some people. Glandular thyroid doesn't contain any active hormone, and has to be digested to release the hormone, and I'm not sure what effect DMSO will have on the proteolysis when it's ingested, but it's probably harmless when taken with food." If I'm reading this right then Tyromax will have no effect, topically.
In conclusion, I would say the questionability of DMSO is a no brainer. And classifying this as an excipient (a la Peat) I would say we have rejected a lot more with a lot less evidence. As for a NDT having to be digested to work, wow. Thanks Dr. Peat.
Cytotoxic effects of dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) on cochlear organotypic cultures, PMC2262105
Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) produces widespread apoptosis in the developing central nervous system, PMC2682536
ref3
ref4
Biological effects of the metabolites of Dimethyl Sulfoxide, Kocsis, Harkaway, Snyder
ref5
ref6
ref7
Unexpected low-dose toxicity of the universal solvent DMSO.pubmed24327606
ResearchGate, Until what percentage does DMSO remain not toxic to cells?
ref10