Safety Of Long-term Use Of DMSO As A Solvent

[meatbag]

I found something today that might help those in question (namely me!) using it. I found it on this site...it seems that Ray is not against using in small amounts as a solvent. Possibly something else irritated my system, I’m gonna wait until I attempt to take orally...

Maybe there are better things to try than DMSO for an internal fungal problem. I personally wouldn't use large amounts orally. Have you tried the carrot salad with coconut oil and white distilled vinegar daily ( you can probably do it twice or more a day even)


Also I'm curious if your including a few ounces of liver, some eggs, and oysters in diet?

 

[meatbag]

Dairy seems to make me feel a bit sick, low energy, and very foggy-brained, and can progress to migraines if too many stresses compound. Tomato paste seems to give me some similar symptoms.

Maybe there area few possible explanations I've come across;
1)Lowering of stress (by the saturated fat and lactose)
2)Randle cycle and other effects of fats (too much fat at once?)
3) Bacterial problems/overgrowth in the small intestine (I know Danny Roddy has mentioned that he and others he has worked with experienced drastic changes in their ability to fully digest and handle milk/dairy well)

Not sure about the tomato paste. I know that it strongly leeches and absorbs BPA/S if it coming from a metal tin since they're lined with the stuff

 

[Wagner83]

Dairy seems to make me feel a bit sick, low energy, and very foggy-brained, and can progress to migraines if too many stresses compound. Tomato paste seems to give me some similar symptoms.

Have you tried lactose-free, fat-free quark cheese? I'm not entirely sure yet how I fare with it but at least it doesn't seem to give instant bad symptoms (unsure about things like drive and mood), feta cheese for dinner is pretty nice.

 

[morgan#1]

Wagner83 and Meatbag,

Thanks for your input. It is important to isolate things that could be an issue for the body at that time. Let’s see, milk I drink 1%; I know this was directed at Tara, but I drink a little vinager before I drink milk. (Right now actually I’m drinking milk, with gelatin and Ceylon, and about a tsp of fructose.) I don’t know if the vinegar helps, but I think I used to get bloated after I drank milk, and now I don’t. Maybe my body’s getting better at digestion, or maybe the vinegar helps.

I do eat the carrot on a daily. With coconut or olive oil and vinager. (I should eat it a couple times just to experiment, thanks Meatbag.) And I order liver wurst; tried the calves liver from Whole Foods. But I couldn’t get down 4 oz. even 2! And I eat eggs daily and I have crown prince oysters 4 days a week. I just eat a few. They’re in a can (might be doing more harm than good, in a can).

Thanks for your thoughts, and maybe I should start my own bacterial fungal infection thread...I’m better at researching, so I’ll attempt that. I’m sure there are plenty of stories around here, hopefully some success stories.

Oh by the way I got Zane Greek oregano oil, with 86% carvacrol. Used it yesterday and today. Nothing’s cleared up yet, but there is some nose running. We’ll see.

 

[tara]

Maybe there area few possible explanations I've come across;

What are you suggesting explanations for? I was responding to a question about my reaction to tomato paste, because it was discussed in relation to DMSO. I described it as similar to my reaction to dairy.
As to tomato leeching BPA/S for tins, I'm not keen to be eating a lot of BPA/S, but would you expect to get a reaction within a day from those? I'd imagined them as more slow cumulative toxins. I also got a similar reaction recently from tomato puree in a glass bottle.

Have you tried lactose-free, fat-free quark cheese? I'm not entirely sure yet how I fare with it but at least it doesn't seem to give instant bad symptoms (unsure about things like drive and mood), feta cheese for dinner is pretty nice.

I was not trying to get a solution to dairy difficulties in the is thread , just describing my reaction to tomato paste as similar. I have tried many types of dairy - low-fat, high-fat, relatively low-lactose, full-lactose, fermented, fresh, raw, pasteurised, UHT, many different cheeses, yogurts, quarks, A2, A1, goat, skim-milk powder, sweetened condensed milk, casein powder, different brands, ... At this point I'm inclined to give up on it and suspect I've developed an intolerance or allergy to the milk proteins themselves or am extra sensitive to that casomorphins. Maybe my digestive system is not at full strength. In the meantime, I seem to do best avoiding dairy a much a possible, and getting my protein and calcium from other sources.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Oops, posted in wrong thread. Sorry

 

[meatbag]

Wagner83 and Meatbag,

Thanks for your input. It is important to isolate things that could be an issue for the body at that time. Let’s see, milk I drink 1%; I know this was directed at Tara, but I drink a little vinager before I drink milk. (Right now actually I’m drinking milk, with gelatin and Ceylon, and about a tsp of fructose.) I don’t know if the vinegar helps, but I think I used to get bloated after I drank milk, and now I don’t. Maybe my body’s getting better at digestion, or maybe the vinegar helps.

I do eat the carrot on a daily. With coconut or olive oil and vinager. (I should eat it a couple times just to experiment, thanks Meatbag.) And I order liver wurst; tried the calves liver from Whole Foods. But I couldn’t get down 4 oz. even 2! And I eat eggs daily and I have crown prince oysters 4 days a week. I just eat a few. They’re in a can (might be doing more harm than good, in a can).

Thanks for your thoughts, and maybe I should start my own bacterial fungal infection thread...I’m better at researching, so I’ll attempt that. I’m sure there are plenty of stories around here, hopefully some success stories.

Oh by the way I got Zane Greek oregano oil, with 86% carvacrol. Used it yesterday and today. Nothing’s cleared up yet, but there is some nose running. We’ll see.

Yeah if you want to start a new thread that'd be cool. I think from what I've read that the running nose after ingesting something indicates it may allergenic. I think, from what I've read, the bloating from eating foods may be due to bacterial overgrowth from slow digestion due to hypothyroidism. Liver might be an especially helpful food considering previous issues with an ED; vitamin A, b vitamins, fat soluble vitamins. I am not really crazy about the taste of liver either but here are the ways I've made it that were pretty good;
>I always cut it into small thin pieces
>Cook with a lot of butter, salt to taste
>I have added soy sauce and sugar to taste when almost done cooking in butter to make a kind of sauce like at a hibachi grill place
>Makeing a liver pate (this can be time consuming but is the best tasting)
>Finding a butcher to make liver and meat sausage with good seasonings

I actually used to get infections fairly often; fungal, strep throat, ears and throat, etc, but haven't really gotten anything noticeable since I started eating liver and not doing intermittent fasting. Have you checked out these podcasts, I know there were some interesting discussions about antibiotics. Maybe you will find something helpful in them;

 

[morgan#1]

You’ve helped me a lot Meatbag,

I’m in my luteal, and now I’m applying twice as much progesterone (usually it’s around 20-30 mg; now it’s at least twice that, morning and night.) As a result my vascularity is not so scary. Lol. I feel better (relaxed). I went for a long walk with a friend last night and it was just beautiful. I had a glimpse of my life without all the struggles...nice to have hope. The way I feel now is the way I felt when I was just starting my diet.

I think the food overload initially might be strong for my system. And it seems there is more bacteria or whatever. I do go “poo” more than 3 times. I eat really frequently; it seems that the more calories I consume the better for health and my hormones. Well, with the exception of the bacteria. Hopefully I can tone my eating so frequently down, once my liver is good. The running nose I think it is something positive, I’ve been taking the oregano oil and it really seems to be loosening things up. But we’ll see, I don’t want to get my hopes up. Maybe it is an allergenic. But I’ve heard great things about it.

Also, for those of you reading who have trouble with food; my body knows it’s set-point. Not me! I used to limit my calories, but now keeping fat low, I really can eat and eat and even more eating, the right foods. And now I know what basically the right foods are. I’m not gonna binge on oj, and if I did it would be because my body needed it. I do go a little nuts with the gummy bears when I’m high, at least it’s gelatin and shitty sugar. I used to be crazy at the gym, 5-6 days a week, weight training and an hour of gym-cardio. Now I go 2 times a week and I do gym-cardio once. Yesterday I only did 10 minutes of gym-cardio. I go for walks in hopefully sunshine, to try and help my anxiety. Anxiety is the #1 killer of souls. Ha ha. I do go nuts on the lifting, my music and the feeling of my strength. It’s great. It feels really good, not like when I was obsessive. My earbuds can track my pulse so if I go too hard I know it. My muscles are full and my tummy is flat-ish. I notice when I go too far at the gym there’s water retention all over. When I look at my face in the mirror I’m very proud, I can see the health.

It’s not all peaches and cream, I have no appetite. Nothing, I eat because I need to. I don’t know what that’s about. But as a huge plus I’ve been able to overcome the ED, the cravings were something I was chained to, and they ruled me. No appetite, UNLESS I’m high. (I’m not a huge weed smoker. I did that in college along with other more potent stuff. But it’s nice to take me out of my obsessive thoughts.) So no winning there. My vision is really blurry when I’m high. I have myopia and like I said, with the veins, my vision is a barometer, when I can barely see, that’s when things are inflamed. I couldn’t go on any kind of a fast right now, because I’m a little to nervous to lose weight.

Nuts, I would’ve never believed any of this. When I first joined RPF I wanted my hormones “fixed” and I was like a carrot, huh? And now it all makes sense. When I’m in, I’m all in. Food, it seems to be a double edged sword: it seems that some bacteria is stuck in there. The more I eat it gets stronger. I’m hoping that it’s gonna take some time and all will be well. I’m learning about bio films...but one thing at a time; I have heard that oregano oil disrupts them.

By the way, I did what someone on another thread said, placed a drop of oregano oil outside of my eardrum and it hurt like hell! One thing that I know is my stuff is very powerful and another thing I know is I am not free from suggestions from someone who I don’t know and who might be loony, ie I guess I have a lot to work on in power of suggestions. I am not stalwart enough with my body, I suppose.

With the liver issue I will try again, because it’s very important. I am going to order bison liver, I’ve heard it’s tastier, hmm.

Thanks for your guiding me as much as you’re able. From one stranger to another, it means a lot.

We’ll end it there. These people are looking at this thread for DMSO and I’m going on about my non related issue! But I like hearing things similar to this, and hopefully someone will find something interesting.

 

[Broken man]

What are you suggesting explanations for? I was responding to a question about my reaction to tomato paste, because it was discussed in relation to DMSO. I described it as similar to my reaction to dairy.
As to tomato leeching BPA/S for tins, I'm not keen to be eating a lot of BPA/S, but would you expect to get a reaction within a day from those? I'd imagined them as more slow cumulative toxins. I also got a similar reaction recently from tomato puree in a glass bottle.

I was not trying to get a solution to dairy difficulties in the is thread , just describing my reaction to tomato paste as similar. I have tried many types of dairy - low-fat, high-fat, relatively low-lactose, full-lactose, fermented, fresh, raw, pasteurised, UHT, many different cheeses, yogurts, quarks, A2, A1, goat, skim-milk powder, sweetened condensed milk, casein powder, different brands, ... At this point I'm inclined to give up on it and suspect I've developed an intolerance or allergy to the milk proteins themselves or am extra sensitive to that casomorphins. Maybe my digestive system is not at full strength. In the meantime, I seem to do best avoiding dairy a much a possible, and getting my protein and calcium from other sources.

Please, what are your sources of calcium? Thank you.

 

[Wagner83]

@morgan#1 @meatbag @Broken man

You do realize that you and I were pretty off-topic guys, right? I think as meatbag suggested you could have your own thread and maybe the superior people could have the generosity to move the posts in the process.

 

[morgan#1]

Hello Wagner83,

“We’ll end it there. These people are looking at this thread for DMSO and I’m going on about my non related issue! But I like hearing things similar to this, and hopefully someone will find something interesting.”

For my part in this, sorry to bother you. Now I realize why I had the ED. To protect me from this form of ridiculous. You could just skip stuff that doesn’t interest you, instead of trying to control it. The moderators know what to do, I don’t. I was actually having fun, being honest with my issues. I was hoping someone somewhere would see a little bit of my story. I had no hope. But I absolutely agree, this is not the place for that. See my above quote.

Laid back and no stress. Mantra worthy

That’s what makes life not so wonderful. Uptightness run amok, ha ha

Maybe a moderator will move this to whatever appropriate spot there is? I wouldn’t mind.

 

[tara]

Please, what are your sources of calcium? Thank you.

Currently, some from leafy greens, and since I don't think I get enough that way, some from supplemental calcium carbonate in the form of oyster shell that I got from purebulk a while ago. Don't think they still stock it. I think clean eggshell calcium may be better than oystershell. I don't take huge doses.

 

[Broken man]

@morgan#1 @meatbag @Broken man

You do realize that you and I were pretty off-topic guys, right? I think as meatbag suggested you could have your own thread and maybe the superior people could have the generosity to move the posts in the process.

I am sorry, I didnt read whole thread.

 

[bdawg]

I looked at that study about STAR and DMSO... Differential effects of dimethylsulfoxide on steroidogenesis in mouse MA-10 and rat R2C Leydig tumor cells. - PubMed - NCBI

To reach the same levels of 5% dmso in vivo, how many grams dose of dmso would that take for an average weight adult male? It's unfortunate this study only did one level instead of titrating. I think the fact that dmso is used routinely in race horses, and by professional athletes would suggest that dmso as an anti-androgen is unlikely even at larger doses (e.g. 2 teaspoons a day).

Assuming the body is 60% water, assuming dmso is mainly going to be mixing with other water in the body.... so a 165 pound male *.6 = 99... 99 * .05 = 5... 5 pounds of DMSO to make up a 5% level in the body?? That sure is a lot....

What do you think about the star impact from DMSO?

 

[Wagner83]

I seem to be intolerant to tomato paste. I can eat fresh tomatoes with no apparent trouble. I had been guessing mold or something in the ones that went into paste, but I guess this is another possibility for me.

[Histamine and tyramine levels in selected food products]. - PubMed - NCBI

In the remaining food products (tomato paste, yeast, wine, cabbage and sauerkraut), histamine content was between 0.0-16.6 mg/100 g (highest in tomato paste), and tyramine content fluctuated between 0.0-8.0 mg/100 g (highest in sauerkraut).​

 

[tara]

In the remaining food products (tomato paste, yeast, wine, cabbage and sauerkraut), histamine content was between 0.0-16.6 mg/100 g (highest in tomato paste), and tyramine content fluctuated between 0.0-8.0 mg/100 g (highest in sauerkraut).

OK, more possibilities. I tend to generally avoid it.

 

[RisingSun]

I'm leary of it because of what Nathan Hatch says about it in his article on supplements at fuckportioncontrol.com:
DMSO, like many artificial compounds, is outright toxic for the human body. I personally tried some products with DMSO and each time my body temperature dropped and my physical wellbeing altered for the negative (aches/pain/etc.). It turns out that DMSO is not harmless, as some manufacturers have led us to believe and even cherry-pick studies to support its use. DMSO has many negative side effects, and worst of all has a very long half-life, so it accumulates faster than the other parts of a product and takes a long time to clear out of the body. Even Ray Peat warns against using it. For me, this one is a strong NO. It would be nice if he supplied some references.

This could as well be a Herxheimer reaction to DMSO as it chelates heavy metals. Toxicity and detox symptoms are often similar and hard to dissociate.

DMSO is present in significant proportions in the compounded creams we prescribe to our TRT patients, and are very well tolerated.
It does seem to potentiate the effects of steroids, as shown with serum values, but also at the receptor level: at equivalent serum levels there is usually a more pronounced effect of the steroids for those who get them through scrotal DMSO application.