Questionable Safety Of Dmso

Drareg

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
4,772
The dmso supplements were suppressing my temp and pulse. My temp actually got as low as 96 on tyromax when without thyroid my temp is rarely below 99. Initially, I was so suprised that I thought my thermometer was broken. I am very well aware of how these supplements ordinarily work and I eat a very high calorie diet. I don't have any issues with up to 6000mg of caffeine in a day and can easily tell if I need more sugar. The dmso based supplements were increasing estrogen either by pulling it out of tissues or having some toxicity to begin with. Further, the effect was extremely potent, taking several days to recover from just 2 servings.

DMSO seems to have many faces, it does cause mast cells to degranulate.
The estrogen angle you have is interesting.
 

Sea

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
164
Sea, was this topically or did you ingest it?


I have been taking 1 drop of Tyromax on my wrist daily without any negative effects. I also use Progestene and Pansteroone with no issues other than the mild skin irritation. Since reading about the necessity of dessicated thyroid to be digested to make available, I decided to take my 1 drop orally. Not long after ingesting, I became very sleepy (nodding off while reading) and my feet were cold even though they were under a blanket. Since I am pretty sure I am running on stress hormones, I perceived this to be a lowering of the stress and revealing my true hypo state. I had not considered it to be a blood sugar/fuel issue.

I tried tyromax, pansterone, progestene and stressnon all topically. The worst experience was when I was taking both tyromax and pansterone concurrently for a month before fully realizing what was happening.

Thyroid can make you feel sleepy initially if you have enough sugar, but were in a stressed state, without enough sugar it should make you feel like you drank too much coffee. Overtime, thyroid just works like a stronger version of coffee with a longer half life, albeit through different mechanisms. If you were running on stress hormones, then it should make your pulse decrease in the short term, although I am not sure if it should cause your temp to decrease. However, I don't think you can make any conclusion from 1 drop, one time.
 
Last edited:

goodandevil

Member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
978
I have been using Tyromax for more than a month, and I think I develop dark urine since starting to use it, in fact, I was searching the forum for dark urine and your post came up. I'm a little worried about it; not too much, since I think it has been helpful in general, but I would like to solve the dark urine problem.

Darker stool might be a another sign of hemolysis. Im going to take a break but im glad to know the pregnenelone and dhea combo is so effective.
 

cdg

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
272
Read Peat's book mind and tissue...

"DMSO apparently introduces some"hydrophobicity" into water, because of its strong hydrogen bonding oxygen and its methyl groups--at least it seems to lower the effective activity of water (Berezin, Ugarova, and Silaev, 1973). This may mimic the resting state of protoplasm to some extent, since it seems to improve metabolic efficiency: Reducing inflammation and treating mental retardation are its best known (apparent) effects. The disappearance of cataracts in the eyes of retarded children is another suggestion of improved oxidative efficiency (dinitrophenol, an uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation, produces cataracts, as does age, which also involves oxidative inefficiency)."
Extracted from page 110 of the said book.
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,075
I tried tyromax, pansterone, progestene and stressnon all topically. The worst experience was when I was taking both tyromax and pansterone concurrently for a month before fully realizing what was happening.

Thyroid can make you feel sleepy initially if you have enough sugar, but were in a stressed state, without enough sugar it should make you feel like you drank too much coffee. Overtime, thyroid just works like a stronger version of coffee with a longer half life, albeit through different mechanisms. If you were running on stress hormones, then it should make your pulse decrease in the short term, although I am not sure if it should cause your temp to decrease. However, I don't think you can make any conclusion from 1 drop, one time.

I have had that nap thing in the afternoon before when my metabolism was good. My metabolism is not that great right now and it occurred shortly after breakfast (not eggs)and I was drinking a Pepsi. I'll try it again for several days to see if I get the same effect. If it's lowering stress hormones, that is good.
 

goodandevil

Member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
978
I'd be curious to hear more about its ability to prevent the break down of acetylcholine. If I recal correctly, sarin gas does the same at an obviously increased rate. I think that could definitely be a draw back.

I'm going to test this stuff out with insulin and see what happens. I need to find a friend to watch to make sure I don't die, but it would be sweet if I could take insulin through the skin.
I heard it potentiates insulin.
 

Attachments

  • vetsci00014-0007.pdf
    985.4 KB · Views: 38

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe

Attachments

  • dmso_clinical_toxicilogy.png
    dmso_clinical_toxicilogy.png
    79.8 KB · Views: 130

Sea

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
164
Some additional information on DMSO safety for those interested. Given that it is a Google Book, I have extracted the relevant information as a screenshot.
Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) in Trauma and Disease

This shows DMSO had side effects in humans. It doesn't show that it is safe. I don't think many hypothyroid people are going to do well with DMSO supplements.
 

supernature

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
78
It took me some time to determine it was the DMSO that was causing my metabolism to tank, as initially I did not expect a solvent to be more powerful than the actual supplement. I think that people should be very cautious with DMSO because unless I got a bad batch of supplements, I think that many hypothyroid people will run into problems with it.

DMSO it makes you tired, exhausted.., if you're sure, then it would be easier to figure out why you felt it this way, something with the metabolism of sulphur maybe?
When i ingest a bit of dmso it noticeably fastens my heart rate for a while, or maybe thats the substances thats coming with it.
 

Sea

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
164
DMSO it makes you tired, exhausted.., if you're sure, then it would be easier to figure out why you felt it this way, something with the metabolism of sulphur maybe?
When i ingest a bit of dmso it noticeably fastens my heart rate for a while, or maybe thats the substances thats coming with it.

I don't know why, but from searching the internet it seems that a lot of people experience similar adverse reactions to DMSO. I see people reporting elevated liver enzymes and it causes side effects that would suggest elevated liver enzymes. All I can tell is that it increased symptoms of elevated estrogen and serotonin in me which took a while to fully recover from.

Your heart rate increasing sounds like elevated adrenaline/stress hormones.
 
Last edited:

supernature

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
78
Yes probably its causing at least high adrenaline in me. It was pregnenolone+dhea+dmso, i couldnt find my dose - even with so little (2-3 to 5mg/day for 2-3 days), it was suppressing my libido i think, i didnt know my dheas was high norm at the time i tried it.
 

Sea

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
164
Yes probably its causing at least high adrenaline in me. It was pregnenolone+dhea+dmso, i couldnt find my dose - even with so little (2-3 to 5mg/day for 2-3 days), it was suppressing my libido i think, i didnt know my dheas was high norm at the time i tried it.

I have found that DMSO supressed my libido. Pregnenolone and DHEA should increase libido. Now, I do believe haidut's supplements contain the active ingredient, but that the DMSO overpowers any benefit.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
If one of the major general effects of DMSO is to make it easier for a wide range of substances, including various hormones, to diffuse through tissues throughout the body, it seems likely to me that there could be effects across many physiological processes across the whole body. Some of those effects could well be helpful in some contexts, while others may not be.

Since it seems as though the local effects of high concentrations are potentially damaging to tissues, I'm thinking twice about how to use the melanon. I don't want to be causing more acute damage in a field that is already probably responding to damage or imbalance. I might have another go at some stage by diluting it with more than just a couple of drops of extra water.
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
This shows DMSO had side effects in humans. It doesn't show that it is safe. I don't think many hypothyroid people are going to do well with DMSO supplements.

Yes, it had side effects but no observable toxicity. Not sure there is any chemical in the world that does not have side effects in certain doses. This is from the book above:
"...DMSO, at 3-30 times the usual treatment dose in humans appeared as a relatively very safe drug, and in particular, no lens changes that were seen to occur in some animal species were detected in any subject after extensive ophtalmological examinations after the 3-month follow-up."

So, if this discussion is about toxicity I think the above quote is relevant. If it is about whether DMSO has side effects or not, I don't think we need studies to accept that it does. Baking soda and caffeine have the same side effects reported in the human studies (i.e. nausea, irritation, diarrhea) in doses used by people at home or found in your average cup of Joe. As far as supplements are concerned, my understanding is that it is lack of toxicity that is paramount and the presence of side effects is guaranteed and something to be aware of no matter what we are using as a supplement, including something as safe as caffeine or table salt.
 
Last edited:

Sea

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
164
Yes, it had side effects but no toxicity observable toxicity. Not sure there is any chemical in the world that does not have side effects in certain doses. This is from the book above:
"...DMSO, at 3-30 times the usual treatment dose in humans appeared as a relatively very safe drug, and in particular, no lens changes that were seen to occur in some animal species were detected in any subject after extensive ophtalmological examinations after the 3-month follow-up."

So, if this discussion is about toxicity I think the above quote is relevant. If it is about whether DMSO has side effects or not, I don't think we need studies to accept that it does. Baking soda and caffeine have the same side effects reported in the human studies (i.e. nausea, irritation, diarrhea) in doses used by people at home or found in your average cup of Joe. As far as supplements are concerned, my understanding is that it is lack of toxicity that is paramount and the presence of side effects is guaranteed and something to be aware of no matter what we are using as a supplement, including something as safe as caffeine or table salt.

That depends on your definition of toxicity. I think in the Ray Peat forum people generally agree that substances which lower the temp and pulse have some level of toxicity. I don't see how that quote is remotely relevant to the discussion. All pharmaceutical drugs are considered relatively safe, but in the Ray Peat forum I would hope that we have higher standards.

Baking soda and caffeine do not have the same type of side effects that DMSO has. The former increase the temp and pulse and only produce short term side effects as a result of increased metabolism. DMSO, in myself and others that have posted here, lowers the temp and pulse, and produces far more severe side effects that do not improve with continuous usage or with the addition of more sugar.

Basically every supplement sold on the earth would meet this vague criteria for a lack of toxicity since most will not kill you for a long time, even if they are toxic. I think that any supplement manufacturer should first aim to do no harm unless their supplement is not marketed for health improvement.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
I think there may be some official definitions of toxicity, to do with the size of the LD50 or some such.

Lots of supplements are unsafe/can do harm under some conditions, including caffeine. And it's not just about the sugar supply. I believe the effect of caffeine (coffee) for mein even quite moderate amounts seems to be to reduce metabolism (after a brief period of increased metabolism). I've speculated about how this might be on other threads. It also has a clear potential to kill in larger quantities, if people are not aware of the hazard.
I'm not arguing that caffeine should not be available - it is clearly very useful for many people, and I want to be able to come by it myself. I just want people to know something about the risks.
Baking soda also has the potential to be quite dangerous under particular conditions - eg high pH and high calcium supplementation.

I'm pleased that Haidut makes available some supplements that would be hard to get in such pure form otherwise, so that those of us who have read up on the possible effects/risks - pros and cons - and are ready to watch for our own reactions, can make our own decisions about whether and how to experiment with them. Some people seem to have benefitted significantly from some of the supplements that contain DMSO, even if they don't work for everyone.

What I don't like are general assurances of complete safety for everyone for substances that can sometimes do harm, whether or not it is called toxicity, and even if there are also lots of cases of beneficial use. This applies to caffeine and baking soda as well as DMSO and many other substances, including ones that can be readily bought over the counter.

I'd like it if whatever we know about possible risks and contraindications were easily available to anyone considering using them, along with the potential benefits.
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
That depends on your definition of toxicity. I think in the Ray Peat forum people generally agree that substances which lower the temp and pulse have some level of toxicity. I don't see how that quote is remotely relevant to the discussion. All pharmaceutical drugs are considered relatively safe, but in the Ray Peat forum I would hope that we have higher standards.

Baking soda and caffeine do not have the same type of side effects that DMSO has. The former increase the temp and pulse and only produce short term side effects as a result of increased metabolism. DMSO, in myself and others that have posted here, lowers the temp and pulse, and produces far more severe side effects that do not improve with continuous usage or with the addition of more sugar.

Basically every supplement sold on the earth would meet this vague criteria for a lack of toxicity since most will not kill you for a long time, even if they are toxic. I think that any supplement manufacturer should first aim to do no harm unless their supplement is not marketed for health improvement.

See Tara's post below. When I say toxicity
That depends on your definition of toxicity. I think in the Ray Peat forum people generally agree that substances which lower the temp and pulse have some level of toxicity. I don't see how that quote is remotely relevant to the discussion. All pharmaceutical drugs are considered relatively safe, but in the Ray Peat forum I would hope that we have higher standards.

Baking soda and caffeine do not have the same type of side effects that DMSO has. The former increase the temp and pulse and only produce short term side effects as a result of increased metabolism. DMSO, in myself and others that have posted here, lowers the temp and pulse, and produces far more severe side effects that do not improve with continuous usage or with the addition of more sugar.

Basically every supplement sold on the earth would meet this vague criteria for a lack of toxicity since most will not kill you for a long time, even if they are toxic. I think that any supplement manufacturer should first aim to do no harm unless their supplement is not marketed for health improvement.

If the supplements affect you in a certain negative way then I can't argue with that. But to claim that "...I don't think many hypothyroid people are going to do well with DMSO supplements" based just on your own personal experience is a bit premature, don't you think? Also, do you mind sharing some links about DMSO causing elevated liver enzymes? I did search around and I could not find much. In fact, there is at least one study that claims the exact opposite.
http://www.dmso.org/articles/ChemicalInjury/ProtectionofLiverfromIschemia.pdf
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
I think there may be some official definitions of toxicity, to do with the size of the LD50 or some such.

Lots of supplements are unsafe/can do harm under some conditions, including caffeine. And it's not just about the sugar supply. I believe the effect of caffeine (coffee) for mein even quite moderate amounts seems to be to reduce metabolism (after a brief period of increased metabolism). I've speculated about how this might be on other threads. It also has a clear potential to kill in larger quantities, if people are not aware of the hazard.
I'm not arguing that caffeine should not be available - it is clearly very useful for many people, and I want to be able to come by it myself. I just want people to know something about the risks.
Baking soda also has the potential to be quite dangerous under particular conditions - eg high pH and high calcium supplementation.

I'm pleased that Haidut makes available some supplements that would be hard to get in such pure form otherwise, so that those of us who have read up on the possible effects/risks - pros and cons - and are ready to watch for our own reactions, can make our own decisions about whether and how to experiment with them. Some people seem to have benefitted significantly from some of the supplements that contain DMSO, even if they don't work for everyone.

What I don't like are general assurances of complete safety for everyone for substances that can sometimes do harm, whether or not it is called toxicity, and even if there are also lots of cases of beneficial use. This applies to caffeine and baking soda as well as DMSO and many other substances, including ones that can be readily bought over the counter.

I'd like it if whatever we know about possible risks and contraindications were easily available to anyone considering using them, along with the potential benefits.

I agree, toxicity and side effects are both important. The book link I posted used the word "safety" and that's why I used the same word. Obviously, safety may mean different things to various people and like you said, we probably need to be mindful of everything we ingest or use. Even something as benign as caffeine and baking soda.
 

charlie

Admin
The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
14,359
Location
USA
I don't think many hypothyroid people are going to do well with DMSO supplements.
Quite the leap you are making there and such a wide net you are casting.

haidut,
“If you’re not catching flak you’re not over the target” ;)
 

supernature

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
78
@Sea "I have found that DMSO supressed my libido."

Havent done work on that connection, but i think the role of dmso beside as a vehicle is to increase the potency of what is coming with it.

"Pregnenolone and DHEA should increase libido."

It was definitely increasing something, but libido was suppressed, it could be related to conversion towards E but not T.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom