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haidut

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I wanted to post this even though it won't change the mind of DMSO opponents. The topic of DMSO safety has come up multiple times among scientists using it as a solvent for delivery of chemicals in vivo studies and so I did some digging and found some interesting data point.
First, DMSO used in a dose much higher than what can be achieve with our supplements was capable of completely protecting the liver from acetaminophen poisoning.
Dimethyl sulfoxide - Wikipedia
"...In medical research, DMSO is often used as a drug vehicle in in vivo and in vitro experiments. However, when a researcher is unaware of its pleiotropic effects, or when the control groups are not carefully planned, a bias can occur; an effect of DMSO can be falsely attributed to the drug.[23] For example, even a very low dose of DMSO has a powerful protective effect against paracetamol (acetaminophen)-induced liver injury in mice."

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/y10-065?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub=pubmed&#.WEbxIrIrKUl
"...As shown in Table 1, DMSO, DMF, and PG at a dose of 0.6ml/kg almost completely abolished APAP toxicity; ALT levels were 37, 45, and 15 times lower, respectively, than in the control group (which received saline before APAP administration).
"...At a dose of 0.2 ml/kg (second experiment), DMF and DMSO were similarly effective; ALT levels were, respectively, 15 and 18 times lower than in the control group. They also significantly inhibited GSH depletion."

The doses of 0.2 ml/kg and 0.6 ml/kg used in the study above correspond to 866 mg/kg and 2600 mg/kg for a mouse. The study considered these doses low and beneficial, and in humans they correspond to about 62 mg/kg and 185 mg/kg. So, the therapeutic human doses of DMSO according to this study would be on the order of 5g - 18g as a single dose.
Furthermore, I did some digging on the long term safety of DMSO as a solvent and found quite a few discussions online. Here are some links for those that are interested.
How much DMSO (Dimethyl Sulfoxide) should one use and what how...
Is a DMSO dissolved drug toxic for mice?
What is the maximum allowable DMSO concentration for IP injection...
How much DMSO is tolerable by the mice through IP injection?
Does anybody know what is the safe solution of DMSO for cell cultures?

One of these discussions had a link to the following study, which tested all commonly used solvent for their chronic use safety, in a number of different animals including rats, mice, dogs, rabbits, etc. See attached screenshot.
http://services.crchudequebec.ca/se...015/08/Nonclinical-vehical-use-in-studies.pdf

The finding was that the upper safe dose for chronic administration of DMSO was similar to the dose used in the liver protection study above. This means that the introduction of up to several grams of DMSO daily into a human organism should not cause problems, and may in fact be beneficial for some organs. Of course, our supplements provide much lower amounts of DMSO that do not even come close to the doses used for chronic safety studies above. The only issue that the studies noted was a potential minor skin irritation, and we are close to resolving that problem as well.
Finally, I urge everybody to scroll through that last toxicity study as it looked at virtually all commonly used solvents. Given how common some of them are in commercial preparations (PEG, PG, acetate, etc) it would help estimate how toxicity from exposure to medications or chemicals containing these solvents.
 

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Agent207

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I hope it to be safer than all kind of bisphenols in plastics.
 
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haidut

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I hope it to be safer than all kind of bisphenols in plastics.

We will soon start testing the actual supplement poured in the plastic bottles to see if anything leeches from the bottle. We found a lab that is willing to do the testing for a reasonable price. I am also thinking of sending them a few bottles from Pepsi, Coke, spring water, etc to see if commonly sold beverages in plastic bottles contain dangerous levels of bisphenols. If you have ideas for other popular products sold in plastic bottles or containers that we can test please share.
 

haidut

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goodandevil

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Does this mean there won't be tocopherol versions of your products? was looking forward to that. No hemolysis with tocopherols.
 

sladerunner69

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We will soon start testing the actual supplement poured in the plastic bottles to see if anything leeches from the bottle. We found a lab that is willing to do the testing for a reasonable price. I am also thinking of sending them a few bottles from Pepsi, Coke, spring water, etc to see if commonly sold beverages in plastic bottles contain dangerous levels of bisphenols. If you have ideas for other popular products sold in plastic bottles or containers that we can test please share.

Wow please please do this :woot:! I have been asking myself this question since I was just a little lad. Glass bottle colas do taste "cleaner" then plastic bottles, I believe that, but is it just a mental thing?
Eagerly awaiting until the results are in! My fingernails can't take much more of this!
 

haidut

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Does this mean there won't be tocopherol versions of your products? was looking forward to that. No hemolysis with tocopherols.

There will be. I think we will start with Pansterone and androsterone and see how people like them and then release tocopherol versions for other DMSO-based supplements.
 

Wagner83

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So, based on the information you found, it seems that DMSO below concentration of 70% was harmless to the eye. That's what we will be aiming for with the new batch of DMSO-based supplements and btw, we now use smaller bottles so the amount of applied DMSO per dose is 50% less.
This was what one study suggested and good to know the concentration and volume of dmso will be reduced anyways.
I do not know what the other studies I mentioned used in terms of concentration and quantities:

"
Also see here (The Human Toxicology Of Dimethyl Sulfoxide):

On November 11, 1965, research on DMSO in the United States came to an abrupt halt. A conference between the Food and Drug Administration and the pharmaceutical companies who were involved in the research was called because lens changes had been observed in a number of mammalian species. No changes ha been observed in man or any primates.

[...]
Dr. Scherbel, at Cleveland Clinic, had under treatment 44 cases of scleroderma. Their treatment was still continued under the new FDA rules. Some of these patients had received as much as 3 g/kg per day. Some were treated for as long as 23 months. Many lens abnormalities were observed in this group of patients, but none of those characteristically observed in the DMSO-treated animals. Therefore, the results of the examination of scleroderma cases were somewhat inconclusive.

"


How much DMSO (Dimethyl Sulfoxide) should one use and what how...

Someone (Ron Reiserer) suggested it disrupts lipid membranes and denatures proteins.

There's also this study:

The toxicity of dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) for the dog, pig, rat and rabbit.
The toxicity of dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) for the dog, pig, rat and rabbit. - PubMed - NCBI

Here it is mentioned as well:
Clinical Ocular Toxicology

DIMETHYL SULFOXIDE IN OPHTHALMOLOGY, WITH ESPECIAL REFERENCE TO POSSIBLE TOXIC EFFECTS - Gordon - 2006 - Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences - Wiley Online Library

Here they seem to say it's safe for humans:
Based on animal results and as regards shortterm administration of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) clinically, repetitious and detailed ophthalmoscopic rechecking of patients seems unnecessary. However, when long-term administration is contemplated, exacting pretreatment study is necessary in order that lenticular abnormalities or other pathologic ocular conditions already present may be identified and quantitated. Only with such base-line information can the possible undesired effects of medication be objectively followed. if any single fact has emerged from animal and human studies with DMSO to date, it is that the lens toxicity findings originally reported in dogs and later confirmed in certain other species have no equivalent or counterpart in human therapy utilizing DMSO in generally accepted regimens.


As I said I myself noticed unpleasant stuff happening to my eye back when I used dmso , concentration, quantity and the individual may all play a part, very few substances have no side effects for everyone.
There's a lot of contradictory information but I would watch out for potential side effects (as with any supplements) , especially with the eyes and may avoid using it on children (Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) produces widespread apoptosis in the developing central nervous system. - PubMed - NCBI).
 
Last edited:

Wagner83

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We will soon start testing the actual supplement poured in the plastic bottles to see if anything leeches from the bottle. We found a lab that is willing to do the testing for a reasonable price. I am also thinking of sending them a few bottles from Pepsi, Coke, spring water, etc to see if commonly sold beverages in plastic bottles contain dangerous levels of bisphenols. If you have ideas for other popular products sold in plastic bottles or containers that we can test please share.
I wouldn't be surprised if most canned foods and soda in plastic bottles are more toxic than what is acceptable. Then you can add pesticides and other crap found in meat or dairy products and you already have a decent amount of endocrine disruptors.
 

goodandevil

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This was what one study suggested and good to know the concentration and volume of dmso will be reduced anyways.
I do not know what the other studies I mentioned used in terms of concentration and quantities:

"
Also see here (The Human Toxicology Of Dimethyl Sulfoxide):

On November 11, 1965, research on DMSO in the United States came to an abrupt halt. A conference between the Food and Drug Administration and the pharmaceutical companies who were involved in the research was called because lens changes had been observed in a number of mammalian species. No changes ha been observed in man or any primates.

[...]
Dr. Scherbel, at Cleveland Clinic, had under treatment 44 cases of scleroderma. Their treatment was still continued under the new FDA rules. Some of these patients had received as much as 3 g/kg per day. Some were treated for as long as 23 months. Many lens abnormalities were observed in this group of patients, but none of those characteristically observed in the DMSO-treated animals. Therefore, the results of the examination of scleroderma cases were somewhat inconclusive.

"


How much DMSO (Dimethyl Sulfoxide) should one use and what how...

Someone (Ron Reiserer) suggested it disrupts lipid membranes and denatures proteins.

There's also this study:

The toxicity of dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) for the dog, pig, rat and rabbit.
The toxicity of dimethyl sulphoxide (DMSO) for the dog, pig, rat and rabbit. - PubMed - NCBI

Here it is mentioned as well:
Clinical Ocular Toxicology

DIMETHYL SULFOXIDE IN OPHTHALMOLOGY, WITH ESPECIAL REFERENCE TO POSSIBLE TOXIC EFFECTS - Gordon - 2006 - Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences - Wiley Online Library

Here they seem to say it's safe for humans:
Based on animal results and as regards shortterm administration of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) clinically, repetitious and detailed ophthalmoscopic rechecking of patients seems unnecessary. However, when long-term administration is contemplated, exacting pretreatment study is necessary in order that lenticular abnormalities or other pathologic ocular conditions already present may be identified and quantitated. Only with such base-line information can the possible undesired effects of medication be objectively followed. if any single fact has emerged from animal and human studies with DMSO to date, it is that the lens toxicity findings originally reported in dogs and later confirmed in certain other species have no equivalent or counterpart in human therapy utilizing DMSO in generally accepted regimens.


As I said I myself noticed unpleasant stuff happening to my eye back when I used dmso , concentration, quantity and the individual may all play a part, very few substances have no side effects for everyone.
There's a lot of contradictory information but I would watch out for potential side effects (as with any supplements) , especially with the eyes and may avoid using it on children (Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) produces widespread apoptosis in the developing central nervous system. - PubMed - NCBI).
Yes, definitely be cautious if you use DMSO. It may have some good effects but that doesn't mean they're all good. I think @haidut is doing a good job with warning people to be cautious in general. best way to go.
 

jyb

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We will soon start testing the actual supplement poured in the plastic bottles to see if anything leeches from the bottle. We found a lab that is willing to do the testing for a reasonable price. I am also thinking of sending them a few bottles from Pepsi, Coke, spring water, etc to see if commonly sold beverages in plastic bottles contain dangerous levels of bisphenols. If you have ideas for other popular products sold in plastic bottles or containers that we can test please share.

If you wonder about dairy products, there's some studies out there... Dairy is worst than others by a wide margin. That's for the bad dairy from the average store though, if I had a lab I would send samples of what I'm eating see how it compares.
 

scarlettsmum

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Messages
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We will soon start testing the actual supplement poured in the plastic bottles to see if anything leeches from the bottle. We found a lab that is willing to do the testing for a reasonable price. I am also thinking of sending them a few bottles from Pepsi, Coke, spring water, etc to see if commonly sold beverages in plastic bottles contain dangerous levels of bisphenols. If you have ideas for other popular products sold in plastic bottles or containers that we can test please share.
Redbull can test please
 

haidut

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Lilac

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Could you test orange juice sold in plastic? That combination worries me. Thanks.
 

Gl;itch.e

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Haidut come across anything noteworthy in regards to DMSO used to treat injuries? I have seen some people recommend it for muscle injury, joint inflammation etc.
 

haidut

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Could you test orange juice sold in plastic? That combination worries me. Thanks.

Sure, we can test a common OJ product from stores.
 

haidut

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Haidut come across anything noteworthy in regards to DMSO used to treat injuries? I have seen some people recommend it for muscle injury, joint inflammation etc.

Oh, there is a ton of info on that. I just don't want to post it here as it would sound like I m pushing the DMSO case when I am actually trying to be balanced and warn people on limits of safe daily usage. If you search PubMed for "DMSO inflammation" you will find quite a few studies.
 
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