Safety Of Long-term Use Of DMSO As A Solvent

[Captain_Coconut]

I looked at that study about STAR and DMSO... Differential effects of dimethylsulfoxide on steroidogenesis in mouse MA-10 and rat R2C Leydig tumor cells. - PubMed - NCBI

To reach the same levels of 5% dmso in vivo, how many grams dose of dmso would that take for an average weight adult male? It's unfortunate this study only did one level instead of titrating. I think the fact that dmso is used routinely in race horses, and by professional athletes would suggest that dmso as an anti-androgen is unlikely even at larger doses (e.g. 2 teaspoons a day).

Assuming the body is 60% water, assuming dmso is mainly going to be mixing with other water in the body.... so a 165 pound male *.6 = 99... 99 * .05 = 5... 5 pounds of DMSO to make up a 5% level in the body?? That sure is a lot....

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Or must we do a scaling from mouse to human, does it work that way when we are talking about extracellular fluid concentration??? That still works out to around a half pound of dmso.... that is like 40 times the standard dose I read about people taking daily.

 

[morgan#1]

If anyone is as ignorant/naive as I am; I thought DMSO would be a missing piece (one of many) in my wanting to be healthy. I looked for what Ray said, and I found one short vid about athlethes foot and he suggested that DMSO could work in there. I couldn’t find anything else, and since many on here are pro DMSO I thought it would be safe.

~Two months later I was/am having a strange reaction. I found out that DMSO increases NO and histamine. Boy, I wish I’d known before I went all in. And I have a huge issue with nitric oxide and histamine. For the average joe, this probably will be safe. But for those of you in the same straits as me

Why Low Dose DMSO is NOT Safe Part 2

My dosage was larger than anything Haidut is producing or advocating. I did a tsp orally each day. Live and hopefully learn!

 

[meatbag]

If anyone is as ignorant/naive as I am; I thought DMSO would be a missing piece (one of many) in my wanting to be healthy. I looked for what Ray said, and I found one short vid about athlethes foot and he suggested that DMSO could work in there. I couldn’t find anything else, and since many on here are pro DMSO I thought it would be safe.

~Two months later I was/am having a strange reaction. I found out that DMSO increases NO and histamine. Boy, I wish I’d known before I went all in. And I have a huge issue with nitric oxide and histamine. For the average joe, this probably will be safe. But for those of you in the same straits as me

Why Low Dose DMSO is NOT Safe Part 2

My dosage was larger than anything Haidut is producing or advocating. I did a tsp orally each day. Live and hopefully learn!

I had some pretty good results for a fungal infection I got working at a pool awhile back using methylene blue and sulfur soap. Did you use the DMSO orally for a suspected internal fungus problem?

 

[Captain_Coconut]

If anyone is as ignorant/naive as I am; I thought DMSO would be a missing piece (one of many) in my wanting to be healthy. I looked for what Ray said, and I found one short vid about athlethes foot and he suggested that DMSO could work in there. I couldn’t find anything else, and since many on here are pro DMSO I thought it would be safe.

~Two months later I was/am having a strange reaction. I found out that DMSO increases NO and histamine. Boy, I wish I’d known before I went all in. And I have a huge issue with nitric oxide and histamine. For the average joe, this probably will be safe. But for those of you in the same straits as me

Why Low Dose DMSO is NOT Safe Part 2

My dosage was larger than anything Haidut is producing or advocating. I did a tsp orally each day. Live and hopefully learn!

What bad thing happened to you from taking DMSO? Taking daily might be unpredictable since the half life is very long your level in the body would keep building. Drugs, supplements, nutrients, and allergens too, will likely become more potent since DMSO increases the ease for things to pass through cells. As for all of the bad press on dmso, I think it’s anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant powers would far outweigh any NO or histamine that may be produced. I have used it specifically to help with calcified joints and muscles, and it did help. I do not think DMSO should be used daily, weekend use is plenty. I agree that negative effects could develop from long term daily use, heck I feel that way about Aspirin now too.

 

[morgan#1]

Meatbag

Yes, and I have yet to eradicate it. The issue/s were ear infections ongoing, gave me antibiotics, helped for about a month; and possibly made it worse. I have the ear infection, intermittently hurting. I used to feel that it was getting better, some days it would clear and pop when I was taking niacinamide or sugar. And my hearing was so much better, and my blurry vision was not so blurry.

Possibly a bacterial infection ? there is sometimes an vaginal odor, definitely not something I’ve ingested. It smells strong. There is/was an esterase. I had never heard of that. The doctor told me “nothing to worry about”. Lol I’m gonna read up on Esterase and see the causes.

The last two weeks have been really taxing and insightful. I’ve had anxiety for maybe 2 1/2 years; it’s getting worse since my third month of my Peat diet. My temp is now around 98.6 midday. Used to have a hard time getting it over 98. Last night my temp was 99.4 and my urine ph was 8. There’s something going on. Recently, I’ve taken 4-5 days off from the gym and really liked the fullness of my muscles. I come from an obsessive place, with an ED sticking with me until about 3 years ago, (weighed 82 pounds, now I’m at 120).

I know when something is up, because I have vascularity (legs, forearms, used to be on stomach). And when everything is under control I can’t really notice them; but when things get wonky like now I’m seeing them and feeling them throb. I feel like the Incredible Hulk. Lol

I’ve got some oregano oil coming for maybe a biofilm, didn’t want to do the turpentine.

Thanks for asking, anything you’d suggest?

 

[morgan#1]

Coconut

Thanks for the information. I think I just pushed it too far. For me, NO and histamine and serotonin are my core issues. And anything that is going to increase them, I’m too sensitive for. If my body were not so delicate I probably would not have had this reaction. I was trying to detox my body in some way. I thought it was the cure all.

 

[meatbag]

Meatbag

Yes, and I have yet to eradicate it. The issue/s were ear infections ongoing, gave me antibiotics, helped for about a month; and possibly made it worse. I have the ear infection, intermittently hurting. I used to feel that it was getting better, some days it would clear and pop when I was taking niacinamide or sugar. And my hearing was so much better, and my blurry vision was not so blurry.

Possibly a bacterial infection ? there is sometimes an vaginal odor, definitely not something I’ve ingested. It smells strong. There is/was an esterase. I had never heard of that. The doctor told me “nothing to worry about”. Lol I’m gonna read up on Esterase and see the causes.

The last two weeks have been really taxing and insightful. I’ve had anxiety for maybe 2 1/2 years; it’s getting worse since my third month of my Peat diet. My temp is now around 98.6 midday. Used to have a hard time getting it over 98. Last night my temp was 99.4 and my urine ph was 8. There’s something going on. Recently, I’ve taken 4-5 days off from the gym and really liked the fullness of my muscles. I come from an obsessive place, with an ED sticking with me until about 3 years ago, (weighed 82 pounds, now I’m at 120).

I know when something is up, because I have vascularity (legs, forearms, used to be on stomach). And when everything is under control I can’t really notice them; but when things get wonky like now I’m seeing them and feeling them throb. I feel like the Incredible Hulk. Lol

I’ve got some oregano oil coming for maybe a biofilm, didn’t want to do the turpentine.

Thanks for asking, anything you’d suggest?

That sounds rough, sorry you had to go through that. What kind of antibiotic did you take?
I'm not sure what you mean by esterase in this context?

I remember in one of the herb doctors episodes there was discussion about the difference in the appearance of veins under the influence of estrogen. I think there's been discussion as well of people overcoming ED issues dealing with hormonal issues as they bounce back, I'll see if I can find them to link. And info about fungus, but if you go to the scientific studies forum;https://raypeatforum.com/community/forums/scientific-studies.75/ and do a search on the that forum for fungus you might be able to find some things.

 

[morgan#1]

Meatbag ,

Ooh thanks for that link, I’ll view if after I write this...
I think the antibiotic was amoxicillin.
With the vein thing, It seems now a barometer, when their pronounced/vascular it seems that anxiety and brain fog and the ear hurts a bit and I get depressed and inward. But when the viens are manageable, I really am laid back and less obsessed with myself and no anxiety. Maybe fungus would exacerbate the circular system but I don’t know. It definitely goes along with inflammation. I have had this issue since right before I stopped with the ED...and I am convinced that THESE veins are a sign that something is wrong. When I weighed 20 less, they were actually not that noticeable. Thinner skin is something that will contribute, but that’s negligible.

I stopped because I was scarred I was going to not be fixable. Things were happening to my body, heart was hurting, hair was thinning. Skin was thinner and there was no body fat covering them; seeing as how I’m 120 now, they shouldn’t be so apparent. I can’t figure it out but I’m sure it’s mostly my imbalance. (Hormonally, circulatory, etc.) And the good/interesting thing is that their fluctuating.

Anyways...I’ll check the link out. Nice conversing with you!

 

[tara]

The levels of dmso in various foods are shown in a table on the second page (sci-hub), they are very low or non-existent in most, but tomato paste is pretty high, ...

I seem to be intolerant to tomato paste. I can eat fresh tomatoes with no apparent trouble. I had been guessing mold or something in the ones that went into paste, but I guess this is another possibility for me.

 

[meatbag]

Meatbag ,

Ooh thanks for that link, I’ll view if after I write this...
I think the antibiotic was amoxicillin.
With the vein thing, It seems now a barometer, when their pronounced/vascular it seems that anxiety and brain fog and the ear hurts a bit and I get depressed and inward. But when the viens are manageable, I really am laid back and less obsessed with myself and no anxiety. Maybe fungus would exacerbate the circular system but I don’t know. It definitely goes along with inflammation. I have had this issue since right before I stopped with the ED...and I am convinced that THESE veins are a sign that something is wrong. When I weighed 20 less, they were actually not that noticeable. Thinner skin is something that will contribute, but that’s negligible.

I stopped because I was scarred I was going to not be fixable. Things were happening to my body, heart was hurting, hair was thinning. Skin was thinner and there was no body fat covering them; seeing as how I’m 120 now, they shouldn’t be so apparent. I can’t figure it out but I’m sure it’s mostly my imbalance. (Hormonally, circulatory, etc.) And the good/interesting thing is that their fluctuating.

Anyways...I’ll check the link out. Nice conversing with you!

O yeah I think that's considered a pretty safe and helpful antibiotic. Did you see the posts about niacinamide and fungus?
With the body temperatures have you tried taking it right when you wake up and then after eating breakfast to see how it effects it? I think it might give better information if you also took you 1-minute heart rate. There are a lot of things that can influence the temp and heart rate but I think the before and after eating method gives a good insight and its good to check it over a period of time, according to what I've read of course.
>http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/03/25/ray-peat-phd-on-thyroid-temperature-pulse-and-tsh/

Here is the vein discussion I was thinking of:
--
<00:23:38>
ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So in terms of palpitations, what would you see as being a kind of a root to get to in order to restore somebody’s ability to have normal contractions?

RAY PEAT: There are a lot of things other than the electrical property of the heart, or the hydration. The blood volume is one of the factors. For example, high estrogen women are susceptible to varicose veins, ultimately or before that just swelling or distention of the veins. For example, putting your hand straight down: sometimes, the veins on the back of the hand swell up. And the legs tend to do that in the high estrogen phase of the menstrual cycle. And when the veins in the legs are distended, much of the body’s blood supply is in the legs. And so, it isn’t coming back to the heart at the normal speed. And this means that in that condition, if the woman stands up and her blood tends to fall into her legs, there will suddenly be a small return to the heart, so the heart doesn’t have very much blood to beat. So, it has fast, little strokes, because the blood simply isn’t being returned. So, this “situational” arrhythmia, or tachycardia, isn’t necessarily connected to the electrical instability, but simply to the way the blood isn’t getting sent back to the heart.

SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: But that again is linked to high estrogen causing the veins to distend and to swell up.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. Progesterone increases the smooth muscle tone in the wall of the veins. And so, if your progesterone is deficient, the veins bulge, [during any slight pressure on them. If you hold your hand at your waist, if your progesterone, and other things, are right. you won’t see your veins But if you’re low on progesterone, or under stress, even at waist level you’re likely to see bulgy veins.

SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So there you go, women. Here’s a good way to see if you’re aging or under stress: if your veins on the back of your hands are bulging at waist level. I frequently look at our clients and analyze what the veins in the back of their hands look like at that level to see how well the body is responding to supplementation.
(Herb Doctors: Palpitaitons And Cardiac Events)
-Ray Peat

Here's a discussion on fungus I found that provides information kind of contrary to what is commonly propagated in alternative medicine;
--
Speaker 7: Hi. So I have a question regarding the role of sugar in yeast infections and systemic fungal infections. And if a person has the systemic fungal infection whether they should be avoiding all kinds of sugar?
R.Peat: If, in general, things like the yeasts that cause both internal and external infections love sugar. But they’re usually about once or twice a year someone turns up who has a, a very intense infestation with the yeast even in their stomach. And when they eat sugar, they can actually get drunk from the fermentation turning the sugar into alcohol. But, but that getting drunk on sugar is about the worst effect of, of the sugar metabolism by the yeast. And when you starve yeast, if you have it living in your intestine and they’re attracted to estrogen. Estradiol is, is a reproductive hormone for yeast as it is for humans. If your estrogen is high, they tend to congregate in any place that is rich in estrogen. If you starve those for sugar, they tend to become invasive and they put out filaments, not like, like the mushroom type fungus, but a, a, a filament long enough to penetrate through cells like fingers reaching through your intestine walls looking for sugar. And that starvation condition is what can make them invade your tissues rather than just living free in your intestine. And it’s only when they invade your tissues that they can become deadly. And on your skin, low thyroid people often have high estrogen and that favors a genital yeast infections and correcting the thyroid and, and hormones is the basic thing. Eating a, a diet that, that helps to regulate your hormones. And topically just dusting with sulfur powder, flowers of sulfur or precipitated sulfur is the safe way to, to kill them on the surface. And it even works taking a pinch of it orally will suppress the fungal growth inside the intestine.
Speaker 7: Oh great. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So are you, are you saying Dr. Peat that if someone does have an overgrowth of, of fungus in their intestines that actually eating more sugar would feed the yeast and makes them happier, so they’re less invasive and less deadly?
R.Peat: Yeah, actually.
Speaker 1: What would you suggest to be a, a treatment, a good treatment for, for that?
R.Peat: Well, the carrot salad. The carrot is indigestible and, you know, how stale carrot takes weeks and weeks before it, it molds or never rots really. Speaker 1: That’s true.
R.Peat: That, that’s because it has anti-fungal, anti-bacterial chemicals in it because it lives in the ground.
Speaker 1: Okay.
R.Peat: And so if you grate a carrot and then put some oil, olive oil or coconut oil, and vinegar. Vinegar is a bacterial chemical that the acidic acid is the bacteria’s way of killing fungus and it’s a short saturated fatty acid. And so, the, the longer fatty acids of coconut oil and olive oil are bound to this indigestible fiber of the carrot and slowly release all the way down in your intestine. And they have a, a very profound safe disinfecting action on your intestine that will take care of not only the fungus but a lot of bad other types of organism.

(Herb Doctors: Sugar I)
Ray Peat
-----
What is nice about that l-i-g-h-t website is that you can search all the interviews for topics you're interested in. If you wanna download any episodes to listen to later you can find all of them here:Ray Peat related sites directory (MarshmalloW)
There's most of them posted on youtube and many with transcripts on the forum:https://raypeatforum.com/community/forums/audio-interview-transcripts.73/

 

[morgan#1]

Meatbag,

Thanks for reaching out to me. I knew about the fact that Ray goes (as usual) against the grain on sugars and bacterial infections. And I haven’t slowed down on fast acting carbs. Probably I average 450 g carbs per day, with a 100+ G protein.

It makes sense that the veins would be exacerbated by the estrogen overload. I’ve been doing all I know how to do, to balance my hormones...makes me realize how important a sound mind is! And I painfully realized that hormones are one of the primary keys.

My mind is a tricky thing. All these old patterns are unhealthily there, and it’s harder to shift them. Even harder now, perhaps, with my current struggle. And to take it take it back to the trying DMSO, it was an experiment, and one that didn’t work. I’ll get through it, keep plugging away. I’m glad to have mostly sound advice on this forum. I’ll exhaust other Peat things, before I’ll try the uncharted route.

P.s. One of the noticeable things I’ve found since my Peat diet, is that I can’t stomach mainstream society, I think it’s very dangerous and silly. It’s too bad we are all inundated by this crap. We’re all on this roller coaster ride together, some are screaming, some are laughing. Maybe intelligence, maybe not...

 

[morgan#1]

Meatbag,

Thanks for reaching out to me. I knew about the fact that Ray goes (as usual) against the grain on sugars and bacterial infections. That makes sense that the veins would be exacerbated by the estrogen overload. I’ve been doing all I know how to do, to balance my hormones...makes me realize how important a sound mind is! And I painfully realized that hormones influence everything in my body and head.

My mind is a tricky thing. All these old patterns are unhealthily there, and it’s harder to shift them. Even harder now, perhaps, with my current struggle. And to take it take it back to trying DMSO, it was an experiment, and one that didn’t work. I’ll get through it, keep plugging away. I’m glad to have mostly sound advise in this forum.

P.s. One of the noticeable things I’ve found since my Peat diet, is that I can’t stomach mainstream society. Now, it seems blatantly very dangerous and silly. It’s too bad we are all inundated by all this crap.

 

[Wagner83]

I seem to be intolerant to tomato paste. I can eat fresh tomatoes with no apparent trouble. I had been guessing mold or something in the ones that went into paste, but I guess this is another possibility for me.

What do you get from it? Breathing issues?

 

[tara]

And topically just dusting with sulfur powder, flowers of sulfur or precipitated sulfur is the safe way to, to kill them on the surface. And it even works taking a pinch of it orally will suppress the fungal growth inside the intestine.

What do you get from it? Breathing issues?

Dairy seems to make me feel a bit sick, low energy, and very foggy-brained, and can progress to migraines if too many stresses compound. Tomato paste seems to give me some similar symptoms.

 

[Waynish]

There is enough reports and information to be at least concerned about it, but that's just my opinion.

Don't want to change the subject, but that's how I feel about theanine.

 

[meatbag]

Meatbag,

Thanks for reaching out to me. I knew about the fact that Ray goes (as usual) against the grain on sugars and bacterial infections. That makes sense that the veins would be exacerbated by the estrogen overload. I’ve been doing all I know how to do, to balance my hormones...makes me realize how important a sound mind is! And I painfully realized that hormones influence everything in my body and head.

My mind is a tricky thing. All these old patterns are unhealthily there, and it’s harder to shift them. Even harder now, perhaps, with my current struggle. And to take it take it back to trying DMSO, it was an experiment, and one that didn’t work. I’ll get through it, keep plugging away. I’m glad to have mostly sound advise in this forum.

P.s. One of the noticeable things I’ve found since my Peat diet, is that I can’t stomach mainstream society. Now, it seems blatantly very dangerous and silly. It’s too bad we are all inundated by all this crap.

We are very lucky that there are people with such great minds, confidence, patience, mental fortitude, and generosity that have shared their efforts with everyone so that we can also try to share and help each other out :)

Yeah I understand what you mean, it can be hard sometimes to try to do what you think is best for yourself to get better and to also try to share what you think is good info while also trying not to become a subject of scorn for bucking the status-quo or a laughing stock for trying to do things a different way. I also find myself falling into old patterns and I think they might be set off by feelings of failure, inadequacy, loneliness, fear, and stress. Sometimes I find traumatic experiences coming back into my mind and obsessing over them, turning the past into the present. It is like a large bulk of "main stream" society is a culmination of a bunch of advertising/marketing campaigns and myths that everyone is subjected to and rarely questions.

There have been many discussions about dmso on this forum. I personally am not convinced that it is very harmful after reading the different info on here, even though I felt alarmed after that one medical case that was posted on the email advice thread but after looking into it didn't seemed dmso had any involvement in what was wrong, but everyone needs to guide themselves with their own experiences. For NO and histamine I think there are some posts on here and in the interviews about cyproheptadine that might be helpful.

 

[morgan#1]

Meatbag,

Thanks for your insight. For being 10 months in with my diet, I feel like I’ve turned many corners, or appropriately pulled back many layers of myself. Just wondering what now. If I’m starting to be aware of the dangers of society, I have to look at my place in it. What do I do now, being of somewhat sound mind and body. Hmm. I don’t have the enthusiastic rush of just starting with the diet, things go on. I guess I’m in that pondering phase. But I have thought and perceived as much as I can handle and now I’m supposed to “act”. I’m finding that’s a tall order, lol.

I have been to step groups and we all say “god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” When I get past the god issue, it baffles me. With my addiction, I thought it will be a fresh start in LA, so I moved there. Then I thought it will be a fresh start in 8-9 different states. Then I thought it will be a fresh start in Mexico, or Paris. I’m very smart but I’m an idiot when it comes to cravings and addiction! They follow me because they are ingrained in my mind. Duh. Now they’re not, and I need to let go of the old patterns.

Peat is old school, and he’s brilliant. And I’m sure he knows about the solvency of DMSO, I wonder why I can’t find anything that says he supports using it for topical supplements? I’m sick of being willy nilly with my body. I tried and it didn’t work for me. It wasn’t the end of the world, and I’m not sure that DMSO is a detriment, it could have been any number of things. But it was an experiment, I wish I could be one who said DMSO helped me.

Possibly he advocates the safest way, and he might do otherwise. He’s speaking to the general public, and if it were me I wouldn’t share in any experiments I had ongoing. He hasn’t said too much about DMSO, that I can find. And the things I see are cherry picked to denounce DMSO. I’m just in the waiting phase, I won’t take any DMSO internally again, it just aggravated my already inflamed system. I do have two of Haidut’s products with DMSO that never gave me any issue. And I will continue to use those.

Thanks again

 

[morgan#1]

I found something today that might help those in question (namely me!) using it. I found it on this site...it seems that Ray is not against using in small amounts as a solvent. Possibly something else irritated my system, I’m gonna wait until I attempt to take orally...

 

[Wagner83]

I found something today that might help those in question (namely me!) using it. I found it on this site...it seems that Ray is not against using in small amounts as a solvent. Possibly something else irritated my system, I’m gonna wait until I attempt to take orally...

Did you check all the links in the dmso poll thread in the idealabs subforum?
Many people reported side effects (while others didn't) from it, sometimes after using it for a while which makes it difficult to identify the problem. Of course it's still possible you were wrong and it was a coincidence.
I'm not sure ray was talking about daily use, in any case what he says is one thing and what we do or notice can be an other. (hopefully) .