Progest E Or Pregnenolone?

[SAFarmer]

I was throwing around a theory in my head last night. Ok, so we know progesterone wakes up the estrogen receptors when you start taking it.

How do we know that Charlie ? Apart from the fact that Ray Peat does not seem to be a believer in the "receptor" theory when it comes to the effect of hormones on cells, I cannot remember having read that theory before from one of his articles?

 

[charlie]

"He" is actually a she it seems, Wray Whyte, http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/natu ... z2gvVBgBpu

Anyway, I have read somewhere there that she also recommends Tryptophan supplementation as anti-depressant and am not so sure how good that is ...

Oops, I stand corrected.

Now I regret posting that site as It does have some bad information intertwined with the good. Better off keeping it Peaty.

 

[charlie]

I was throwing around a theory in my head last night. Ok, so we know progesterone wakes up the estrogen receptors when you start taking it.

How do we know that Charlie ? Apart from the fact that Ray Peat does not seem to be a believer in the "receptor" theory when it comes to the effect of hormones on cells, I cannot remember having read that theory before from one of his articles?

Maybe instead of the "receptors" "waking up" instead the estrogen is being aggressive and pushing back against the progesterone harder?? I dunno. I admit I do not know much about this part of Peat so please forgive my ignorance.

Thank you for keeping it Peaty. I have just started looking into the estrogen part of it so I definitely have some learning to do.

 

[charlie]

[offtopic]Off topic but Wray from the site I mentioned above does give Ray Peat a mention:
http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/youv ... z2go5MKhdH[/offtopic]

 

[SAFarmer]

I would not criticize her for the website, it has a lot of good information on there as well. It is just commercially orientated imo and she does dot give Ray Peat the credit that he is due, a lot like that Andrew Kim guy. She mentions Dr John Lee prominently in her list of references, but not Peat, although John Lee learned all his knowledge of progesterone from Dr Peat ! After all, why would you not go to the master of hormone research directly, especially on progesterone, ie Ray Peat ?

 

[mayart]

I breastfeed for 11 years of my life, and my last child I had, she breastfed for a longer time than my 3 sons. So subsequently I had one breast which was a normal size and my other breast permanently shrunk down to half the size of less of the normal sized breast. So I was deformed really at this point. I went to Macy's and bought a nice fake breast to implant into my bra, so no one could tell. Yet, I could not wear a bikini and this whole situation was very disturbing on what to do indeed. For this situation I experienced can be normal for women if the baby favors one side I found out later.
YET--- THE MIRACLE Happened because of Mr. Ray Peat's health studies, I so faithfully have followed. Within 6 months of following a RP program, I grew back my lost breast to a perfect size, that matches my other breast. I did take Pregnenolone each day, and the breast grew back with zero ProgestE intake or thyroid. Just the diet alone with the pregnenolone worked. OH my heaven I am so happy, for now at my 2 year mark, My breasts are normal and the same even to a greater degree. I run around in my bikini again and THREW OUT the Fake breast filler for my bra. I do not have to wear a bra even. I am soooo thrilled. I know this is a subject that is for women but men can read this for their wives and girlfriends to know this information is 100%v true and accurate. I have always been on a health diet my entire life but I am sold on the results I am having. I am starting to feel my dream of living to be very old is going to come true. I am so happy.Thank you Ray Peat and to my sons who insisted I try these studies.

 

[SAFarmer]

YET--- THE MIRACLE Happened because of Mr. Ray Peat's health studies, I so faithfully have followed. Within 6 months of following a RP program, I grew back my lost breast to a perfect size, that matches my other breast. I did take Pregnenolone each day, and the breast grew back with zero ProgestE intake or thyroid. Just the diet alone with the pregnenolone worked.

I am very happy with you !

My sister is struggling with infertility (could be the husband as well ...) so I recommended she take pregnenolone at first and later Progesterone cream. She stopped the pregnenolone after short while but continued to use the progesterone liberally. She has not got pregnant , yet... but she likes the way her breasts have grown, as does her husband !

 

[j.]

Maybe instead of the "receptors" "waking up" instead the estrogen is being aggressive and pushing back against the progesterone harder?? I dunno. I admit I do not know much about this part of Peat so please forgive my ignorance.

Thank you for keeping it Peaty. I have just started looking into the estrogen part of it so I definitely have some learning to do.

With progesterone you retain less sodium, so unless you increase your salt intake, you might be low in sodium at some point, and if you stop taking it, then aldosterone might increase to retain more salt.

 

[charlie]

Maybe instead of the "receptors" "waking up" instead the estrogen is being aggressive and pushing back against the progesterone harder?? I dunno. I admit I do not know much about this part of Peat so please forgive my ignorance.

Thank you for keeping it Peaty. I have just started looking into the estrogen part of it so I definitely have some learning to do.

With progesterone you retain less sodium, so unless you increase your salt intake, you might be low in sodium at some point, and if you stop taking it, then aldosterone might increase to retain more salt.

Interesting. Thanks j.

Btw, I have went with straight progesterone and no pregnenolone to see how that goes. This is day 2 of that.

 

[j.]

Once I took 100 mg of progesterone, because I bought a capsule designed for pregnant women and took half. You definitely feel very relaxed.

I craved salt like crazy, consumed some, and a few moments later I craved salt again, so I consumed it again and so on. But this was shortly after my milk alkali episode when my kidney was recovering, maybe that enhanced some effect. I think at some point also my potassium increased too much, and every little sugar started bothering me. (again, the context of this is one of a recovering kidney)

 

[j.]

Btw, I have went with straight progesterone and no pregnenolone to see how that goes. This is day 2 of that.

What's your dose?

 

[charlie]

From watching the forum it seems that some of us have estrogen rise when we start on thyroid supplementing. Within 1 day of taking progest-e my horribly bad breakout of dermatitis started miraculously healing. It was healing so fast that I could actually feel it in my skin as it shrunk, it was pretty crazy.

Speculation here: So for some reason my liver gets bogged down, and estrogen rises too much, or vice versa, and I get this dermatitis. I also have signs of estrogen dominance that seemed to get worse after starting Peat. So, for some reason for some of us estrogen shoots up, along with cortisol causing us to have that flabby fat around the belly(hello narouz), and man boobs for the guys. So I think some of us will need to crush the estrogen rise that happens for whatever reason it decided to happen, when we start Peating/taking thyroid supplements.

Oh and I decided to take progest-e via the nose today. Wow!!! With my regular dose of 10 drops it made me feel like I took a couple valiums. I was definitely drugged up! No energy though so that stunk. But anyways, I will be doing more nose applications because the progest-e works really well that way and I can use less of it.

 

[charlie]

Btw, I have went with straight progesterone and no pregnenolone to see how that goes. This is day 2 of that.

What's your dose?

Around 100mgs a day right now. 10 to 12 drops 3 times a day. I plan on backing off soon though to see what happens.

 

[j.]

In a recent email posted in the forum Peat mentioned the combination of thyroid, progesterone, and aspirin to reduce estrogen.

 

[j.]

Around 100mgs a day right now. 10 to 12 drops 3 times a day. I plan on backing off soon though to see what happens.

With that dose I REALLY FEEL the progesterone (or lack of estrogen).

 

[charlie]

In a recent email posted in the forum Peat mentioned the combination of thyroid, progesterone, and aspirin to reduce estrogen.

Yes, I saw that and started aspirin a couple days ago. One problem I had in the past when I took aspirin was my dermatitis would spring up again so I would have to stop every time after a couple days. Strange, since it should quell estrogen, maybe it pushed against the estrogen and the estrogen pushed back harder? I wish I knew what was happening there. This time no sign of dermatitis yet. Will keep posted.

 

[charlie]

Around 100mgs a day right now. 10 to 12 drops 3 times a day. I plan on backing off soon though to see what happens.

With that dose I REALLY FEEL the progesterone (or lack of estrogen).

Oh, I REALLY feel it.

 

[j.]

Yes, I saw that and started aspirin a couple days ago. One problem I had in the past when I took aspirin was my dermatitis would spring up again so I would have to stop every time after a couple days. Strange, since it should quell estrogen, maybe it pushed against the estrogen and the estrogen pushed back harder? I wish I knew what was happening there. This time no sign of dermatitis yet. Will keep posted.

Maybe aspirin + progesterone does the trick? Also, do you consume chocolate? If you're serious about reducing estrogen, I think avoiding chocolate would be good. I recall that Ray Peat advises milk with chocolate because the milk reduces some of the bad (estrogenic) effects of chocolate.

 

[charlie]

No, chocolate seems to effect me badly so I have cut it out. Might be because of the estrogen effects now that you mention it.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Take both.
When you have estrogen dominance you really badly need progesterone so I would just take both.

Are you sure about that? Because I am pretty sure I have estrogen dominance going on and I just started attacking it with progesterone. And I was not sure if to continue with pregnenolone.

Yes, I knew she's female; it's not the same for males; I meant I think she should take both not that everyone should. When I say she should take both I'm basing that on this quote from RP:
"But when you have been poisoned with not enough of the needed foods, or too much of the unsaturated oils, heavy metals, causing free radical reactions and so on, then it helps to use all of the supports possible, thyroid supplements, pregnenolone supplements, possibly dhea and progesterone, saturated fats, sugar, everything that works in the same direction."

Also, pregnenolone makes whatever you're short on; dhea or progesterone. So if you're estrogen dominant then you are for sure low on progesterone.
But you could also just use lots of Progest -E as well; and it's totally harmless in females; she can basically take as much as she wants.