Progest E Or Pregnenolone?

Peata

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I'm currently taking the recommended high doses of Progest-E for 10 day, and will taper off some later, as explained in RP's Progest-E instructions. Bear with me, I have a few bits of info for background, and then some questions.

I think my estrogen has been very high since my last period and maybe continued to be high, as I had severe cramps one night during period and had slightly fibrocystic breasts AFTER the period, which hasn't occurred before - breast pain was always before/during.

I've been taking small amounts of aspirin for over a week now to keep estrogen down, and it may be helping. It's hard to tell what's helping because I'm in the first half of cycle when things are usually better anyway (higher progesterone naturally at this time). I just know I don't look or feel as bloated in belly & breasts as I have been for some time.

When I first started to try the high dose ProgestE a few weeks ago, I had unpleasant side effects that made me discontinue it. This time I have no side effects from Progest E. I feel fine. Any idea why?

The only thing I can come up with off the top of my head is that when I started it before, I was in the 2nd half of cycle where progesterone is low so maybe there was too much estrogen "fighting against it"? And this time I started Progest E before ovulation and so there's more progesterone there anyway and things are more balanced? Other ideas?

My other question has to do with pregnenolone. I read good things and not so good things about this. I don't know if I should just skip the progesterone and take pregnenolone since it makes the hormones you need anyway. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's pondered which to take. Any thoughts on the good/bad of taking pregnenolone instead of progesterone when you have estrogen dominance?
 

tomisonbottom

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Take both.
When you have estrogen dominance you really badly need progesterone so I would just take both.
 

charlie

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tomisonbottom said:
Take both.
When you have estrogen dominance you really badly need progesterone so I would just take both.

Are you sure about that? Because I am pretty sure I have estrogen dominance going on and I just started attacking it with progesterone. And I was not sure if to continue with pregnenolone.
 
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Charlie, i think your doubts are justified. Particularly in men, my own experience suggests that pregnenolone can lead to an increase in estrogen if the overall metabolic rate is low and/or you have significant fat tissue. My guess would be that in women it could favor estrogen too.

I am happy to report that Progest-E has gotten rid of all my estrogenic signs. To control estrogen I would commend the use of Progest-E at least till the thyroid function is normalized based on basal body temperature and pulse.
 

charlie

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unexamined_whimsy said:
Charlie, i think your doubts are justified. Particularly in men, my own experience suggests that pregnenolone can lead to an increase in estrogen if the overall metabolic rate is low and/or you have significant fat tissue. My guess would be that in women it could favor estrogen too.

I am happy to report that Progest-E has gotten rid of all my estrogenic signs. To control estrogen I would commend the use of Progest-E at least till the thyroid function is normalized based on basal body temperature and pulse.
Thank you for sharing!

Over the last few days I have come to the realization that I am becoming more and more estrogen dominant. I started taking pregnenolone a month or so ago. So maybe it seems that pregnenolone did in fact make me more estrogen dominant. I still have a decent amount of fat on me, and I also have a very low metabolism although improving.

Ok, so my attacking it with progesterone is the right thing to do. I will be dropping the pregnenolone.

Do you mind sharing how you dosed?
 
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Progest-E: i take a 3/4 teaspoon before bedtime and the same on waking. Alternatively, one bottle of Progest-E lasts me a fortnight.

If you feel sleepy and/or you get lowered libido with the Progest-E then you should reduce the dosage.
 

iLoveSugar

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unexamined_whimsy said:
Progest-E: i take a 3/4 teaspoon before bedtime and the same on waking. Alternatively, one bottle of Progest-E lasts me a fortnight.

If you feel sleepy and/or you get lowered libido with the Progest-E then you should reduce the dosage.

Can I ask what symptoms it helped with? And what is a fortnight?

I'd be interested to hear Rays thoughts on pregnenolone turning into estrogen? Has anyone cared to ask him?
 
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Progest-E completely got rid of the typical symptoms associated with a low estrogen/progesterone ratio. My symptoms were fat deposition around the chest, loose wobbly 'fat' (water retention), irritability, sluggishness, feeling very hot/sweaty at 3 am (despite having cold feet all day) and waking up to snack and urinate.

A fortnight is a period of two weeks.
 

jyb

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unexamined_whimsy said:
Progest-E: i take a 3/4 teaspoon before bedtime and the same on waking. Alternatively, one bottle of Progest-E lasts me a fortnight.

If you feel sleepy and/or you get lowered libido with the Progest-E then you should reduce the dosage.

Never used such a high amount (I'm a male), I noticed that just a few drops every hour is enough to help on bad days. I take it on the lips for quick absorption and because its only a few drops at a time. I decided to try that instead of pregnelonone as the latter didn't seem to be doing good things to me.
 

charlie

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unexamined_whimsy said:
Progest-E completely got rid of the typical symptoms associated with a low estrogen/progesterone ratio. My symptoms were fat deposition around the chest, loose wobbly 'fat' (water retention), irritability, sluggishness, feeling very hot/sweaty at 3 am (despite having cold feet all day) and waking up to snack and urinate.

Yep, I got all those bolded and they were getting worse and worse the deeper I went into pregnenolone supplementing. I am not saying thats the for sure reason it happened, but it is definitely suspect. I was also getting nauseous, dermatitis breakout, and just an all around bad feeling. I started supplementing progesterone a couple days ago and things are already improving.
 

jyb

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Charlie said:

Avoid...

large meals (due to the increased metabolic clearance rate of progesterone)
all forms of oestrogen
oxidised fats, (ie margarine, refined oils, and fried foods, in particular fried animal protein)
pasteurised, homogenised milk
all non-organic dairy products and animal protein. Factory farms use growth hormones and especially estrogen as it causes a rapid increase in fat deposits
tap water, which is now contaminated with prescription drugs, including oestrogen from the Pill and HRT, plus the oestrogen mimics generated by industry.

Pretty Peaty, except possibly dairy. What's with large meals increasing clearance of progesterone? I tend to avoid large meals for better digestion.
 

charlie

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jyb said:
Charlie said:

Avoid...

large meals (due to the increased metabolic clearance rate of progesterone)
all forms of oestrogen
oxidised fats, (ie margarine, refined oils, and fried foods, in particular fried animal protein)
pasteurised, homogenised milk
all non-organic dairy products and animal protein. Factory farms use growth hormones and especially estrogen as it causes a rapid increase in fat deposits
tap water, which is now contaminated with prescription drugs, including oestrogen from the Pill and HRT, plus the oestrogen mimics generated by industry.

Pretty Peaty. What's with large meals increasing clearance of progesterone? I tend to avoid large meals for better digestion.

Yeh, I was going to comment about it being fairly Peaty, but still some things are not.

I wondered about the big meal warning too.
 

mayart

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I take the Progest E, about 12 to 14 days into my cycle. I started on the Pregnenolone, and it had helped me a lot, even with estrogen being to high. So when I went onto the Progest E I stopped taking the Pregnenolone, yet, my body still needed it because I had other issues that reoccurred without using both. I must add that 1 month I lowered my dose of Progest E, to only 1 to 3 drops a day, where I was taking 6 drops a day. When I lowered the ProgestE I had an estrogen side affect happen so I went up on my dose again. I will watch my body to see if pregnenolone is making more estrogen, now that I read what Charlie wrote. I am going start taking more coconut oil, and thyroid . I am going to take my temperature and pulse, more often again after I eat. I am going to try to take more kosher salt and continue on my quart or more of raw milk a day. I use gelatin in my coffee with milk and honey. Taking Gelatin in cooked and blended boiled parsley that is then strained is very nice too. I have not eaten meat for 8 to 10 years and I may start on liver at least 1 day a month. The vitamin K has become so important too, I can feel a big difference if I try to get the Vitamin K from cooked strained greens like parsley alone. I must add on Ray peat's research I have gained 15 lbs, and it is, like, "Oh well. what can you do"? I guess one day it will come off again , maybe not. I have also grown this beautiful head of thick healthy hair that is to my waist , which I could never grow before, or could before in my life , of being on Ray Peat's program, Thanks-- ;)
 

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charlie

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SAFarmer said:
Charlie said:
I don't know Charlie, it seems it is more a marketing site for their product NatPro progesterone cream. Looking at it's ingredients, it also does not look that efficient to me. According to Ray Peat progesterone crystalizes out of water and it does not get absorbed in the body then.

http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z2gvVBgBpu
Each tube contains : de-ionised water

I agree. I was looking more into the site last night and it definitely is marketed towards selling his progesterone cream. However, that being said there is still some good information on there. But I would definitely not be buying his cream.

The guy also recognizes that high prolactin is a big issue. He says that progesterone will help bring down prolactin, IIRC.
 

charlie

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I was throwing around a theory in my head last night. Ok, so we know progesterone wakes up the estrogen receptors when you start taking it. So it makes the estrogen dominance even worse for some people when they start up on progesterone. I am wondering if this is what is happening with pregnenolone also. It is waking up the estrogen receptors, but is not strong enough to push through the dominance like progesterone can?

Needless to say. I am 3 days into supplementing progesterone, and my estrogen dominance symptoms are quickly diminishing. However, up until yesterday I was still using pregnenolone. So I am trying to figure out if I should continue with the pregnenolone along with the progesterone. :confused
 

HDD

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mayart said:
I take the Progest E, about 12 to 14 days into my cycle. I started on the Pregnenolone, and it had helped me a lot, even with estrogen being to high. So when I went onto the Progest E I stopped taking the Pregnenolone, yet, my body still needed it because I had other issues that reoccurred without using both. I must add that 1 month I lowered my dose of Progest E, to only 1 to 3 drops a day, where I was taking 6 drops a day. When I lowered the ProgestE I had an estrogen side affect happen so I went up on my dose again. I will watch my body to see if pregnenolone is making more estrogen, now that I read what Charlie wrote. I am going start taking more coconut oil, and thyroid . I am going to take my temperature and pulse, more often again after I eat. I am going to try to take more kosher salt and continue on my quart or more of raw milk a day. I use gelatin in my coffee with milk and honey. Taking Gelatin in cooked and blended boiled parsley that is then strained is very nice too. I have not eaten meat for 8 to 10 years and I may start on liver at least 1 day a month. The vitamin K has become so important too, I can feel a big difference if I try to get the Vitamin K from cooked strained greens like parsley alone. I must add on Ray peat's research I have gained 15 lbs, and it is, like, "Oh well. what can you do"? I guess one day it will come off again , maybe not. I have also grown this beautiful head of thick healthy hair that is to my waist , which I could never grow before, or could before in my life , of being on Ray Peat's program, Thanks-- ;)

That is awesome that your hair has improved so much. I was wondering about your choice of parsley. I used to make green smoothies with parsley and mango and also a parsley/cilantro salad. I do enjoy the taste of it raw. I had never thought about a broth from it. Do you boil only the parsley? I also have added at least 15 lbs,but as you said maybe it will come off or maybe not.
 

SAFarmer

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Charlie said:
SAFarmer said:
Charlie said:
I don't know Charlie, it seems it is more a marketing site for their product NatPro progesterone cream. Looking at it's ingredients, it also does not look that efficient to me. According to Ray Peat progesterone crystalizes out of water and it does not get absorbed in the body then.

http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z2gvVBgBpu
Each tube contains : de-ionised water

I agree. I was looking more into the site last night and it definitely is marketed towards selling his progesterone cream. However, that being said there is still some good information on there. But I would definitely not be buying his cream.

The guy also recognizes that high prolactin is a big issue. He says that progesterone will help bring down prolactin, IIRC.

"He" is actually a she it seems, Wray Whyte, http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/natu ... z2gvVBgBpu

Anyway, I have read somewhere there that she also recommends Tryptophan supplementation as anti-depressant and am not so sure how good that is ...
 
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