Progest E Or Pregnenolone?

[unexamined_whimsy]

I have experimented with Aspirin (up to 3gm/day) too for reducing estrogen but all it led to was a worsening of symptoms just like thyroid. After all, aspirin mimics the thyroid pretty closely and indeed there are old studies of its effectiveness as an ersatz for thyroid. I think in susceptible individuals thyroid elevates SHBG which is followed by an increase in testosterone and therefore increase in the amount of aromatization to estrogen. It appears that in such cases the increase in progesterone cannot compensate and so must be supplemented if you want to increase the metabolic rate consistently. This is probably at the heart of why many of us don't respond to thyroid in a straight-forward manner.

Perhaps in the medium to long term, the course of thyroid+progesterone can be replaced by thyroid-only, apart from which I really see no options besides Big-Pharma aromatase inhibitors in quelling estrogen.

 

[Mastemah]

One of the reasons people can appear to get worse when taking powerful supplements is that they get healthier quickly, depleting A, zinc, Bs, protein and carbs. Sometimes when you do the right things negative reactions are a positive sign of a forward moving metabolism. :)

 

[aquaman]

Progest-E completely got rid of the typical symptoms associated with a low estrogen/progesterone ratio. My symptoms were fat deposition around the chest, loose wobbly 'fat' (water retention), irritability, sluggishness, feeling very hot/sweaty at 3 am (despite having cold feet all day) and waking up to snack and urinate.

Super interesting!

 

[Peata]

Speculation here: So for some reason my liver gets bogged down, and estrogen rises too much, or vice versa, and I get this dermatitis. I also have signs of estrogen dominance that seemed to get worse after starting Peat. So, for some reason for some of us estrogen shoots up, along with cortisol causing us to have that flabby fat around the belly(hello narouz), and man boobs for the guys. So I think some of us will need to crush the estrogen rise that happens for whatever reason it decided to happen, when we start Peating/taking thyroid supplements.

I think this is close to what happens to me. I feel that my liver has been bogged down again for some time. I've developed that itchy scalp and forehead that drives me crazy. Other symptoms too. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't having RP foods and taking Vitex and supplement.

Since yesterday I'm focusing on getting my liver in top shape once again.

 

[j.]

I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't having RP foods and taking Vitex and supplement.

Without Peating I think I'd be dead.

 

[jyb]

Speculation here: So for some reason my liver gets bogged down, and estrogen rises too much, or vice versa, and I get this dermatitis. I also have signs of estrogen dominance that seemed to get worse after starting Peat. So, for some reason for some of us estrogen shoots up, along with cortisol causing us to have that flabby fat around the belly(hello narouz), and man boobs for the guys. So I think some of us will need to crush the estrogen rise that happens for whatever reason it decided to happen, when we start Peating/taking thyroid supplements.

I think this is close to what happens to me. I feel that my liver has been bogged down again for some time. I've developed that itchy scalp and forehead that drives me crazy. Other symptoms too. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't having RP foods and taking Vitex and supplement.

Since yesterday I'm focusing on getting my liver in top shape once again.

I believe that the only times when I felt as bad or worse then before since following RP was when I was experiment with the extras (eg. aspirin & K2). Otherwise, with diet-only measures I feel better than before, and sometimes much better with some of the extras (red light, a lot of coffee etc). So the comments of unexamined_whimsy are a plausible explanation: with a metabolism so messed up, even things that could be good for a borderline hypo person could be bad for me. There are other plausible explanations, such as not handling the K2 supplements well.

 

[mayart]

Progesterone and Vita B-12 and B-6 , I can not tell you how much these 2 vitamins made a difference for me, along with taking more Kosher salt for getting rid of water retention even mild retention. I have keep up on the salt like a job on the side it seems but it helps me so much with everything that Peat's talks about on Progesterone and Milk. The salt lowers my adrenaline, and it is key I found.

 

[readforjoy]

Mayart, I know exactly what you mean about keeping up on salt like a job on the side! It is a chore, but it does help so much. I just started writing it on my day planner each day to make sure I don't forget.

 

[staytuned]

Speculation here: So for some reason my liver gets bogged down, and estrogen rises too much, or vice versa, and I get this dermatitis. I also have signs of estrogen dominance that seemed to get worse after starting Peat. So, for some reason for some of us estrogen shoots up, along with cortisol causing us to have that flabby fat around the belly(hello narouz), and man boobs for the guys. So I think some of us will need to crush the estrogen rise that happens for whatever reason it decided to happen, when we start Peating/taking thyroid supplements.

I think this is close to what happens to me. I feel that my liver has been bogged down again for some time. I've developed that itchy scalp and forehead that drives me crazy. Other symptoms too. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't having RP foods and taking Vitex and supplement.

Since yesterday I'm focusing on getting my liver in top shape once again.

So in crushing estrogen dominance, what is better, Progest-E or Pregnenolone?

 

[Lin]

If the body can make pregnenolone into DHEA, wouldn't all the cautions about DHEA be applicable? I mean, is there a possibility it could increase estrogen levels?
With progesterone, you get what you get.
However, after reading all the testimonials, I took my first dose of pregnenolone today, hoping to clear the brain fog. Can't tell if it has done anything, so my logic may be way off :?

 

[j.]

Excess pregnenolone apparently is just not used.

Peat thinks pregnenolone is one of the safest supplements to take and it's safe at ANY dose. He mentioned experiments with rats when they filled their stomachs with pregnenolone with no ill effects. He took 1 gram daily I don't remember for how long. But he advises 100 mg as the starting dose.

 

[staytuned]

Can anyone link/recommend a good source?

 

[readforjoy]

I've been taking pregnenolone for the past 7 months. It helped quite a bit at first with energy and brainfog, but after a couple months, my estrogen dominant symptoms started getting way worse and the brainfog came back. My estrogen test a month ago showed high amounts. I wish I had tested my estrogen prior to starting the pregnenolone so I could compare. My naturopath and myself both think that too much of the pregnenolone converted to estrogen. I've now stopped the pregnenolone and have switched to high doses of progesterone and am doing better.

 

[mayart]

I never worry to much about taking a the supplements that makes a program for myself off of Ray Peat studies. I do not worry to much about passing symptoms because when I persist with the diet things change, The body changes. I do what I am comfortable with and try to improve taking more salt and Vitamins, eating my carrot with more coconut oil. These things helps A LOT. Protein is major for me, and I need at least 80 grams a day so that is work and takes a lot of eating, I feel full sometimes but have to take more food for protein a few hours later then repeat itself. I am trying ALL the things Ray Peat says in his articles to see how the change works before I would feel I should email him. If I am making to much cortisol for a time or something or taking progeste each day and it suppresses my cycle I do not stress. I took the progeste a few time s to soon . I have no signs of menopause, or any hot flashes or anything, so if my stomach is a little fat sometimes in time that will go away I know, and I just wear cute clothes for a woman hiding a little stomach. Thanks, amy, I wanted to share my thoughts so you can reflect or anyone can.

 

[Ben]

Progesterone reduces estrogen and DHT. The decrease in DHT can "shrink the penis like a cold shower" according to RP, but it's also the hormone that makes the voice deeper and penis longer during puberty. In my opinion, a deep voice and a long penis are not important at all compared to progesterone's benefits. In addition, progesterone is the hormone that extends lifespan, and RP has mentioned that women live longer than men because they have more of it.

Pregnenolone probably reduces luteinizing hormone (LH) because the testicles no longer have to produce as much pregnenolone from cholesterol. I had testicular pain that occured multiple times per day, which were sharp and random in nature, as opposed to dull and constant. I tried pregnenolone because I had the hypothesis above, and indeed it completely eliminated the pain. When I stop taking it for a few days, the pain comes back. I don't think progest-E would have this benefit. However, pregnenolone has little or no effect even at high doses if there is no stressful stimuli, it's kind of a "stress-suppressor".

 

[jyb]

Progesterone reduces estrogen and DHT. The decrease in DHT can "shrink the penis like a cold shower" according to RP, but it's also the hormone that makes the voice deeper and penis longer during puberty. In my opinion, a deep voice and a long penis are not important at all compared to progesterone's benefits. In addition, progesterone is the hormone that extends lifespan, and RP has mentioned that women live longer than men because they have more of it.

Pregnenolone probably reduces luteinizing hormone (LH) because the testicles no longer have to produce as much pregnenolone from cholesterol. I had testicular pain that occured multiple times per day, which were sharp and random in nature, as opposed to dull and constant. I tried pregnenolone because I had the hypothesis above, and indeed it completely eliminated the pain. When I stop taking it for a few days, the pain comes back. I don't think progest-E would have this benefit. However, pregnenolone has little or no effect even at high doses if there is no stressful stimuli, it's kind of a "stress-suppressor".

I'm a male and I tried progesterone, pregnelonone and DHEA one after the other. I like progesterone in emergencies when I'm very hypothyroid, for example with poor cognitive abilities it will help my brain to function and focus again, but it doesn't really do anything to temperatures and wouldn't use it long term continuously in case it reduces testosterone.

I didn't notice anything positive from pregnelonone. DHEA was good though, sort of suppresses inappropriate stress, for example after walking up some stairs my heart rate and breathing will return to normal faster.

 

[Blossom]

I personally like the powdered pregnenalone that I buy from ark of wellness and it comes with the purity analysis. I've been taking pregnenalone for about 5 months with good results. I'm female and take both it and progest-e. I no longer take it everyday but do not worry about that because it is supposed to stay in your system about one week. I can tell it makes a difference although it is hard to describe. You know how sometimes you don't realize you felt bad until you feel better? That's how it works for me, I just feel better if I take it a couple times a week.

 

[Kray]

Blossom: I am post-menopause. I have done both progesterone and pregnenolone at various times. I wonder for someone my age if it is best to just stick with progesterone, especially if you're not sure that pregnenolone might lean towards estrogen or androgens. I'm not really sure how to tell, but sometimes I have more facial hair problems it seems when I've taken pregnenolone for any length of time. Anyone out there doing these supplements and is menopausal, I'd really appreciate your feedback. Also, I diet with pro-thyroid foods and so far I have had pretty good thyroid indicators such as good temps and pulse of about 80. Do I need anything more than the good foods? Thanks-

 

[j.]

sometimes I have more facial hair problems it seems when I've taken pregnenolone for any length of time.

What's your dose? I wonder if taking too little could produce enough progesterone to increase sensitivity to estrogen but not enough to make you feel good?

 

[Blossom]

Blossom: I am post-menopause. I have done both progesterone and pregnenolone at various times. I wonder for someone my age if it is best to just stick with progesterone, especially if you're not sure that pregnenolone might lean towards estrogen or androgens. I'm not really sure how to tell, but sometimes I have more facial hair problems it seems when I've taken pregnenolone for any length of time. Anyone out there doing these supplements and is menopausal, I'd really appreciate your feedback. Also, I diet with pro-thyroid foods and so far I have had pretty good thyroid indicators such as good temps and pulse of about 80. Do I need anything more than the good foods? Thanks-

I still take both but Progest-e would seem a more direct way to prevent estrogen from aromatizing to androgens that could lead to facial hair. I doubt that pregnenalone is causing that but since it takes hair a little time to go through the follicle it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly what was going on when the hair was developing below the surface. I try to be mindful of environmental estrogens as well such as avoiding plastics and buying organic when possible. It all adds up but you still have to find a workable balance. I think the pro-thyroid diet, Progest-e and pregnenalone have all helped me tremendously. I am happy to feel feminine again, free from bothersome facial hair(which I had with PCOS) and loving life! RP is a wonderful advocate for women by helping us restore balance through safe and effective lifestyle and dietary approaches. It sound like you on the right path to me.