Progest E Or Pregnenolone?

[Kray]

I think I understand the pregnenolone basis. I guess it will be very individual anyway, since it is a precursor, not one of the direct hormones. And thanks for your experiences with red light. btw- have you found it matters what time of day you use it? I might say that when I have done it in the evening, I didn't fall to sleep as easily, and may not have gotten quite the sound sleep I normally do. I had stopped using it when my skin issues got out of hand but now I am back to doing it. I never thought it was the cause because I had the problems prior to my purchase of it, but stopped to see if it was a potential source. It wasn't imo. I will consider pregnenolone after I've given the thyroid/progest a chance.

Another thing-- you had mentioned to divide my doses of thyroid (I'm taking OTC). I have been doing 1/2 with breakfast and the other at lunch. Do you think this spacing is adequate, or should I take the 2nd dose with dinner? I took it later in the evening last night and I didn't sleep very well. I had also taken a Benadryl for the skin rash so I don't know which it might have been. It was surprising that I didn't settle down even an hour after taking the Benadryl. So has me thinking the thyroid needs to be taken earlier. ? Would you think it a good idea to take each thyroid dose with a 1/2 dose of my progest-e? I had thought about increasing my progest since taking the thyroid but I think the thyroid might enhance the progest, causing me to need less. I think I read that somewhere-- my brain is getting fuzzy on all of this.

Thanks for the point :) I'm still getting used to all the bells and whistles on this forum and feel like a blind person trying to use everything, but I'm slowly catching on with "practice"! Thanks so much--

 

[Blossom]

I remembered reading on the forum that RP does not recommend antihistamines every day so although I was telling you what I do that may not be what he would recommend. I just wanted to mention that since technically if that post is correct then what I am doing may not be optimal. Some people sleep better with thyroid before bed but I have to take my last dose by mid afternoon. It seems to be a very individual situation. I have also read where some people sleep under the lights but I don't and mainly have not tried out of courtesy to my husband. The bag breathing is about all he can take! One day I needed to jot something down and I grabbed my brown paper bag and he asked me jokingly if I had written instructions to remove if unconsciousness occurs! It seems from what I've read on the forum and what Ray himself has suggested that thyroid should be taken in smaller more physiological doses. I've had 2 consultations with the lady on RP's link page and she said the light is especially important to use before bed due to the stress of darkness which makes sense. When I started this and things were improving I wanted to have an appointment with Ray himself but he had already stopped doing those so I contacted the biochemnordic which he obviously highly recommends or he wouldn't have it on his site. For me it felt very critical to get some input besides what I was reading on line. I wouldn't have gotten this far without Ray Peat sharing his work so generously with so many people. There is a lot of great information out there and the forum to me is one of the best resources to know what other people are doing and how they have been helped. I can tell that I am still changing but now it is for the better instead of a rapid decline. I truly lost what are often thought of as the best years of our lives ( mid 20's to just 6 month ago) and never thought I would have my health back. Now I can say that I never felt this well even as a small child.
We should all approach this in a way that works for our own unique situation and then readjust accordingly as we heal (imo).

 

[HDD]

"The excess cortisol of depression, old age, and hyperestrogenism often comes down with use of a thyroid supplement, but pregnenolone has a very direct action (in opposition to serotonin) that can quiet the pituitary, reducing ACTH and cortisol. Progesterone has some similar effects, and is protective against excess cortisol, and is a major factor in nerve and brain restoration. Thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone are all involved in the formation of new myelin, and in the prevention of the edema that damages it."

Since thyroid and progesterone decrease the formation of estrogen in inflamed tissue, while cortisol stimulates its formation, it would seem wise to use thyroid and progesterone for their immediate antiinflammatory effects, which include the inhibition of NO formation (Drew and Chavez, 2000), and their lack of the excitotoxic, estrogen-stimulating effects of the glucocorticoids. While the glucocorticoids are catabolic and liberate cysteine and tryptophan from muscles, thyroid and progesterone are not catabolic, and protect against the toxic consequences of those amino acids.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml

 

[HDD]

This post about pregnenolone came to mind.
Birdie wrote:
Peatarian, you say you have noticed that sometimes pregnenolone is transformed into cortisol. Did Peat discuss this? Do you know if it was in a newsletter?

"No, it hasn't been in a newsletter. I know of a man who asked him in an e-mail about it.
It's the reason I cannot use pregnenolone.
But then as a woman you have the possibility of using progest-e-complex and these effects are very obvious to me. I can't imagine going anywhere without a bottle."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=227&hilit=Progesterone&start=10

And another quote from Peatarian-
".... One easy trick to prevent conversion to cortisol would be to use pregnenolone with a spoon full of white sugar or a piece of chocolate. I've heard from several men now that this is the way to go...."

 

[Kray]

I remembered reading on the forum that RP does not recommend antihistamines every day so although I was telling you what I do that may not be what he would recommend. I just wanted to mention that since technically if that post is correct then what I am doing may not be optimal. Some people sleep better with thyroid before bed but I have to take my last dose by mid afternoon. It seems to be a very individual situation. I have also read where some people sleep under the lights but I don't and mainly have not tried out of courtesy to my husband. The bag breathing is about all he can take! One day I needed to jot something down and I grabbed my brown paper bag and he asked me jokingly if I had written instructions to remove if unconsciousness occurs! It seems from what I've read on the forum and what Ray himself has suggested that thyroid should be taken in smaller more physiological doses. I've had 2 consultations with the lady on RP's link page and she said the light is especially important to use before bed due to the stress of darkness which makes sense. When I started this and things were improving I wanted to have an appointment with Ray himself but he had already stopped doing those so I contacted the biochemnordic which he obviously highly recommends or he wouldn't have it on his site. For me it felt very critical to get some input besides what I was reading on line. I wouldn't have gotten this far without Ray Peat sharing his work so generously with so many people. There is a lot of great information out there and the forum to me is one of the best resources to know what other people are doing and how they have been helped. I can tell that I am still changing but now it is for the better instead of a rapid decline. I truly lost what are often thought of as the best years of our lives ( mid 20's to just 6 month ago) and never thought I would have my health back. Now I can say that I never felt this well even as a small child.
We should all approach this in a way that works for our own unique situation and then readjust accordingly as we heal (imo).

Thanks Blossom, I know what you mean. Not many people around these days who would invest themselves as Dr Peat has done, myself included on many occasions. A real person and not about ego. His knowledge combined with genuine interest makes us want to learn all the more.

 

[mayart]

 

[lexis]

Vitamin b6 can reduce estrogen.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17478435

 

[Kray]

"The excess cortisol of depression, old age, and hyperestrogenism often comes down with use of a thyroid supplement, but pregnenolone has a very direct action (in opposition to serotonin) that can quiet the pituitary, reducing ACTH and cortisol. Progesterone has some similar effects, and is protective against excess cortisol, and is a major factor in nerve and brain restoration. Thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone are all involved in the formation of new myelin, and in the prevention of the edema that damages it."

Since thyroid and progesterone decrease the formation of estrogen in inflamed tissue, while cortisol stimulates its formation, it would seem wise to use thyroid and progesterone for their immediate antiinflammatory effects, which include the inhibition of NO formation (Drew and Chavez, 2000), and their lack of the excitotoxic, estrogen-stimulating effects of the glucocorticoids. While the glucocorticoids are catabolic and liberate cysteine and tryptophan from muscles, thyroid and progesterone are not catabolic, and protect against the toxic consequences of those amino acids.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml

H-D Diane: Thanks for the helpful info. Unless I'm confusing it with another nutrient, doesn't niacinamide also help against NO formation and estrogenic effects? (correct me if I'm wrong) So, for menopause women like myself, sounds like pregneno, progest-e and thyroid are all helpful? = :)

 

[Rich RPh]

Concerning Levothyroxine, it is the worst choice. Dessicated thyroid gives better results for most people since it is natural and has T4,T3,T2, T1 and calcitonin. The most economical product is purchasing Thyoid S or Thiroid from Thailand. Forget about lab tests. They miss thyroid resistance which affects up to 90% of thyroid problems. instead dose according to basal temperature and pulse rate for optimal metabolic rate. This will resolve most symptoms where Levothyroxine fails to. I highly recommend the Exergen Temporal thermometer available at Wal-Mart. It is the most accurate way of taking temperatures and only takes 3 seconds! if temp below 98 and pulse below 80 you probably need more thyroid. Hope this helps.

 

[visionofstrength]

The difficulty with pregnenolone is knowing how much of what you take is actually absorbed into the body. This may be why RP himself initially used pregnenolone in dosages of 1-3 grams of pregnenolone powder per day (up to a tablespoon), until his own hormonal imbalances were corrected.

Takeaway: You really can't over-dose pregnenolone, but you are likely under-dosing, if you have symptoms of hormonal imbalance.

Suggestion: Have you tried StressNon from Idealabs? It's a formulation of pregnenolone in solution with vitamin E, which as far as I know is unique in the marketplace. If StressNon can be more readily absorbed, dissolved as it is in Vitamin E, then it may be more economical and more convenient, compared to taking far larger dosages of pregenolone powder.

 

[aquaman]

I'm currently taking the recommended high doses of Progest-E for 10 day, and will taper off some later, as explained in RP's Progest-E instructions.

What are his instructions for taking it?

A friend of mine just got some and she doesn't know the protocol.

Thanks!

**EDIT** --> who would have thought? The search function worked

https://www.longnaturalhealth.com/sites ... ctions.pdf

 

[sumitahuja78]

Take both.
When you have estrogen dominance you really badly need progesterone so I would just take both.

yes you can go with that....

 

[Peata]

I'm currently taking the recommended high doses of Progest-E for 10 day, and will taper off some later, as explained in RP's Progest-E instructions.

What are his instructions for taking it?

A friend of mine just got some and she doesn't know the protocol.

Thanks!

**EDIT** --> who would have thought? The search function worked

https://www.longnaturalhealth.com/sites ... ctions.pdf

Sorry I missed this before. Glad you found the instructions.

 

[Strongbad]

Over the last few days I have come to the realization that I am becoming more and more estrogen dominant. I started taking pregnenolone a month or so ago. So maybe it seems that pregnenolone did in fact make me more estrogen dominant. I still have a decent amount of fat on me, and I also have a very low metabolism although improving.

How does a person know if he/she is estrogen dominant? I'm curious about this because i MAY be estrogen-dominant without even knowing it. I don't even know the symptoms or signals to look for.

It's like going for a regular checkup then the doctor says oh you have x, y, z diseases for years now. And I never even knew it.

 

[inurendotoxin]

I get this dermatitis. I also have signs of estrogen dominance that seemed to get worse after starting Peat. So, for some reason for some of us estrogen shoots up, along with cortisol causing us to have that flabby fat around the belly(hello narouz), and man boobs for the guys. So I think some of us will need to crush the estrogen rise that happens for whatever reason it decided to happen, when we start Peating/taking thyroid supplements..

@charlie Forgive me for bumping an old thread. I'm ploughing the depths to find a fix for estro-dominance symptoms such as you describe (in my case manboobs and early signs of a beer gut).

I'm interested to know if Progest-E fixed this for you (and if so, things like dosage and application method etc)?

My first attempt was to attack my problem sites with topical Pregnenolone which definitely made things worse. I've not touched Pregnenolone since, but I'm cautious of Progesterone having the same effect. I'm sure I heard Ray mention (maybe a KMUD interview?) that Preg may be safer for men as Progesterone can suppress testosterone in men.