My Mom Is Choosing To Get Off Her Anti-Depressants After 20 Years

[Velve921]

My mom is 68.

She just became a widow 7 months ago.

She had a hysterectomy 15 years ago.

She’s been on trazodone, Paxil, and Wellbutrin for 20 years.

She’s been a mess for a long time.

After my father passed 7 months ago, all of her fears came to life. However, she’s been finding ways to face them and is somehow seeing progress. Tonight, she said she is ready to get off her anti-depressants.

Her mentality is kind of, “Well, I’m already suicidal, I have meltdowns constantly, I have insomnia... can it get much worse?”

I have no idea what is to become of this experiment... but, I can’t say it’s not intriguing as it’s her choice. She conjured this idea after going through her ups and downs.

With all that said, does anyone have thoughts to share on this matter and her transition into healthier, metabolic support?

Thanks in advance!

 

[charlie]

Low dose lithium looks promising. Basically it energizes the mind and can even replace damaged mitochondria. @haidut has shared some great info on it.

If they are taking lithium then there is no need for the SSRI. Lithium is a potent antidepressant by itself and to this day is the gold standard for treating both depression and mania (and bipolar by extension). The scare tactics about its kidney toxicity are overblown and nowhere near as serious as the suicide risk and increased all-cause mortality from SSRI. The only reason SSRI started getting co-prescribed with lithium was a massive lobbying/funding/ghostwriting campaign by the pharma industry so that SSRI can piggy back on lithium's success and acquire critical mass to be marketed on their own. So now, after a few decades of co-administration the waters are muddied enough to now claim that SSRI are beneficial on their own, but there is no evidence for that. It is much easier to make a study that shows a combination of two drugs is better than one of the drugs alone (especially when one of them is known to work) compared to showing benefit of each drug on their own against placebo. And since lithium was known to be effective, it was easy to fudge a few stats in studies to show SSRI are synergistic with lithium. This is a common and very pernicious tactic employed by Big Pharma as @aguilaroja mentioned several times.

Nothing is irreversible. Google for "LSD crime reduction" or "lithium prisoners". The studies go back to the 1950s. Whoever says a psychiatric disorder cannot be cured/reversed should not be allowed to practice medicine.

You want another realization? Approach any psychiatrist and say that lithium can treat ALL psychiatric disorders and its only accepted mechanism of action is metabolic (restores brain mitochondrial function). So, are all mood disorders metabolic disorders? I had one doctor acquaintance reach for his Prozac while choking on his salad and another one who said I should not be volunteering this information publicly is I want to ever be employable by any company. Two others had not even heard of lithium used for anything beyond bipolar disorder and the fifth one said "what is lithium?".

He has many more quotes on it....

 

[Velve921]

Low dose lithium looks promising. Basically it energizes the mind and can even replace damaged mitochondria. @haidut has shared some great info on it.

Thanks for sharing this information!

I’ll pass that to her.






He has many more quotes on it....

 

[Beastmode]

I have a mother who's 61 and is slowly coming around to getting off hers as well.

Peat:
"Withdrawal is usually hard; helpful things are progesterone, vitamin D, generous calcium intake (milk), thyroid, and cyproheptadine for sleeping."

I got my mom to use cypro for a while at night and she slept like a rock. In fact she didn't like how groggy she was the next day and quit. I believe it was anywhere between 4-8 drops from ideal labs (@haidut.) She took progest-e (20 mg) per night before bed for a while, but stopped for some reason. She takes vitamin D (her levels are in the 40's so it's not that far off,) and drinks 2 cups of milk in the morning. I think the hardest part of all this, even if they're willing to stop the medications, is the consistent fueling that's required to really get healthy.

Cheers to your mom! Hope it works out well for her. Maybe I can use that as a success story for my mom to hear about and be encouraged to "take the leap!"

 

[Constatine]

Low dose aspirin is pretty useful for depressive/anxiety based symptoms. Mostly if the cause is neuroinflammation/5-ht based. Aspirin + caffeine is a combination that helps me incredibly mood wise but it might make her anxiety based symptoms worse. Meadowsweet is a good alternative to aspirin (basically contains aspirin) with much of the same effects without many of the potential side effects.
Phenibut is useful if things get desperate. Its certainly not a long term solution but if she ever becomes very suicidal it might help. Again this might be more effective than her antidepressants but its just that, an antidepressant/anxiolytic. Not at all a solution.
Reasonably increasing her dietary salt intake can help with her insomnia and mental stability to a degree. Salt might also be stress buffering: Salt intake and mental distress among rural community-dwelling Japanese men.
I personally love matcha green tea for stress reduction/mood improvement. There are hundreds of studies regarding green tea and reductions in anxiety/antidepressant effects. White tea seems to be especially effective for reducing anxiety. Teas must be high quality as standard store bought teas are very high in fluoride and very low in polyphenols and what not.
Increasing dopamine helps tremendously in cases such as this, perhaps even more so than regulating gaba function. Mucuna pruriens is useful for increasing dopamine as well as improving stress tolerance. Though its quite difficult to find good quality mucuna pruriens that aren't basically just extracted l-dopa (which is not what you want).
Increasing her zinc intake can help her mental health and stability tremendously. Anxiety and depression is associated with low zinc levels and zinc supplementation improves these conditions. Anxiety specifically is heavily associated with excess copper and low zinc.

 

[Whichway?]

I was on Paxil for two years and when I decided to come off it I went off it pretty much cold turkey. It was a complete nightmare. My nervous system was a mess, I was crying constantly, I would get electric shocks that went from my toes up to my head (similar to the sensation you get when you hit your funny bone on your elbow) sometimes when I walked. It was random. My appetite was really poor. I couldn’t go to work or function normally. I went back on it and things smoothed out.

After that I tried again 6 months later and after having read a book by Anne Blake Tracy which recommended you only drop your dose by 1/10 every week or second week or month if required. It takes a long time, but this worked for me, even though I still got the electric shocks for 6 months after stopping completely.

 

[Blossom]

I found the gradual weaning very helpful too @Wichway?.

 

[S-VV]

NEVER go off any CNS modifying drug cold turkey. You will inavriably have to go back, and every time you yo-yo, the risk of kindling increases. This is how many people on Clonazepam end up with seizures.

Wellbutrin is a NDRI, which increases Norepinephrine and Dopamine in the synaptic cleft. Sudden withdrawal will lead to fatigue and anhedonia.

Praxil (paroxetine) is a SSRI. They increase BDNF and allopregnenalone (a GABA-A positive allosteric modulator). Withdrawal will lead to anxiety.

Trazadone is a 5-HT2A antagonist, one of the more "evil" serotonin receptor. Suicidal people have significantly more 5HT2A receptor density.

Unless you have a contingency plan for these side effects, withdrawal will probably make things worse.

 

[Velve921]

I was on Paxil for two years and when I decided to come off it I went off it pretty much cold turkey. It was a complete nightmare. My nervous system was a mess, I was crying constantly, I would get electric shocks that went from my toes up to my head (similar to the sensation you get when you hit your funny bone on your elbow) sometimes when I walked. It was random. My appetite was really poor. I couldn’t go to work or function normally. I went back on it and things smoothed out.

After that I tried again 6 months later and after having read a book by Anne Blake Tracy which recommended you only drop your dose by 1/10 every week or second week or month if required. It takes a long time, but this worked for me, even though I still got the electric shocks for 6 months after stopping completely.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts my friend! That’s really helpful to hear your story.

It will be interesting to see how my mom responds because she’s already at the lowest point she’s ever been. Spends most of the day in bed or cleaning the house. Having breakdowns about the past.

 

[Velve921]

NEVER go off any CNS modifying drug cold turkey. You will inavriably have to go back, and every time you yo-yo, the risk of kindling increases. This is how many people on Clonazepam end up with seizures.

Wellbutrin is a NDRI, which increases Norepinephrine and Dopamine in the synaptic cleft. Sudden withdrawal will lead to fatigue and anhedonia.

Praxil (paroxetine) is a SSRI. They increase BDNF and allopregnenalone (a GABA-A positive allosteric modulator). Withdrawal will lead to anxiety.

Trazadone is a 5-HT2A antagonist, one of the more "evil" serotonin receptor. Suicidal people have significantly more 5HT2A receptor density.

Unless you have a contingency plan for these side effects, withdrawal will probably make things worse.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Yes, she’s not planning on going cold turkey.

She’s tapering down a little bit at a time.

As she tapers down, do you have any thoughts on what would be good for her to start adding in it’s place?

Cyproheptadine? Benedryl?

Thyroid? Progesterone? Aspirin?

 

[Beastmode]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Yes, she’s not planning on going cold turkey.

She’s tapering down a little bit at a time.

As she tapers down, do you have any thoughts on what would be good for her to start adding in it’s place?

Cyproheptadine? Benedryl?

Thyroid? Progesterone? Aspirin?

Peat:
"Withdrawal is usually hard; helpful things are progesterone, vitamin D, generous calcium intake (milk), thyroid, and cyproheptadine for sleeping."

 

[Velve921]

Peat:
"Withdrawal is usually hard; helpful things are progesterone, vitamin D, generous calcium intake (milk), thyroid, and cyproheptadine for sleeping."

Thanks for posting!

 

[Tarmander]

will she take charcoal?

Not many people have mentioned gut stuff, but quickening that along will help her feel lighter and less bogged down

 

[Kingpinguin]

Take it slow. The last miligrams is usually the worst. Its important to let the nervous system adjust slowly and not go cold turkey. The side effects are very bad. Extreme anxiety, sleep issues, brain zaps like you getting electricuted. I had sleep paralysis aswell often with very unnerving feelings of being watched when paralyzed in bed. The longer shes been on the drugs the more intense and harder it will be to get off. Every few miligrams is a step and should be seen as success. There are some good protocols online regarding dosing how fast you can go.

 

[aguineapig]

Just an idea--perhaps titrate off them one at a time. Trazadone is probably the least evil of them so save I would probably save it for last.

Having a beta blocker on hand could help with withdrawals. Atenolol is probably the safest. Cypro could also be very very helpful.

 

[Velve921]

Take it slow. The last miligrams is usually the worst. Its important to let the nervous system adjust slowly and not go cold turkey. The side effects are very bad. Extreme anxiety, sleep issues, brain zaps like you getting electricuted. I had sleep paralysis aswell often with very unnerving feelings of being watched when paralyzed in bed. The longer shes been on the drugs the more intense and harder it will be to get off. Every few miligrams is a step and should be seen as success. There are some good protocols online regarding dosing how fast you can go.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Velve921]

Just an idea--perhaps titrate off them one at a time. Trazadone is probably the least evil of them so save I would probably save it for last.

Having a beta blocker on hand could help with withdrawals. Atenolol is probably the safest. Cypro could also be very very helpful.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Uselis]

Much love and respect to your mom, quite a decision at such age she made!

As people said number one priority is slow tapper. You can't go too slow. Make one hotheaded cut and it can take months to stabilize. Actually you can show her survivingantidepressants.com webpage where lots of people crossed same waters as she's in now.

Be careful with supplements regardless of how they are viewed here. Oversensitive nervous system is really tricky to deal with, stuff that suppose to calm you might induce restlesness for example.

Don't let her make decisions based on thinking such "I am already suicidal, insomniac, it can't be that much worse". Trust me it can. There are levels of hell in this and she definitely want to skip akathisia. Gosh I hope I did not sound as some overzealous preacher but I've been through almost all withdrawal symptom and genuinely want nobody to experience that.

If she's able physically advice her to walk outside as much as possible. If you live in warm climate then walking isn't that important just spend good amount of time outdoors. It is extremely helpful for stabilizing nervous system. My severe insomnia ended once I started to stay outside 4h+.

I wish you all strength, success and most importantly patience. Slow and steady wins the race in this one. She'll make it!

 

[Velve921]

Much love and respect to your mom, quite a decision at such age she made!

As people said number one priority is slow tapper. You can't go too slow. Make one hotheaded cut and it can take months to stabilize. Actually you can show her survivingantidepressants.com webpage where lots of people crossed same waters as she's in now.

Be careful with supplements regardless of how they are viewed here. Oversensitive nervous system is really tricky to deal with, stuff that suppose to calm you might induce restlesness for example.

Don't let her make decisions based on thinking such "I am already suicidal, insomniac, it can't be that much worse". Trust me it can. There are levels of hell in this and she definitely want to skip akathisia. Gosh I hope I did not sound as some overzealous preacher but I've been through almost all withdrawal symptom and genuinely want nobody to experience that.

If she's able physically advice her to walk outside as much as possible. If you live in warm climate then walking isn't that important just spend good amount of time outdoors. It is extremely helpful for stabilizing nervous system. My severe insomnia ended once I started to stay outside 4h+.

I wish you all strength, success and most importantly patience. Slow and steady wins the race in this one. She'll make it!

wow! Thank you for such a thoughtful answer.

That means a lot from everyone to be so supportive! Forever grateful.

 

[burtlancast]

You absolutely need to give iodine and magnesium (chloride) a try.

It will detox fluoride and other heavy metals slowly and that can do wonders for the body, and especially the sleep/mind.

And as others said, Vit D (she obviously needs it since she wakes up late) and lithium. Maybe 10.000 -20.00 IU /day for a few months.

The effects are guaranteed.

Give as well a look to L-Methylfolate: it's extremely effective for refractory major depression in 70% of the cases. L-Methylfolate: A Promising Therapy for Treatment-Resistant Depression?