Anxiety and Depression are out of control. What anti-depressant Pharma drug would be safest?

helpmyhair

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After a breakup with the love of my life (she left me several months ago), I have no been able to cope at all. It has destroyed my life. Have trouble getting out of bed, am ridden with anxiety and panic (mornings are the worst), and so deeply depressed because I can't handle that she's gone, and even running errands in life like going grocery shopping or to the pharmacy has become overwhelming experiences where I feel too down/anxious and panicked.

I have tried all the natural stuff but without much improvement. I have already been on low dose trazodone which helps with sleep but is also an anti-depressant. I only take a half pill at present. It didnt do much for the anxiety/depression/panic but it does help me get some sleep. Prior to that I would get 1 or 2 hours a night tops. Now I get more but still wake up a couple times in the night. Also I've been doing therapy.

At this point I have no where else to turn but try pharm antidepressants and anti anxiety pills. But I am worried about side effects.. especially fibrosis which I hear SSRI's can cause. My hairloss is another significant player in my mental health and currently, I have decent hair, so I don't wanna risk making that worse with anti-depressants if it can cause fibrosis. So what can I try that won't raise serotonin or cause fibrosis and would be the safest? This I all assuming my GP is willing to prescribe it.
 

Brundle

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Anything that raises GABA. Maybe good quality L-theanine would be safest, since it lowers serotonin. Tianeptine is a stronger version. Phenibut can have instant results, but might lead to withdrawal symptoms if overused. But it can have a night and day difference in how you perceive the world.
 

Normal Human

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After a breakup with the love of my life (she left me several months ago), I have no been able to cope at all. It has destroyed my life. Have trouble getting out of bed, am ridden with anxiety and panic (mornings are the worst), and so deeply depressed because I can't handle that she's gone, and even running errands in life like going grocery shopping or to the pharmacy has become overwhelming experiences where I feel too down/anxious and panicked.

I have tried all the natural stuff but without much improvement. I have already been on low dose trazodone which helps with sleep but is also an anti-depressant. I only take a half pill at present. It didnt do much for the anxiety/depression/panic but it does help me get some sleep. Prior to that I would get 1 or 2 hours a night tops. Now I get more but still wake up a couple times in the night. Also I've been doing therapy.

At this point I have no where else to turn but try pharm antidepressants and anti anxiety pills. But I am worried about side effects.. especially fibrosis which I hear SSRI's can cause. My hairloss is another significant player in my mental health and currently, I have decent hair, so I don't wanna risk making that worse with anti-depressants if it can cause fibrosis. So what can I try that won't raise serotonin or cause fibrosis and would be the safest? This I all assuming my GP is willing to prescribe it.
Quick question, and the reason I'm asking is because I would find it relevant, you mentioned being "ridden with anxiety and panic", and "depressed" after the breakup, are you feeling sad/grief/crying as well? Or more just the anxiety/panic stuff?
 
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helpmyhair

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Quick question, and the reason I'm asking is because I would find it relevant, you mentioned being "ridden with anxiety and panic", and "depressed" after the breakup, are you feeling sad/grief/crying as well? Or more just the anxiety/panic stuff?
Also feeling sad/grief as well. I try to cry but tears don't come out, sometimes one. So I have alot of pent up emotion. The anxiety was present before the breakup as well as light depression. But post-breakup, both are out of control.
 

Normal Human

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Also feeling sad/grief as well. I try to cry but tears don't come out, sometimes one. So I have alot of pent up emotion. The anxiety was present before the breakup as well as light depression. But post-breakup, both are out of control.
Homeopathic Ignatia amara has been used for over 2 centuries to help people who are experiencing extreme grief/anxiety/depression especially after some inciting incident such as death of a loved one, losing a friend, relationship breakup, etc.
 

Korven

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After a breakup with the love of my life (she left me several months ago), I have no been able to cope at all. It has destroyed my life. Have trouble getting out of bed, am ridden with anxiety and panic (mornings are the worst), and so deeply depressed because I can't handle that she's gone, and even running errands in life like going grocery shopping or to the pharmacy has become overwhelming experiences where I feel too down/anxious and panicked.

I have tried all the natural stuff but without much improvement. I have already been on low dose trazodone which helps with sleep but is also an anti-depressant. I only take a half pill at present. It didnt do much for the anxiety/depression/panic but it does help me get some sleep. Prior to that I would get 1 or 2 hours a night tops. Now I get more but still wake up a couple times in the night. Also I've been doing therapy.

At this point I have no where else to turn but try pharm antidepressants and anti anxiety pills. But I am worried about side effects.. especially fibrosis which I hear SSRI's can cause. My hairloss is another significant player in my mental health and currently, I have decent hair, so I don't wanna risk making that worse with anti-depressants if it can cause fibrosis. So what can I try that won't raise serotonin or cause fibrosis and would be the safest? This I all assuming my GP is willing to prescribe it.

Hi have you tried going for daily walks in nature? It's been shown to reduce rumination and anxiety.

As far as pharmacological interventions go, I think Ray has spoken favourably (?) about using tricyclic antidepressants like amitriptyline. It is structurally similar to cyproheptadine.

Hang in there man, you'll get through this!
 

DBCoast

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I would warn against benzodiazepines. I’ve seen too many horror stories and have been through debilitating withdrawal myself. The benzobuddies forum has a lot of info on this.

I hope you find some relief.

Benzo Information Coalition has good info also.

 
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Nokoni

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Topical Defibron from idealabsdc has notably positive mood effects. Not a pharma drug but you can't have everything.
 

strongvirtue

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Firstly: Lower the physical stress as much as possible. Take care of yourself, be disciplined in your daily routine. Juice, Sugar, Beef, Milk ,Rice if you tolerate it, nourish your body! Take a walk. Listen to an interesting podcast.
Read book.
Secondly: Surround yourself with high quality people, avoid drinking alcohol.
Thirdly: Do not take any psychoactive substance as a crutch without putting your eceryday life together. After you have made those important changes in your lifestyle/diet, I would suggest those: small dose Androsterone + Pansterone (+ weight lifting) Or: T3/T4 to increase your mental energy to help you make those changes in your life. Or: You can try a Tianeptine, this will not blunt you like other antisepressants, it will make you feel deeply everything, as suppressing emotions is a bad idea in the lomg term, it will also make you motivated to work, train, get up in the morning.

Good luck my friend!
 

Cynthia386

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Anti-depressants aren't the solution to real grief. I am a big believer in testosterone. Testosterone can help you handle difficult situations.
 

CSH

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mostlylurking

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I have tried all the natural stuff but without much improvement.
All? Maybe not....
I feel too down/anxious and panicked
So sorry for your trouble. I've been there (down/anxious and panicked).
I have already been on low dose trazodone which helps with sleep but is also an anti-depressant. I only take a half pill at present. It didnt do much for the anxiety/depression/panic but it does help me get some sleep. Prior to that I would get 1 or 2 hours a night tops. Now I get more but still wake up a couple times in the night. Also I've been doing therapy.
Trazodone: "Trazodone is a medication used in the management and treatment of major depressive disorder. It is in the serotonin-antagonist-and-reuptake-inhibitor class of medications." from here: Trazodone - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

please consider this article: How Do Serotonin Antagonist and Reuptake Inhibitors Work?

"How Do Serotonin Antagonist and Reuptake Inhibitors Work?

Neurotransmitters are chemicals that pass messages in your brain, telling you to feel certain ways. A specific neurotransmitter, serotonin, is thought to be responsible for feelings of well-being and happiness. When an individual suffers from major depressive disorder, their brain experiences decreased serotonin activity, resulting in low self-esteem, low energy and loss of interest in daily activities. Neurotransmitter receptors receive the messages from the neurotransmitters resulting in your brain processing these signals. Serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitors work by antagonizing, or blocking, the serotonin receptors from their usual reuptake process, where the neurotransmitters would generally process and then be removed. Instead, the SARIs allow serotonin to remain in the neurotransmitter system for longer periods of time, thus resulting in an elevated mood and an increased pleasure in activities. Used in combination with therapy, SARIs allow individuals struggling with major depressive disorder to develop the coping skills necessary to manage their depression. Therapy provides a safe place for people to process their feelings and learn how to handle them in the future. Aided by the increased sense of well-being provided by the serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitors, individuals with major depressive disorder are better able to combat their depression and live a happy, healthy life. Resources “Rediscovering trazodone for the treatment of major depressive disorder” – Fagiolini A, Comandini A, Catena Dell’Osso M, Kasper S Rediscovering trazodone for the treatment of major depressive disorder - PubMed"

-end-

I think the above is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo based on the erroneous assumption that serotonin is the "happy hormone". It's not.

Please consider the Ray Peat information on serotonin:
At this point I have no where else to turn but try pharm antidepressants and anti anxiety pills.
Actually I think there's a solution that does not include pharmaceuticals.
My hairloss is another significant player in my mental health and currently, I have decent hair, so I don't wanna risk making that worse with anti-depressants if it can cause fibrosis.
Pharmaceutical antidepressants cause lots more than that. The brain is very complicated. It is also very sensitive to poisons. By definition, patented pharmaceutical drugs are not naturally occurring substances as these cannot be patented. Therefore, they are foreign to the body and are toxic. The people who design these pharmacological wonders think serotonin is the "happy hormone" so I don't trust their opinions and their concoctions.
I have decent hair, so I don't wanna risk making that worse with anti-depressants if it can cause fibrosis. So what can I try that won't raise serotonin or cause fibrosis and would be the safest?
Thiamine. It works. It normalizes brain energy. It normalizes the oxygen in the brain.
Please read:

Thiamine also reduces brain serotonin:

and maybe it'll help with your hair loss too:
 

Phaedrus

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You may want to consider microdosing psilocybin or LSD.



Second that. MDMA also has shown a lot of potential around relieving anxiety, even PTSD. Ketamine therapy is another option that is gaining steam as a treatment for severe depression. Many US cities now have medical practices offering ketamine therapy.

For me, cyproheptadine can also help a lot in stressful situations. It has sedating effects for sure (although that apparently subsides after 1-2 weeks of regular use), but it puts me in a calm zen state in which I do less rumination.
 

CSH

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Second that. MDMA also has shown a lot of potential around relieving anxiety, even PTSD. Ketamine therapy is another option that is gaining steam as a treatment for severe depression. Many US cities now have medical practices offering ketamine therapy.

For me, cyproheptadine can also help a lot in stressful situations. It has sedating effects for sure (although that apparently subsides after 1-2 weeks of regular use), but it puts me in a calm zen state in which I do less rumination.
I too second MDMA and Ketamine therapy!
I don’t know of that last one you mentioned…I’ll have to go look that up 👍🏽
 
OP
H

helpmyhair

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All? Maybe not....

So sorry for your trouble. I've been there (down/anxious and panicked).

Trazodone: "Trazodone is a medication used in the management and treatment of major depressive disorder. It is in the serotonin-antagonist-and-reuptake-inhibitor class of medications." from here: Trazodone - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

please consider this article: How Do Serotonin Antagonist and Reuptake Inhibitors Work?

"How Do Serotonin Antagonist and Reuptake Inhibitors Work?

Neurotransmitters are chemicals that pass messages in your brain, telling you to feel certain ways. A specific neurotransmitter, serotonin, is thought to be responsible for feelings of well-being and happiness. When an individual suffers from major depressive disorder, their brain experiences decreased serotonin activity, resulting in low self-esteem, low energy and loss of interest in daily activities. Neurotransmitter receptors receive the messages from the neurotransmitters resulting in your brain processing these signals. Serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitors work by antagonizing, or blocking, the serotonin receptors from their usual reuptake process, where the neurotransmitters would generally process and then be removed. Instead, the SARIs allow serotonin to remain in the neurotransmitter system for longer periods of time, thus resulting in an elevated mood and an increased pleasure in activities. Used in combination with therapy, SARIs allow individuals struggling with major depressive disorder to develop the coping skills necessary to manage their depression. Therapy provides a safe place for people to process their feelings and learn how to handle them in the future. Aided by the increased sense of well-being provided by the serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitors, individuals with major depressive disorder are better able to combat their depression and live a happy, healthy life. Resources “Rediscovering trazodone for the treatment of major depressive disorder” – Fagiolini A, Comandini A, Catena Dell’Osso M, Kasper S Rediscovering trazodone for the treatment of major depressive disorder - PubMed"

-end-

I think the above is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo based on the erroneous assumption that serotonin is the "happy hormone". It's not.

Please consider the Ray Peat information on serotonin:

Actually I think there's a solution that does not include pharmaceuticals.

Pharmaceutical antidepressants cause lots more than that. The brain is very complicated. It is also very sensitive to poisons. By definition, patented pharmaceutical drugs are not naturally occurring substances as these cannot be patented. Therefore, they are foreign to the body and are toxic. The people who design these pharmacological wonders think serotonin is the "happy hormone" so I don't trust their opinions and their concoctions.

Thiamine. It works. It normalizes brain energy. It normalizes the oxygen in the brain.
Please read:

Thiamine also reduces brain serotonin:

and maybe it'll help with your hair loss too:

What worries me about Thiamine is that it gives energy and I already have trouble falling asleep, hence the trazodone. I had already tried taking a B complex for a while which was giving 100-200mg of Thiamine and it didn't help my mental state much. I am in a really extreme unstable state where I am very anxious, depressed, dread an panic from the moment I wake up. Its the worst at wake up, bad during the day. In the evening the anxiety is not as back but depression is still there. At night, I level out a bit. That's when I am feeling my best is after 10 or 11pm and can think a little more rational. But at all times I am incapable of taking care oof myself, from running errands, cooking, etc, Its all too overwhelming for my mental state.
 
OP
H

helpmyhair

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Hi have you tried going for daily walks in nature? It's been shown to reduce rumination and anxiety.

As far as pharmacological interventions go, I think Ray has spoken favourably (?) about using tricyclic antidepressants like amitriptyline. It is structurally similar to cyproheptadine.

Hang in there man, you'll get through this!

From what I'm reading online, amitriptyline seems to work by raising serotonin.. is this true? I also read that it can make people suicidal, though I think this is the case with most anti-depressants. This is what makes me scared to go on them.
 

mostlylurking

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What worries me about Thiamine is that it gives energy and I already have trouble falling asleep, hence the trazodone. I had already tried taking a B complex for a while which was giving 100-200mg of Thiamine and it didn't help my mental state much. I am in a really extreme unstable state where I am very anxious, depressed, dread an panic from the moment I wake up. Its the worst at wake up, bad during the day. In the evening the anxiety is not as back but depression is still there. At night, I level out a bit. That's when I am feeling my best is after 10 or 11pm and can think a little more rational. But at all times I am incapable of taking care oof myself, from running errands, cooking, etc, Its all too overwhelming for my mental state.
Dr. Costantini advised taking thiamine hcl twice a day, once in the morning (before lunch), then in the afternoon, by 3:00pm. because taking it later in the day can affect sleep. However, taking it as he recommended improves sleep. Taking it later in the day can cause your blood sugar to go down when you're asleep which would wake you up.

13. What happens if I take my thiamine later in the afternoon or at night?
(answer) If high oral doses of thiamine are taken later during the day (evening or night) there may be difficulties in falling asleep. Conversely, if taken in the morning and early afternoon, patients reported an improvement of their sleep.
-end-
Please note that the thiamine in the b-complex is most likely thiamine hcl (good stuff). However 100-200mg of thiamine hcl taken orally is an extremely low dose because it does not get through the intestinal wall very well.

I take a gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. I'm following Dr. Costantini's information here.

An alternative to the high dose thiamine hcl that you could try to see if thiamine could be helpful is the sublingual thiamine mononitrate. There's a link after the article to a source for purchasing it. You could break the tablet in half (or quarter it) to try it out. The bottle of 100 tabs is less than $5.00. Or, you could simply take maybe 300mg of thiamine hcl with a glass of water (nothing sweet). The response to it is pretty quick; less than an hour. I could tell the sublingual was affecting my brain within 5 minutes. That said, I did go back to the thiamine hcl after trying the sublingual. I just like it better and find it is easier for me to know how much and how often I need to take it.
 

Peatress

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What worries me about Thiamine is that it gives energy and I already have trouble falling asleep, hence the trazodone. I had already tried taking a B complex for a while which was giving 100-200mg of Thiamine and it didn't help my mental state much. I am in a really extreme unstable state where I am very anxious, depressed, dread an panic from the moment I wake up. Its the worst at wake up, bad during the day. In the evening the anxiety is not as back but depression is still there. At night, I level out a bit. That's when I am feeling my best is after 10 or 11pm and can think a little more rational. But at all times I am incapable of taking care oof myself, from running errands, cooking, etc, Its all too overwhelming for my mental state.
This sound terrible - lack of sleep is the worst. Been there.

Have you considered that the medications your GP is prescribing you is actually contributing to your anxiety and depression?



Amitriptyline is not as safe as it's made out to be

 

redsun

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From what I'm reading online, amitriptyline seems to work by raising serotonin.. is this true? I also read that it can make people suicidal, though I think this is the case with most anti-depressants. This is what makes me scared to go on them.
And yet some people's lives are completely changed and make a full 180 from these drugs. Amitryptyline also raises norepinephrine and dopamine to an extent.

Sertraline is also good and moderately enhances dopamine and NE. All your mental problems are psychosomatic and the increased mental and internal conflict is causing physical stress, aggravating and even being at the root of some of your physical ailments.

Because you refuse to voluntarily let go of what you need to let go of, you need some kind of hard drug to allow you to think clearly. Eating more calories or just trying to eat better and take some weak anxiolytic supplements does not work for you to put you in a more abundant, optimistic mindset. You are too mentally resistant to change and refuse to accept your reality and its killing you. This is the only way.

If you continue this path of internal stress and mental anguish, your brain will inevitably turn to jello. I am not exaggerating. You could develop degenerative brain diseases, give yourself a heart attack and/or stroke. Any drug is better than the state you are in.

I say go for sertraline, they are more likely to prescribe SSRI as that is the first line treatment anyways. But sertraline will also enhance DA and NE and will work well. Some people respond very well to these things despite the possible side effects. All medications and supplements have side effects. The benefits far outweigh the risks here. The benefit being you will be think clearly and calmly, and mentally feel okay which will help you sleep and help you analyze your situation more logically and get your life in order. Better than the inevitable heart attack or stroke from all this emotional stress and being stuck in this helpless state that you are currently in.
 

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