My Journey To Optimal Health

[Cirion]

I am starting to think maybe Kelj and the post she made about "starvation being the biggest stressor" we face being true. Maybe I'm going down the rabbit hole of Gwyneth Olywn now lol. The only difference is I still adamantly believe certain foods are terrible for us, just that maybe there's something to increasing calories until the stress response to hunger goes away? Clearly, that's what is happening at night, I'm running out of food, and then FFA's get released which completely demolish my metabolism. What other explanation is there considering my dinner was less calories than normal by a large factor (50%)? I also noted that I woke up WAY earlier than normal the first time at night than I normally do. All signs seem to be pointing to starvation / insufficient calories now that I've had my coffee and can mentally function this morning lol.

 

[redsun]

Seriously, how does one survive the nightly fast? It seems like an insurmountable task!

Increase glycogen storage.

 

[Cirion]

Increase glycogen storage.

Yes I know, but how?

-- I eat low PUFA
-- I eat low tryptophan
-- I eat protein, which supposedly helps (it doesn't, as my waking temperatures have been proof of)
-- I supplement B vitamins, choline (these aren't doing anything either)
-- I eat tons of carbs
-- I have at least some caffeine every day, which supposedly cleans the liver, been supplementing K2 also

None of it actually works. The theory is great, but how do you ACTUALLY do it?

I know all the theory at this point. The problem is it doesn't actually work.

 

[Vinny]

No dice. This morning was really bad. In fact the worst this entire year. Super hypothyroid 97.3F waking temp (it did go up a bit to 97.7 before I ate something but still). I was afraid this would happen by NOT saving my calories primarily until dinner =/

Dunno what to do guys... eating a lot of food at breakfast feels like the right move, but now I'm hosed at the nightly fast in terms of surviving it if I don't top it off with a lot of calories. And I simply can't lose weight. That's the other problem. This is so frustrating. The nightly fast is literally like trying to defeat Hitler's whole army with a single firearm. If it wasn't for the nightly fast I could actually start to increase my altitude, as it stands, I crash into the mountain every morning.

Maybe I just didn't eat enough still. I have noticed when I don't eat enough it makes me gain weight, counter-intuitively enough. I wonder if eating more calories at breakfast increases the overall metabolic rate and my glucose just crashed hard last night.

This might also be implicating animal products despite keeping a low tryptophan budget tho... I did have a pound of beef yesterday after all. Animal products do usually jack up my temps like this.

I think this time I will just fast after dinner and ignore hunger. I simply can't afford to blow my tryptophan budget. That's literally what killed me I think. If that doesn't work either, I may try to increase calories again, and if that doesn't work, then animal products are going to get the ax again.

I don`t know what to tell you, man. I feel for you. I find my issues very similar to yours, but I`m near to nowhere, so can`t add anything you haven`t already tried.
I have a growing feeling lately, that, whatever I do, won`t make it without T3. To try at least... in massive doses, if needed, and for a long period of time. Haven`t heard someone died from it, so if I can get it, I`ll go with the pill.

 

[Cirion]

I don`t know what to tell you, man. I feel for you. I find my issues very similar to yours, but I`m near to nowhere, so can`t add anything you haven`t already tried.
I have a growing feeling lately, that, whatever I do, won`t make it without T3. To try at least... in massive doses, if needed, and for a long period of time. Haven`t heard someone died from it, so if I can get it, I`ll go with the pill.

I think it's insufficient calories. I really do. Everything leads to that. It's why eating such a big breakfast helped me out so much yesterday. When you wake up in the morning is when you're in your lowest fed state. The moment you feed yourself a big amount of food, you put your body into a "local surplus". The sooner you can put your body into a surplus (breakfast) the sooner you can break out of the stress response. If you do what I did before and put off food until late afternoon or even evening, you don't break out of the stress response until dinner, only to fall into it again overnight and throughout the whole rest of the day until next dinner (aka, intermittent fasting).

If we expand this to the night, it just means I need a big breakfast AND a big dinner. Worrying about eating too much be damned. I don't even lose weight in calorie deficits anymore anyway. I think Kelj is right now. Starvation is *the* big stress. Because when you run out of food, adrenaline is secreted, FFA's increase, PUFA's start to flood the bloodstream along with all the toxins in your fats, and everything just is bad.

All of this is hitting me like its obvious now that I've pushed my body into a surplus with another big breakfast and my mind is actually able to have creative thought again. It is quite incredible how quickly my mental state shifts with food, so clearly, food is the answer.

 

[redsun]

Yes I know, but how?

-- I eat low PUFA
-- I eat low tryptophan
-- I eat protein, which supposedly helps (it doesn't, as my waking temperatures have been proof of)
-- I supplement B vitamins, choline (these aren't doing anything either)
-- I eat tons of carbs
-- I have at least some caffeine every day, which supposedly cleans the liver, been supplementing K2 also

None of it actually works. The theory is great, but how do you ACTUALLY do it?

Biotin Promotes Glycogen Synthesis

"The study is in Chinese so I can't get the full data but effective human equivalent doses were 0.08mg/kg, 0.42mg/kg, and 0.85mg/kg. "

"Biotin inhibits both gluconeogenesis and excessive glycolysis, as well lowering blood lipids like FFA and triglycerides."

"Biotin stimulates pyruvate carboxylase and as such promotes the oxidation of pyruvate produced during glycolysis and reduces lactate. So, in many cases, the elevated blood glucose levels are due to the cells being stuck in excessive glycolysis or are prevented from oxidizinig glucose due to high FFA. In glycolysis, the generated pyruvate is not being able to continue to the Krebs cycle. Biotin restarts the Krebs cycle and makes it use the pyruvate from glycolysis. So, the enhanced oxidation of glucose combined with the lowering of FFA is the main mechanism of biotin's glucose lowering effects."

" I guess it has insulin promoting effects as well, but the human studies I looked at showed that with chronic treatment it actually lowered hyperinsulinemia."

"Some of the studies with high doses of biotin (i.e. human equivalent of about 100mg) found exactly that - loss of body fat. If biotin lowers triglycerides, FFA and cholesterol then it is a sign of increased fat disposal. Those trigs, FFA and cholesterol were not shuttled back to the liver so they mush have been oxidized or glucuronidated and excreted. I think biotin can work even without niacinamide but combining them prevents the wasteful conversion of carbs into fat due to the effects of niacinamide."

"In cultured rat islet cells, biotin increased glucokinase activity by as much as 143%, whereas in biotin-deficient rats, glucokinase activity in the islets was reduced by 50%.Treatment with biotin for 24 hours increased insulin secretion in both normal and hyperglycemic animals. Human trials generated equally promising results. One group of Type I patients who received 16 mg/day of biotin for one week experienced reduced levels of blood sugar. In Type II subjects, elevated fasting blood glucose levels plummeted by approximately 45% after one month treatment with oral doses of 9 mg/day of biotin."

 

[Cirion]

Biotin Promotes Glycogen Synthesis

"The study is in Chinese so I can't get the full data but effective human equivalent doses were 0.08mg/kg, 0.42mg/kg, and 0.85mg/kg. "

"Biotin inhibits both gluconeogenesis and excessive glycolysis, as well lowering blood lipids like FFA and triglycerides."

"Biotin stimulates pyruvate carboxylase and as such promotes the oxidation of pyruvate produced during glycolysis and reduces lactate. So, in many cases, the elevated blood glucose levels are due to the cells being stuck in excessive glycolysis or are prevented from oxidizinig glucose due to high FFA. In glycolysis, the generated pyruvate is not being able to continue to the Krebs cycle. Biotin restarts the Krebs cycle and makes it use the pyruvate from glycolysis. So, the enhanced oxidation of glucose combined with the lowering of FFA is the main mechanism of biotin's glucose lowering effects."

" I guess it has insulin promoting effects as well, but the human studies I looked at showed that with chronic treatment it actually lowered hyperinsulinemia."

"Some of the studies with high doses of biotin (i.e. human equivalent of about 100mg) found exactly that - loss of body fat. If biotin lowers triglycerides, FFA and cholesterol then it is a sign of increased fat disposal. Those trigs, FFA and cholesterol were not shuttled back to the liver so they mush have been oxidized or glucuronidated and excreted. I think biotin can work even without niacinamide but combining them prevents the wasteful conversion of carbs into fat due to the effects of niacinamide."

"In cultured rat islet cells, biotin increased glucokinase activity by as much as 143%, whereas in biotin-deficient rats, glucokinase activity in the islets was reduced by 50%.Treatment with biotin for 24 hours increased insulin secretion in both normal and hyperglycemic animals. Human trials generated equally promising results. One group of Type I patients who received 16 mg/day of biotin for one week experienced reduced levels of blood sugar. In Type II subjects, elevated fasting blood glucose levels plummeted by approximately 45% after one month treatment with oral doses of 9 mg/day of biotin."

That's cool, but energin has lots of biotin and I have been taking it every day for over a week and nothing has noticeably changed...

 

[Cirion]

addendum to above post looks like energin only has 1mg of biotin and the study looked at way more than that. I actually think I have some plain biotin supplementation somewhere, I guess I can play with it since I already have some on hand.

 

[somuch4food]

I appreciate the words, but I'm not yet convinced. True days should fluctuate a lot, but when things are this bad, I clearly erred horrendously somehow. A "fluctuation" should be a 98.3F temp instead of 98.6F. not 97.3F. When I did my full week vegan experiment a couple of weeks back, I was consistently 98.6F each and every day and the one fluctuation I had was 98.4 or 98.5 instead of 98.6F. I actually wasn't getting body aches anymore on veganism once I got enough protein from enough potatoes. I can't afford to do this for weeks and months if it's making me retain body weight and also feel like a train wreck.

I'm just truthfully rather bitter and fed up of being bipolar. I feel good, great, even euphoric before bed and then like I want to slit my wrists in the morning. Seriously, how does one survive the nightly fast? It seems like an insurmountable task!

Those ups and downs are a sign that something is amiss. I had more drive when restricting calories, but my body was telling me it was suffering. I started having white hairs and dry hands and had the hardest time focusing on work and chores. So, maybe despite it all you are still bound to stress hormones.

I am starting to think maybe Kelj and the post she made about "starvation being the biggest stressor" we face being true. Maybe I'm going down the rabbit hole of Gwyneth Olywn now lol. The only difference is I still adamantly believe certain foods are terrible for us, just that maybe there's something to increasing calories until the stress response to hunger goes away? Clearly, that's what is happening at night, I'm running out of food, and then FFA's get released which completely demolish my metabolism. What other explanation is there considering my dinner was less calories than normal by a large factor (50%)? I also noted that I woke up WAY earlier than normal the first time at night than I normally do. All signs seem to be pointing to starvation / insufficient calories now that I've had my coffee and can mentally function this morning lol.

If we expand this to the night, it just means I need a big breakfast AND a big dinner. Worrying about calorie deficits be damned. I think Kelj is right now. Starvation is *the* big stress. Because when you run out of food, adrenaline is secreted, FFA's increase, PUFA's start to flood the bloodstream along with all the toxins in your fats, and everything just is bad.

I truly do think there's truth behind Kelj's starvation theory and I also agree that there are foods that can be terrible to an individual. All foods contain upsides and downsides. Figuring out what's a poison to your own body is important, I think, as is figuring out was your own body needs.

My toddler is a good example. Since he's young, the changes are amplified and more apparent than with adults. Sufficient calories help him with mood and sleep, but restricted lactose made a tremendous difference since it allowed him to get more nutrients out of what he eats. He eats more than my partner at breakfast!

I started off with feeding him lots of fruits and vegetables and restricting processed foods and now it's pretty much the other way around. His main diet is dairy and wheat with processed treats like granola bars and rice krispies to bump up calories. He's essentially on a no lactose, low fiber diet and seems to be getting healthier. It's been a weird journey for sure. He seems to benefit from extra meat and iron, so I'm thinking he's probably slightly anemic.

Anyway, just to say that I think that every journey to health is different and clearly depends on an individual's context.

 

[redsun]

He seems to benefit from extra meat and iron, so I'm thinking he's probably slightly anemic.

Well yeh... he's a toddler. He needs all the iron and meat he can get. Especially the heme kind which is easily absorbable for children. Its very easy for a young kid to get iron deficient.

 

[Vinny]

so clearly, food is the answer.

There is no way I disagree with that (not implying Kelj is 100% right tho). However, it looks to me that, to make it work without gaining weight, one should bring it to a level of an art (if it works at all... but T3 might not do the job as well, tbh....).
I`m scared to death (no kiddin`) of getting fatter beyond my current state. Being obese means more aromatisation (inevitable), more cortisol, more other ***t released, buying new clothes (not a secondary issue if one is on a budget, like me) and, which is the worst - more feeling that one is a big bag of lard.
I don`t think I`m mentally prepared to face and overcome those (very) possible negatives.

 

[Cirion]

There is no way I disagree with that (not implying Kelj is 100% right tho). However, it looks to me that, to make it work without gaining weight, one should bring it to a level of an art (if it works at all... but T3 might not do the job as well, tbh....).
I`m scared to death (no kiddin`) of getting fatter beyond my current state. Being obese means more aromatisation (inevitable), more cortisol, more other ***t released, buying new clothes (not a secondary issue if one is on a budget, like me) and, which is the worst - more feeling that one is a big bag of lard.
I don`t think I`m mentally prepared to face and overcome those (very) possible negatives.

Well I doubt you're fatter than me. I'm at the point where I'm so fat, that I won't even notice more fat gain, sadly enough LOL. Once you get to 100 lb overweight you realize what's 10 more lbs?? lol. So eventually you stop caring....


The fat gain should stop tho once you actually t urn off the stress and KEEP it off. Intermittent cortisol spiking (during the night) is in fact what CAUSES the weight gain creep. If I can just SHUT cortisol down 100%, 100% of the time, then I can finally start to tem the tide and beat Hitler with my single firearm like a freaking boss... I hate nazis.... LOL

 

[Vinny]

Well I doubt you're fatter than me.

The essence was not who`s fatter, Cirion. Yes, I`m leaner than you, but that doesn`t change the whole picture. I meant it`s very tricky to play with food, although I hope it works. I just don`t know how to do it, without reaching a point of no return.

 

[Cirion]

The essence was not who`s fatter, Cirion. Yes, I`m leaner than you, but that doesn`t change the whole picture. I meant it`s very tricky to play with food, although I hope it works. I just don`t know how to do it, without reaching a point of no return.

Sorry, not trying to be offensive. I was just saying that for me, I'm already past the point of no return, so I might as well experiment with ridiculous strategies =P

 

[Cirion]

I just think animal products and/or fat simply just does not work for me period. As I collect more and more data its becoming increasingly obvious. Even picking low tryptophan animal products is an epic fail, as yesterday proved.

I don't care what theory says. I don't care what other research says. Show me a million studies that claim veganism ruins health and animal products save me, I don't care. I only care what my own experiment says. And experiment says -- animal products don't work. Fats don't work. Only carbs work.

This one (well three) charts basically says it all. 7-day weekly averages of waking temp and body weight change. Its glaringly obvious that 90% calories from carbs is a winner both from body temp standpoint AND weight loss standpoint.

I'm not gonna push through eating animal products "because it should work". I'm pushing that results that well, WORK period.

If I combine what I learned with veganism with eating a huge breakfast, I think things will start to improve. The huge breakfast is a great thing that I think I plan to keep, but not the animal products.

 

[redsun]

I don't care what theory says. I don't care what other research says.

What about history? Its generally accepted that humans started eating meat about 2.6 million years ago, and cooking meat a couple hundred thousand years ago. Meat has been in the "human" diet long before homo sapiens sapiens came around. And they sure as hell weren't overweight. Humans could never survive unless they were light and fast enough to hunt and run when needed. I think it's misleading to say meat causes weight gain.

Let us know how the mega dose biotin goes.

 

[lampofred]

Coconut oil is supposed to increase glycogen storage and reduce symptoms of hypoglycemia if you go too long between meals. I've started using hydrogenated just yesterday, so can't give any personal results with it yet, but might be worth a try for you.

 

[Cirion]

What about history? Its generally accepted that humans started eating meat about 2.6 million years ago, and cooking meat a couple hundred thousand years ago. Meat has been in the "human" diet long before homo sapiens sapiens came around. And they sure as hell weren't overweight. Humans could never survive unless they were light and fast enough to hunt and run when needed. I think it's misleading to say meat causes weight gain.

Let us know how the mega dose biotin goes.

Appeal to history, theory any of that I no longer care. I just don't. Because my data proves otherwise. I'm tired of getting distracted by things that "Should" work but don't. But, to answer your question I did have one or two days where I lost weight on high protein, but protein reliably lowers my metabolism. Always. Without fail. In the long run I want weight loss AND high metabolism. Weight loss and low metabolism doesn't interest me.

Coconut oil is supposed to increase glycogen storage and reduce symptoms of hypoglycemia if you go too long between meals. I've started using hydrogenated just yesterday, so can't give any personal results with it yet, but might be worth a try for you.

Ya maybe, but even coconut oil will make it harder for me to get 90-95% calories from carbs.

 

[lampofred]

Appeal to history, theory any of that I no longer care. I just don't. Because my data proves otherwise. I'm tired of getting distracted by things that "Should" work but don't. But, to answer your question I did have one or two days where I lost weight on high protein, but protein reliably lowers my metabolism. Always. Without fail. In the long run I want weight loss AND high metabolism. Weight loss and low metabolism doesn't interest me.



Ya maybe, but even coconut oil will make it harder for me to get 90-95% calories from carbs.

Peat says coconut oil actually increases temps by itself. Unlike butter, ghee. So using it might allow you to go a bit lower on carbs.

Obviously up to you, not trying to persuade you that coconut oil is the cure or anything, just giving you all the info I know

 

[Cirion]

Peat says coconut oil actually increases temps by itself. Unlike butter, ghee. So using it might allow you to go a bit lower on carbs.

Obviously up to you, not trying to persuade you that coconut oil is the cure or anything, just giving you all the info I know

A tablespoon or two probably wouldn't be the worst thing I suppose. Ray said I believe that's about all it takes. The benefits for CO fall off quickly after a TBSP or two a day though. So maybe a tbsp. in your coffee or something.


RP:

I kept eating the same foods as before (including a quart of ice cream every day), except that I added about 200 or 250 calories per day as coconut oil[

So yeah, that'd be about 2 tbsp. of CO.