New to these parts

[littleg]

Hi everyone :) Since I've been spending the last few days attached at the hip to this forum I figured I'd start my own little log.

I've been paleo for ~4 years. I've got some issues with food. I'm 5lbs heavier than I'd like to be. Husband and I are TTC and getting nowhere. So that about sums things up - I'm reasonably healthy (I think?) but am not sure why it turns out apparently I'm not so good at growing a tiny human (hubs has passed his tests with flying colors). A few months ago I finally found an MD who would prescribe Nature-throid (after 4 years of paleo and crossfit and "not -responding" a different MD order a full thyroid panel and my FT3 was 1.8. My TSH was 1.8 or so so according to him I was "fine"). So I started on the Nature-throid and lost about 5 lbs over 3ish months. Getting down to 137 (I'm 5'2", 37 yo, F, pretty muscular). But the last month or so I've felt kinda "meh". I'm more tired than I'd like to be, my eyes are puffy in the morning, my weight is creeping back up. So I decided to try Peat because if you let me choose what to eat I'd eat cheese, fruit and meat. If you said you can be skinny and eat what you choose I'd add ice cream to the list :) So that rules out Whole30!

I'm going to keep a log of food on here just so I have something to reference for my n=1 if it turns out to be an epic failure or success.

I'll start with yesterday:

Sleep - pretty crappy according to my Misfit - 7hrs light sleep, 2 hrs good sleep (this has been happening more - lower sleep quality - I'm not sure the Misfit is the gold standard but it is a change in my Misfit sleep data - I used to get 4ish hrs of "good" and 4ish hrs of "light".

Weight - 137.
Woke up around 7.
2 small cups of coffee with 2/3c skim and 2 tsp molasses added.
9 AM - 2.5 mile walk with the doggies.
10 AM - 9 oz cherries, 1 oz fancy shmancy cheese from the farmers market that smells like feet!
11:30 - sample cup of coffee with ~1 tbsp half and half at TJs. And a square of some other delicious cheese from the sample station.
12 - crossfit, hard workout: 5 x (2 push press, 1 split jerk) @ 95lbs, 5RFT 14 wall-balls, 4 squat cleans, 8 lunges with barbell @75.
3ish - 16 oz 4% Friendship CC (no fillers), 1 med banana, homemade gelatin "gummies" (~7g of gelatin in there, 1/4 c juice), apple. Still hungry, ate ~3oz slow cooked stew beef
8ish - apple on the way home from TJ (yes, I went again...), 5 light string cheeses, 2 lbs clementines, 10 oz cherries

~2250 calories, 140g protein, 340g CHO, 47g fat
Short on Vit E (24%), K (29%), D, folate
I take methylated folate every day because I am homozygous for that MTHFR mutation and I try to take my vit D but always forget.

Overall I don't drink juice (no satiety for me) and am trying to avoid falling face first into "good" quality milk chocolate and ice cream since I'm trying to get body fat to go down not up.

So, Peatstars? Am I off to a good start? Any major changes I need to make because I'm totally missing the mark? I'd love any feedback :)

 

[littleg]

Day 2 - weight 137 (at 9 AM, 4 hrs later than normal and apparently this matters because in my 3 hr "nap" I produced 20 oz of urine... sorry, I'm a little to scale-centered... I know)

Sleep
Woke up at 5:30 with hubs with every intent to go to the 7 AM crossfit. Went back to bed instead and slept fitfully til 9.

9:30 - black coffee - no appetite.
10:30 - tin of smoked oysters, drained, 1 cup frozen mango, 2 eggs fried in 1 tsp coconut oil, gummies
3:00 - 2 apples (stuck in the Apple store for 4 hrs today, found these at the 1 "healthy" option in the food court)
5:00 - 1 apple on the way home from the store, 1 lb of grapes (*starving* at this point)
7:00 - 8oz baby carrots, ~2/3 of the following recipe: big can diced tomatoes, spices, 1 lb shrimp, 2 oz feta, 2 lbs strawberries

~1800 calories, 100g P, 300g CHO, 37g F

100%+ on everything on cronometer...

 

[tara]

littleg

I'm not an expert, but I have a couple of thoughts.

I guess you know the risks that trying to force off the last 5 pounds by undereating and/or extreme exercise can result in reduced metabolism, subsequent greater fat gain, and possibly reduced fertility (depending on the degree)?

Was you paleo approach a low carb one, or were you eating lots of fruit and carby veges all through that? If you've been eating low cab for a long time, you might be lucky and find that eating more fruit and veges makes a difference to fertility.

I'd also suggest reading Peat's articles about estrogen and progesterone.
I think high estrogen:progesterone ration is one thing that can mess with fertility. Adequate progesterone is required to maintain pregnancy. Some women use progest-e from after ovulation till before menstruation to help get this in better balance. (I and some others use it continuously, but not recommending that if you are wating to conceive. Some use it with different timing for contraception.)

Some of us find we have more energy if we make sure we eat well earlier in the day.

I have not idea what Friendship CC is as a food/drink. :)


Good luck, I hope you find ideas here that you can use.

 

[littleg]

Tara - I wasn't really low carb paleo, especially recently. Though recently with all my off-roading I'm more like 60/40 paleo these days...

So Day 3 was kind of a bust, pigged out that night, Day 4 and 5 were back to normalcy though. I'm so tired of my binge eating. Ugh.

Yesterday's food:

6:30 - coffee with ~2/3c skim and tsp sugar (turned out the molasses wasn't blackstrap - gonna buy some today)
Left for work
9:30 - nanner with 4% CC (cottage cheese)
3ish - work got busy - tried to eat at 1:30 - 3oz beef, spiralized zucchini with 1/2 pepper fried in coconut oil, 1 oz shredded parm, 1/4 serving of homemade gummies
5ish - 2.5 oz soft goat cheese, 1 lb strawberries, 1 apple
8ish - after work - 8 oz carrots, 4 more apples, 1.5oz feta, handful of strawberries

2100 cals, 140P/64F/270CHO

Ca:P is still 2:1. I don't really know how to fix that
Forgot my Vit D and folate yesterday... I always mean to take Vit D at lunch since I've read some anecdotes that Vit D early/mid day helps with sleep (kinda makes sense... since that is when Vit D production would be maximized if I were not stuck in a hospital 12 hrs a day).

Overall I feel like my body needs *something* but I'm just not sure what it is. My random thoughts on this topic:
- I'm still oddly craving smoked oysters
- I'm not sure about eating this much cheese. It is way too easy for me to overeat when its around and I come home at 8 PM after a 14hr day. Sometimes I feel like my body just wants some fat - but the 2 oz "snack" turns into an 8oz "oops". But on the other hand, when I only have the 2oz (like at work, since that is allI have access to) I do think it is a good snack
- Lately eggs have been making my GI system feel "meh" so I'm kinda stuck on what to eat for protein/fat - that I can afford (I'd love to eat just shrimp with butter and parmesan cheese!) besides muscle meat
- Even though I totally love fruit I am getting a little tired of apples :)

 

[schultz]

Messtafarian, a forum member, had an e-mail exchange with Ray where Ray said this...

"An increased intake of calcium is the single most important nutritional thing for losing weight."

If you're trying to lose weight, I would focus on getting your calcium:phosphorus ratio to at least 1:1. This seems to be especially helpful when calories are below maintenance. Also, the high calcium seems to spare muscle at the same time.

Here are some interesting articles:

Effects of calcium and dairy on body composition and weight loss in African-American adults.
The high dairy diet resulted in decreases in total body fat (2.16 kg, p < 0.01), trunk fat (1.03 kg, p < 0.01), insulin (18.7 pM, p < 0.04), and blood pressure (6.8 mm Hg systolic, p < 0.01; 4.25 mm Hg diastolic, p < 0.01) and an increase in lean mass (1.08 kg, p < 0.04), whereas there were no significant changes in the low dairy group. In the second trial, although both diets produced significant weight and fat loss, weight and fat loss on the high dairy diet were approximately 2-fold higher (p < 0.01), and loss of lean body mass was markedly reduced (p < 0.001) compared with the low dairy diet.

Calcium and dairy acceleration of weight and fat loss during energy restriction in obese adults.
Patients assigned to the standard diet lost 6.4 +/- 2.5% of their body weight, which was increased by 26% (to 8.6 +/- 1.1%) on the high-calcium diet and 70% (to 10.9 +/- 1.6% of body weight) on the high-dairy diet (p < 0.01). Fat loss was similarly augmented by the high-calcium and high-dairy diets, by 38% and 64%, respectively (p < 0.01). Moreover, fat loss from the trunk region represented 19.0 +/- 7.9% of total fat loss on the low-calcium diet, and this fraction was increased to 50.1 +/- 6.4% and 66.2 +/- 3.0% on the high-calcium and high-dairy diets, respectively (p < 0.001).

Calcium and weight: clinical studies.
Data from six observational studies and three controlled trials in which calcium intake was the independent variable (and either bone mass or blood pressure the original outcome variable) have been reanalyzed to evaluate the effect of calcium intake on body weight and body fat. Analysis reveals a consistent effect of higher calcium intakes, expressed as lower body fat and/or body weight, and reduced weight gain at midlife. Similarly, studies relating nutrient intake to body composition report negative associations between calcium intake and body weight at midlife and between calcium and body fat accumulation during childhood. There is a fairly consistent effect size, with each 300 mg increment in regular calcium intake associated with approximately 1 kg less body fat in children and 2.5-3.0 kg lower body weight in adults. Taken together these data suggest that increasing calcium intake by the equivalent of two dairy servings per day could reduce the risk of overweight substantially, perhaps by as much as 70 percent.

Calcium intake, body composition, and lipoprotein-lipid concentrations in adults.
A low daily calcium intake is associated with greater adiposity, particularly in women. In both sexes, a high calcium intake is associated with a plasma lipoprotein-lipid profile predictive of a lower risk of coronary heart disease risk compared with a low calcium intake.

Association between obesity and calcium:phosphorus ratio in the habitual diets of adults in a city of Northeastern Brazil: an epidemiological study

Dairy consumption is inversely associated with the prevalence of the metabolic syndrome in Tehranian adults.

 

[littleg]

When I was in grad school in an exercise physiology we were trying to get funding to study if overeating on dairy calories caused the same insulin sensitivity/weight changes as over eating on non-dairy foods. I am familiar with the idea that dairy somehow helps with weight loss. Although I've also read the studies that say the opposite, like this meta analysis (so who knows...)

Am J Clin Nutr. 2012 Oct;96(4):735-47. Epub 2012 Aug 29.
Effects of dairy intake on body weight and fat: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.

CONCLUSIONS:
This meta-analysis does not support the beneficial effect of increasing dairy consumption on body weight and fat loss in long-term studies or studies without energy restriction. However, dairy products may have modest benefits in facilitating weight loss in short-term or energy-restricted RCTs.

I just don't know how to get calcium up and phosphorous down in real life... without eating too much dairy (which will be too much of a caloric surplus). I get no satiety from liquid calories so drinking a lot of skim milk will also just be extra calories.

What would be an example of a daily menu of ~2000 cals with a good Ca:P ratio?

 

[charlie]

littleg,

 

[Jennifer]

I just don't know how to get calcium up and phosphorous down in real life... without eating too much dairy (which will be too much of a caloric surplus). I get no satiety from liquid calories so drinking a lot of skim milk will also just be extra calories.

What would be an example of a daily menu of ~2000 cals with a good Ca:P ratio?

Hi littleg! :)

Eggshell powder is a great way to get in extra calcium and this way you won't have to concern yourself with getting your phosphorus intake down. Honestly, I have no clue if calcium/dairy actually reduces weight long term, but it tastes great so that's incentive enough for me to want to consume it. Besides, you already sound like you're in great shape. 137 pounds on a female is perfectly beautiful and that future tiny human being may actually prefer those "extra" five pounds.

Take care and best of luck!

 

[littleg]

Does one make eggshell powder...?

Off to google it.

 

[littleg]

So I've got my one egg shell cleaned and hanging out in the fridge waiting for some friends before it gets baked and pulverized :)

Got actual blackstrap molasses too - it actually tastes better than the molasses I had around and didn't realize wasn't blackstrap.

Yesterday:

136 lbs
6:30 coffee with splash of skim and 1/2 tbsp molasses
7 AM crossfit - 3x5 power cleans @95. 4 rounds for time: 6 pull ups, 6 cleans @85, 12 burpees over bar, 300m run.
9:30 - 16oz cottage cheese (damn Friendship Dairies and your ingredient change! The only brand I can find now that is clean is 5.50 a lb! grr...), 1 banana, black coffee
2ish- 2 apples, ~1 lb of cherries (I love love love cherries but I don't digest them well. I knew this would be a mistake but they were so tasty... bloated and gassy the rest of the day)
4-6 - first hay of the season. helped stack 2 wagons and unload 1.
6 on: munched on crappy food and ate too much Corn chips, pasta with alfredo, the most delicious white chocolate chip cookies I've ever had (they were homemade!), ice cream, whipped cream... ***t show. But it didn't turn into a full fledged binge (as in I didn't then go to the store to continue eating crap). Small win.

Today:

Avoided the scale.
Black coffee this AM. Likely won't eat until early afternoon.

 

[Jennifer]

Today:

Avoided the scale.

Good girl! *high five*

 

[tara]

Can you eat more breakfast before you get into your workout, and more food overall through the day to sustain your physical labour? That could make quite a difference to your stress levels, and maybe make you less desperate for high calories in the evening?

 

[littleg]

I've tried eating more in the AM and have had some luck eating less. A lot of it is emotional eating. Some people drink wine or beer after work - I eat. Its like my "treat" for making it through the day. I know it is just a habit and at times when I've really worked at it I have had luck breaking the habit and eating better. I've only done it doing the Whole30 though - so low(er) carb, lots of veggies, meat - stuff like that. Foods I have no interest in eating right now.

I have been trying to be better about it though lately - I have coffee with milk and skim and molasses driving to work (within 1 hr of waking up) just to get some calories in vs not eating til 10-11 which was my norm (after getting up at 5). I eat 16oz of cottage cheese and a banana for breakfast (thats close to 600 calories). I can't figure out a good fit for adding more calories to lunch. I hate feeling bloated at work so I don't eat huge lunches. Sorry... I'm just whining - I'm sure I could find a way to do it if I wanted to but like a good little addict I have every excuse in the book not to.

 

[littleg]

Food today

Few handfuls of wild berries while walking the dogs this AM.

Crossfit at 4.

1/2 lb shrimp over spiralized zucchini - shrimp was with some butter and a BIG spoonful (well, a few big spoonfuls) of parmesan cheese. 1 lb strawberries, 1 apple, 1 lb green grapes.

 

[tara]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding right, but it seems as though you are considering ~2100 cals to be too much - ie binge eating, whereas from my view point, that may be undereating, esp. in the context of trying to improve metabolism and health. I've read credible analysis that average non-dieting weight-stable women eat on average about 2500 cals, and most of us don't do cross-fit and spend hours loading hay. (Most public calorie recommendations are based on studies of what people say they eat, as opposed to what they actually eat.)

Stress hormones are usually pretty high when you wake up, and adding coffee to that without lots of calories could well raise them higher, and crossfit, esp. while underfed, would certainly raise them higher still.

 

[littleg]

Hi Tara - thanks for helping me out!

I would say I eat 2000-2500 most days. When I binge its like 4000. Today (the day after a less-severe-than-normal binge) I under ate partly because I genuinely have less of an appetite and partly because of the eating disorder mentality that I need to compensate.

Typically I do crossfit at noon and will eat before it. Even as a kid I was not a breakfast eater. It was a constant battle with my mom to eat before school. Drinking a glass of OJ and a glass of milk was always her compromise. I guess she was a Ray Peat diet guru before the internet even existed :)

Another question for anyone popping in on this log - where can I find data about "poor" estrogen to progesterone values. As part of my fertility treatment I'm on progesterone and to be honest I feel noticeably different on it (better - happier, more awake/alert). I know I'm low for the luteal phase and the build-a-baby phase but how can I find out if my follicular phase value is too low too. Also, I have crazy low testosterone. Like immeasurable the few times its been tested. The MDs who have seen it just say "eh, you can't give a woman T anyway, so don't worry about it". Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

 

[littleg]

Yesterday

136

.5 c whole milk, 1 tbsp molasses in coffee
BF - 16 oz Friendship (last of my purchased tubs, inexpensive clean cottage cheese no longer possible... sigh), 1 banana
L - grassfed burger patty, homemade gummies, 1 lb grapes, baggie of carrots, Vit D
Sn - apple
D - 7 rice cakes with butter, 2 apples, banana soft serve with 1 tbsp peanut butter, 1 lb grapes

~2700 cals, 430 g C, 110P, 70F. Little too much food for a non exercise day. I know PB isn't the best but it makes the banana "ice cream" so tasty... Low in Ca (hubs has to eat some eggs so I can make calcium powder!).