Towards Ending Migraines

Douglas Ek

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Yes, I've got 100mg tablets, but usually 50mg is enough, and sometimes 25mg if I can get it at the right time. 25 mg is less incapacitating. I do only want to take it when I'm sure it's got to a point of no return, though. I've not tried naproxen, but I've tried other antiinflammatories with paracetamol. They used to sometimes stop them, now they seldom do. Did you find naproxen more effective than ibuprofen and the others?

Previous experiments with ginger have been ineffective. I'll try chomping on ginger root. :)
I'll look up the dragon's blood.
I'm thinking to wait till the new CGRP inhibitor drugs have been out a bit longer before following that up.
Thanks for the ideas.


Yes, thanks. I am concerned about the risk of overuse of medicine headaches, but at a loss about how to avoid overuse. I'm currently using mostly the daily prophylactic and abortant triptan, and less of the anti-inflammatories and/or paracetamol. I don't know what the relative risks are between all of these. I now probably hooked on at least two drugs.

Oohh thats so sad. Your living my nightmare. Had a migraine just 2 weeks ago for 5 days. Its theeeeee worst. Poor you having to struggle with it this often. From my experience with the ginger you need to get the fresh you know when it’s spicey and burning and chew that down. Like when you swallow a bit of the root it will burn in your stomach a bit but I get relief instantly after that. Maybe it’s just works for me who knows. But you should try it once. Yes the CGRP inhibitors are so new that we don’t really know the long term effects but if I was in your shoes I’d do anything. Have it always been like this or did it escalate and get more frequent after a certain age or event? Like giving birth?
 

Logan-

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I'm using pharmaceuticals to manage the frequent migraines I still get.

Are you using any prophylactic?

How about you?

I am the same. I tried 1.5 mg pizotifen last night, just to see how it would affect me. I feel like a drunk right now. Made me very sleepy, and hungry. I guess in time these effects would be lessened, but it would be still hard to maintain a good life with this. Low dose daily cypro could be better as a prophylactic, I guess.

I find that the frequency, severity and the duration of my migraines correspond to my general health status, especially my gut health.

I stopped taking B2 after learning from RP that the doses used for migraine prophylaxis are too much, even 50 mg is too much, he said (source: Ray Peat KMUD 12-18-15 Nitric Oxide Nitrates Nitrites and Fluoride Full Interview).

Still taking mag glycinate, it is very helpful.

Taking too much calcium at once can trigger migraines for me, even if I take high doses of K2 with it. It can also interfere with my sleep if I take it close to bedtime.
 

sunraiser

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I'm chiming in without having read your thread so I'm sorry if it seems like I'm trivialising, I don't mean to. Anyway, is it possible the source is something postural?

I thankfully only very very occasionally get them and luckily for me they respond to an aspirin and laying down.

I usually try and battle through them and this doesn't tend to work, so end up taking an aspirin. Something I've noticed is that the pain makes my neck and shoulders tense up and this seems to perpetuate the migraine. Aspirin takes the pain away and allows my shoulders and neck to relax and then the pain goes away.

Do you have to work or spend long hours at the computer?

There might be certain strengthening exercises or adjustments that can really help.

When you have a migraine do you notice that you can kind of burrow into a certain odd position with your shoulders and neck/head to lessen the pain?

Mine might be a different type to yours, and I'm very thankful not to feel them as badly as you. It'd be interesting to know if yours feel postural or tension based, though.
 
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tara

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Had a migraine just 2 weeks ago for 5 days. Its theeeeee worst.
Oooo. That's bad.
I had headaches from late teens, gradually worsened over decades till 2-3 day nightmares. I thought three days was intolerable.
With the current regime I'm not suffering so much or so long, but have frequent patches of reduced functioning (often several times a week).
I had some respite while pregnant, then back with a vengeance after births. Now post menopausal.
Stress, sleep disruption, hunger, food triggers and deficiences, weather/pressure changes may all play a role, maybe postural issue too, maybe there are more factors, but I'm obviously more sensitive than most to pretty normal variations. Hard to get everything right all the time.

The page you linked on natural CGRP inhibitors is interesting. Amongst other things, it says they work in part by increasing serotonin, if I'm reading it right, so there's that. It also talks about triptans causing overuse issues, which I've been wondering about.

Are you using any prophylactic?
Yes. After trying a long line of others over the years, I'm now using topiramate daily. I don't notice any obvious short term side effects, but I don't know about long term effects. It doesn't stop me getting migraines frequently, but it does seem to make a big difference in how quickly I recover when I take the triptan, so I'm pleased with that. I am pretty obviously dependent on it, because missing a dose by mistake sets me up for a bad run. That and concern about long term effects makes me think twice about increasing dose.



I am the same. I tried 1.5 mg pizotifen last night, just to see how it would affect me. I feel like a drunk right now. Made me very sleepy, and hungry. I guess in time these effects would be lessened, but it would be still hard to maintain a good life with this. Low dose daily cypro could be better as a prophylactic, I guess.

Pizotifen was my previous attempt at prophylactic pharma. I recognise sleepy and hungry. I wouldn't guarantee that will go away completely, but may lessen. It seems it works for some, so worht a try. I don't think it made very much difference to migraines for me.

Taking too much calcium at once can trigger migraines for me, even if I take high doses of K2 with it. It can also interfere with my sleep if I take it close to bedtime.
I only take about 400-500 mg Ca supp, and better to take most of that in the morning for me (I take it along with Mg carb and less frequent Zn). This lot seem to be a problem if I take in evening instead.

Anyway, is it possible the source is something postural?

I wouldn't rule out a postural/muscle tension/physical constriction component, but I don't think it's the only or main thing for me. I do work and and sometimes spend too much time at a computer, but I get just as many migraines when I'm away from that. I've spent some time trying to work at this aspect over the years (osteopath, massage, yoga, ...), but I'm sure there's more that could be done to help my muscular skeletal system, and who knows whether it would help. I do have some chronically tight neck and shoulder muscles. None of the work in this area has reduce migraines at all so far.
I thankfully only very very occasionally get them and luckily for me they respond to an aspirin and laying down.
That's great.
 

Douglas Ek

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Oooo. That's bad.
I had headaches from late teens, gradually worsened over decades till 2-3 day nightmares. I thought three days was intolerable.
With the current regime I'm not suffering so much or so long, but have frequent patches of reduced functioning (often several times a week).
I had some respite while pregnant, then back with a vengeance after births. Now post menopausal.
Stress, sleep disruption, hunger, food triggers and deficiences, weather/pressure changes may all play a role, maybe postural issue too, maybe there are more factors, but I'm obviously more sensitive than most to pretty normal variations. Hard to get everything right all the time.

The page you linked on natural CGRP inhibitors is interesting. Amongst other things, it says they work in part by increasing serotonin, if I'm reading it right, so there's that. It also talks about triptans causing overuse issues, which I've been wondering about.


Yes. After trying a long line of others over the years, I'm now using topiramate daily. I don't notice any obvious short term side effects, but I don't know about long term effects. It doesn't stop me getting migraines frequently, but it does seem to make a big difference in how quickly I recover when I take the triptan, so I'm pleased with that. I am pretty obviously dependent on it, because missing a dose by mistake sets me up for a bad run. That and concern about long term effects makes me think twice about increasing dose.





Pizotifen was my previous attempt at prophylactic pharma. I recognise sleepy and hungry. I wouldn't guarantee that will go away completely, but may lessen. It seems it works for some, so worht a try. I don't think it made very much difference to migraines for me.


I only take about 400-500 mg Ca supp, and better to take most of that in the morning for me (I take it along with Mg carb and less frequent Zn). This lot seem to be a problem if I take in evening instead.



I wouldn't rule out a postural/muscle tension/physical constriction component, but I don't think it's the only or main thing for me. I do work and and sometimes spend too much time at a computer, but I get just as many migraines when I'm away from that. I've spent some time trying to work at this aspect over the years (osteopath, massage, yoga, ...), but I'm sure there's more that could be done to help my muscular skeletal system, and who knows whether it would help. I do have some chronically tight neck and shoulder muscles. None of the work in this area has reduce migraines at all so far.

That's great.

Yes, I'm quite sure low serotonin is a function of how migraines develop. Estrogen seems to be a major player here. From the research, I've done drops as well as spikes in estrogen trigger migraines through serotonin and it's receptor modulation. It's complex and I don't think we have the capacity to fully understand it. Thinking back when I was on an SSRI my migraines completely went away during that time. But yeah SSRI's are not an option obviously. And I know from tanking my estrogen by using an Aromatase Inhibitor I had the worst and longest migraine ever and if you search the webb this is a common pattern. Too low estrogen causes migraines. The dragons blood think increases 5HT through MAO inhibition. Ginger that has studies supporting it as a migraine treatment just as good as sumatriptans
Comparison between the efficacy of ginger and sumatriptan in the ablative treatment of the common migraine. - PubMed - NCBI
Also, it increases brain serotonin in alcoholics who have depleted dopamine and serotonin.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6432/36d691018511f68a5bedd83997f39cd4c8e0.pdf

This is why we use ergot drugs, triptans and back in the old day's tricyclic antidepressants as a treatment for migraines. They all work on serotonin

Also, I've had a couple of bad years I fooled around with MDMA which depletes serotonin and that in turn gave me a period where I did have a lot more migraines so there seems to be a connection.

I don't think that low estrogen per say has anything to do with migraines but I think spikes/fluctuations in estrogen has sucha impact on the serotonin system. This, in turn, acts on the trigeminal nerve releasing CGRP causing the swelling and inflammation resulting in migraine.

How is your vitamin D status?
Have you heard about vitamins and minerals used to treat migraine? Some has really positive research on them:

Riboflavin (vit B2) has a lot of research behind it as a preventative.
High-dose riboflavin treatment is efficacious in migraine prophylaxis: an open study in a tertiary care centre. - PubMed - NCBI
Effectiveness of riboflavin in pediatric migraine prevention
https://migraineagain.com/take-b2-for-migraine/

Magnesium
Magnesium in Migraine Prophylaxis-Is There an Evidence-Based Rationale? A Systematic Review. - PubMed - NCBI
Magnesium in headache - Magnesium in the Central Nervous System - NCBI Bookshelf

Vitamin D
Vitamin D: Is it a primary hormone targeting the migraine headache or just as adjunct therapy?
The relationship between serum levels of vitamin D and migraine
Excess vitamin D can be bad for migraines though.

Those are from what I know the supplements with scientific evidence that they actually work.
 
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Logan-

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@tara, have you tried feverfew, butterbur, cyproheptadine, caffeine, aspirin for the migraine prophylaxis?
 
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tara

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@tara, have you tried feverfew, butterbur, cyproheptadine, caffeine, aspirin for the migraine prophylaxis?
I've tried all of those except butterbur. It's on the list.
 
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tara

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tara

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How is your vitamin D status?
Doctor wasn't interested in testing when I asked a few years ago. I might take one of Dr Gominak's articles along to a different doctor I've seen since.
Riboflavin (vit B2) has a lot of research behind it as a preventative.
I experimented with high dose riboflavin. Didn't get obviously better effect from 400mg than from 10mg. Suspect some of the other Bs are also helpful. Got a bit slack about these for a while, am trying to resume regularity on these.
Magnesium
Supplementing magnesium seems important. Possibly I could increase dose, or add or vary forms. Currently mostly Mg carbonate with occasional topical MgCl, supplementing what I get from fruit and veges.
 

lampofred

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Very high brain activity is a possible cause of migraines (aka excess glutamate). I used to get migraines back when I was still intelligent and here a few things that worked for me (even though you've probably tried most of these already):

100% sure you've tried these:
-keeping blood sugar high, keeping CO2 high via bag breathing/hypoventilation, because sugar and CO2 are the molecules your body uses to remove glutamate from the synapse

Maybe one of these is new:
-breathing fully in through the left nostril, retaining for as long as possible, breathing out through right nostril
-also just inhaling deeply through both nostrils, retaining the breath for as long as possible to really build the CO2, and then breathing out
-the Sitkali pranayama or Sitkari pranayama which are easily found online, which are cooling
-being thoughtless. Glutamate becomes majorly active when engaged in thinking.

This is probably too extreme but anti-seizure drugs would probably help a lot by blocking sodium channels/calcium channels to increase intracellular potassium and magnesium
 
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tara

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-keeping blood sugar high
Mostly got a handle on this.
keeping CO2 high via bag breathing/hypoventilation,
Still a long way to go on this. Trying to change it too fast seems to be a trigger in itself too.
-being thoughtless. Glutamate becomes majorly active when engaged in thinking.
This is tough, esp. when life has a pile of challenges - as I've said before, it would be nice to have some time to actually meet basic needs on a regular basis and do the things I already know would help, like get regular rest, movement, sleep, etc, and not keep getting more difficult stresses to figure out.
 

achillea

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My wife has a terrible headache every night, so I am very involved in finding answers.

I must say that for about 6 weeks she has been wearing Irlen glass lenses and she has noted an incredible change. The Irlen syndrome has been scientifically researched for 30+ years. Total cost for exam and lenses was $500 US

In a nut shell the lenses are especially designed for your brain to reduce inflammation. There is a spectrograph on the website of a brain before and after. Amazing.


Her initial interest was in children who were restless in school and had a hard time reading. The throw away children of today. Drug um. She found they could not see words correctly.


She has recently done some studies with the vets with traumatic head injury who live in the dark and have given up. Wonderful results.


I know there are Irlen practitioners in Great Britain as I have visited their website.
 

nerfherder

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I might take one of Dr Gominak's articles along to a different doctor I've seen since.

My 2c: I watched Dr Gominak's talks and tried out supplementing 15kIU of vitamin D (and the Bs). I figured what the heck, it is cheap and easy to try it out. My full migraines (cervicogenic) had already been way reduced by carefully looking at posture and sleep position but still I would wake up every morning with a stiff, sore neck and had poor sleep. Gominak's position is that this is not normal and still a problem.

Within 2 days of vitamin D my sleep was way better and now 2 months later my stiff neck seems to have gone too. I can doze in the mornings instead of getting up fully alert at small sounds or movement. I sleep through the night without having to get up to use the bathroom and have way more energy in the day.
 
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tara

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My 2c: I watched Dr Gominak's talks and tried out supplementing 15kIU of vitamin D (and the Bs). I figured what the heck, it is cheap and easy to try it out. My full migraines (cervicogenic) had already been way reduced by carefully looking at posture and sleep position but still I would wake up every morning with a stiff, sore neck and had poor sleep. Gominak's position is that this is not normal and still a problem.

Within 2 days of vitamin D my sleep was way better and now 2 months later my stiff neck seems to have gone too. I can doze in the mornings instead of getting up fully alert at small sounds or movement. I sleep through the night without having to get up to use the bathroom and have way more energy in the day.
Glad you've got such improvement. :)
 

Zpol

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@tara Just wanted to shout out my appreciation for this thread and all you contribute. I too have migraines. I've been able to improve just about every other aspect of my health, even managed to avoid migraines for several years after finding out I had Celiac and subsequently going GF... but unfortunately have begun getting migraines again. Just had to refill my Zomig Rx, so sad.

Quick question... I think I read that you take Pregnenalone; does it help with migraine frequency/intensity and if so, how much, how often, which brand? I think mine are hormonal as they do typically come around the beginning of my cycle (I'm 40 yrs old), I already take progesterone for PCOS. My basic plan of action from here, in addition to pro-thyroid diet, is Idealabs Energin divided dose 2x per day, Stressnon 70mg 1x per day (continue with progesterone days 18-28 of cycle), Magnesium bicarb water or mag chloride in OJ possibly with a pinch of potassium bicarb, early morning red light LGS1 model 5-8 min per day on face, temples, neck, SPERTI vit D lamp 4min per day, Kuinone, and Cascara.
Not sure about the best type of magnesium to take.
 
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tara

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Quick question... I think I read that you take Pregnenalone; does it help with migraine frequency/intensity and if so, how much, how often, which brand?
Hi Zpol, Nice to hear from you. Good that you've had such improvements all round, and nice that you got a break from migraine for while, and sorry that you've had some return. I had a brief experiment with pregnenolone - idealabs - quite a while ago, but didn't continue at that time. I might again at some stage. My first go didn't make for any obvious improvements.

I'm not sure with the Mg either. I've been mostly using Mg carbonate lately, trying to source some Mg malate ATM. I also use some Mg chloride (magnesium oil) topically from time to time. And eat fruit and veges, including leaves. Wonder whether mixing it up might have advantages.
 

alywest

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IMHO after experimenting with EVERYTHING...it all has to do with serotonin receptors. That's why ondansetron (5HT3 receptor antagonist) and triptans (5HT1B and 1D receptor agonists) work so well together. And not all triptans are created equally. Sumatriptan doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, rizatriptan does. They also just approved one that is a nasal spray using sumatriptan, so it get's to where it needs to in the brain better. If you can start to learn your triggers really well and get the ondansetron and a low dose of rizatriptan soon enough, you will get full relief. If you wait too long you need to take the ibuprofen naproxen in England?) as well.
 

Logan-

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Has anyone tried progesterone for aborting their acute migraines? Ray Peat suggested it helps with the migraines.
 

Zpol

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Hi Zpol, Nice to hear from you. Good that you've had such improvements all round, and nice that you got a break from migraine for while, and sorry that you've had some return. I had a brief experiment with pregnenolone - idealabs - quite a while ago, but didn't continue at that time. I might again at some stage. My first go didn't make for any obvious improvements.

I'm not sure with the Mg either. I've been mostly using Mg carbonate lately, trying to source some Mg malate ATM. I also use some Mg chloride (magnesium oil) topically from time to time. And eat fruit and veges, including leaves. Wonder whether mixing it up might have advantages.

Thanks for the reply! I'm confident we can figure this out. I find it helpful to read through your experiences to get ideas.

IMHO after experimenting with EVERYTHING...it all has to do with serotonin receptors. That's why ondansetron (5HT3 receptor antagonist) and triptans (5HT1B and 1D receptor agonists) work so well together. And not all triptans are created equally. Sumatriptan doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, rizatriptan does. They also just approved one that is a nasal spray using sumatriptan, so it get's to where it needs to in the brain better. If you can start to learn your triggers really well and get the ondansetron and a low dose of rizatriptan soon enough, you will get full relief. If you wait too long you need to take the ibuprofen naproxen in England?) as well.

Good to know. I've been taking Zolmitriptan ("Zomig"). It definitely works but it gives me a mini flare up (I have Celiac), wide spread flesh pain like bruises all over, so I don't like to take it too often. I read there's a nasal spray so for that one too so I'll try that next and hopefully avoid the side effects. Are you taking anything or doing anything to prevent the migraines entirely or just taking the ondansetron and rizatriptan when the migraines starts? I think I read on another post you take acetazolamide; do you still take it? I get a lot of brain stem area stiffness/soreness with the migraine which makes me wonder if that's part of the cause. It's a similar feeling to the onset of influenza or other virus (like herpes zoster) so I'm also taking lysine and BCAA's that contain lysine and no arginine. Also doing some neck stretches throughout the day. And, like you, never ever let blood sugar drop. Also I have B12 and folic acid and other B vit deficiences, so much so that my eye lid keeps twitching so guess I got to bit the bullet and take B supp's. I do take inositol and some other things to support methylation but I guess it's not enough. One more question for you... do you find it necessary to take T3 throughout the day or do you take it twice a day (it's typically prescribed 2x per day I think). Currently I take 5MCG of Cytomel morning and another 5MCG at night. In the morning I also take Levothyronine 50MCG, so this is near to the ratio Doc RP suggests but I'm wondering if I should split the Cytomel up even further. I'm not liking the idea of taking serotonin antagonists due to the constipation effects but I think there's something to the BCAA supplementation...
A new method for rapidly and simultaneously decreasing serotonin and catecholamine synthesis in humans
I have some of the Impower Pro Amino BCAA's which do not contain tryptophan or tyrosine but it does have phenylalanine. I think the last time I took these, I took about 20 capsules per day, amounting to about a gram each of the important AA's in the supp., and did not experience migraines at the time. I had to quit because I had esophagus related problems (due to Celiac probably) and could not swallow the capsules. I might try emptying out the capsules in OJ or something and start that up again.


Has anyone tried progesterone for aborting their acute migraines? Ray Peat suggested it helps with the migraines.
I take progesterone regularly including at the onset of the migraine, it does not help in that manner. I just got some pregnenalone from idealabs so I'll be taking that in combination.
 

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