Towards Ending Migraines

[squanch]

Or does liver have a range of forms and likely cover my bases well enough anyway?

I eat a lot of liver and oysters but still feel a noticeable increase in energy and wellbeing with supplemental b12 (Injections). Intestinal absorption of b12 from food sources is quite a complex issue, I first got into the topic when I was still vegan but I am not really up to date on the science anymore to be honest.Maybe someone else knows more here.

Since I haven't tried the sublingual methylcobalamin, which seems easier to come by, maybe that's worth a try too?

I think the nitric oxide scavenging properties are unique to the hydroxycobalamin form. It also stays in your body a lot longer and has some other interesting properties (cyanide antidote) .
Methylcobalamin in higher doses always gave me skin issues and this weird, jittery form of energy. Not a big fan to be honest, but some people seem to do well on it.

The study Hugh pointed to was for intranasal delivery. I wonder if the same formulation could work for that?

Sure. The ones I have are just hydroxycobalamin, water, sodium chloride and acetic acid.
Not sure how you're going to get it in your nose though
Those are the ones I'm using btw:
VITAMIN B12 Depot Hevert Ampullen 10 St. PZN:6078368: Amazon.de: Drogerie & Körperpflege

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Thanks Hugh.
My initial hunt for a local source of hydroxycobalamin seems to show intramuscular injection by prescription, and no other sources.
I've been supplementing small amounts of cyanocobalamin for many months, and eat liver regularly. I haven't got my head around the pros and cons of the different forms of B12.

Nasal absorption of hydroxocobalamin in healthy elderly adults

A nasal spray might be good. I used a B12 spray meant for under the tongue when I had some headaches I suspected were caused by a deficiency.

 

[Kray]

Hi BB,
Just responding here so I can keep this advice with my main migraine content. :)
Thanks for these suggestions. How much folic acid do you use? I think there may be concerns about large doses, but maybe a little would be worth a try. I may have some lying around from when I was pregnant, though that would be pretty old.
I'm trying to be more systematic about Mg supplement, but I like that idea of quick topical solution on a threatening migraine. I have some Mg oil, but it irritates my skin, so I don't use it regularly. Just mixed a little with water and slopped on the back of my neck last night - will try to remember that option as another thing to throw at it.

Hi, not trying to sell a brand, but this came on my radar while looking for a topical magnesium spray: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XIT2X50/?tag=rapefo-20

The first thing noted on reviews is that it doesn't cause burning or leave a filmy, tacky feeling on the skin.

Has anyone on this thread tried topical form of Mg? I wonder how much is actually absorbed and utilized by the body (same as with Mg baths, although your whole body is exposed, and in warm water, but I don't find time for many baths) as compared to oral Mg supplements.

Any feedback appreciated.

 

[tara]

Hi Classicallady,
It looks as though this is MgCl solution, just a bit more diluted with water than the strongest Mg oil products?
I have tried diluting my MgCl oil with a bit of water, but maybe not enough. Perhaps worth a try to mix it with more water before applying to see if my skin finds it ok that way.
I managed to interrupt a muscle cramp quite quickly the other day with a bit of topical MgCl on less sensitive skin. Because of skin irritation, I've not tried it systematically enough to know if I can get enough Mg this way.

 

[heartnhands]

Re: towards ending migraines - dry CO2 bath bag report

Dry CO2 bath experiment 1:
Today I we finally cracked open the CO2 bottle :) . We did a small experiment first to get used to the process, and figured it wasn't too hard to control the flow of gas. I got in a big bag, squeezed out as much air as I easily could, held it roughly closed round my neck. Then my co-experimenter released the CO2 into the bag via the hose. She tied the top loosely round my neck, and we sat there for c. 40 min chatting. Gas going in felt cool, but I was soon warmer with less clothes than I'd been before getting in. No dramatic sensations. Breathed occasional whiff as moving puffed some out the top of the bag. Could kind of taste it. Lots of ice on valve and bottle, some on hose. Glad I lagged the outlet pipe.
Couldn't tell any major difference in how I felt. But maybe slight positive? Didn't interrupt current premigraine threat. Will try again.
Will try to improve process by trying to suck out more of the air from the bag before filling.This should increase CO2 concentration. Maybe with vacuum cleaner? Rig up a drawstring so I can control the neck opening from the inside, and possibly control the fill myself. Don't think I need an expensive regulator.

Boring migraine experience this week:
Fought migraine last Sunday, went down badly Monday and Tuesday. Even the sumatriptan wasn't as effective as usual - I'm only supposed to have 3 doses max in 24 hrs, and that wasn't enough to keep me out of pain. Fighting it again yesterday and today. Possible triggers: late night/short sleep/late rise this morning. Busy morning, less morning food, less chocolate, late lunch (but still did have some fuel every waking hour). Physical activity yesterday evening. Maybe I should go to smaller quantity more often (more hassle). Liver yesterday? Not enough sun for a few days? Emotional stuff. On top of continuous background factors as described before. Wish me luck. I want to go out and play.

Canary
sueq: Brain as canary in the mine but the canary is in charge of getting you out of the shaft. Once the brain is going down, it gets hard to think what to do about it, and forget/have less energy to do stuff I know that might help (let alone keep my spelling straight :) )

Re: towards ending migraines - dry CO2 bath bag report

Dry CO2 bath experiment 1:
Today I we finally cracked open the CO2 bottle :) . We did a small experiment first to get used to the process, and figured it wasn't too hard to control the flow of gas. I got in a big bag, squeezed out as much air as I easily could, held it roughly closed round my neck. Then my co-experimenter released the CO2 into the bag via the hose. She tied the top loosely round my neck, and we sat there for c. 40 min chatting. Gas going in felt cool, but I was soon warmer with less clothes than I'd been before getting in. No dramatic sensations. Breathed occasional whiff as moving puffed some out the top of the bag. Could kind of taste it. Lots of ice on valve and bottle, some on hose. Glad I lagged the outlet pipe.
Couldn't tell any major difference in how I felt. But maybe slight positive? Didn't interrupt current premigraine threat. Will try again.
Will try to improve process by trying to suck out more of the air from the bag before filling.This should increase CO2 concentration. Maybe with vacuum cleaner? Rig up a drawstring so I can control the neck opening from the inside, and possibly control the fill myself. Don't think I need an expensive regulator.

Boring migraine experience this week:
Fought migraine last Sunday, went down badly Monday and Tuesday. Even the sumatriptan wasn't as effective as usual - I'm only supposed to have 3 doses max in 24 hrs, and that wasn't enough to keep me out of pain. Fighting it again yesterday and today. Possible triggers: late night/short sleep/late rise this morning. Busy morning, less morning food, less chocolate, late lunch (but still did have some fuel every waking hour). Physical activity yesterday evening. Maybe I should go to smaller quantity more often (more hassle). Liver yesterday? Not enough sun for a few days? Emotional stuff. On top of continuous background factors as described before. Wish me luck. I want to go out and play.

Canary
sueq: Brain as canary in the mine but the canary is in charge of getting you out of the shaft. Once the brain is going down, it gets hard to think what to do about it, and forget/have less energy to do stuff I know that might help (let alone keep my spelling straight :) )

Dear Tara: This thread was sent to me because I wanted to know how the canister practice went for folks...I wonder where you got the canister and about how much it cost? Was how much did it weigh and did it come with the necessary hoses and such? Have you continued with this or other C02 practices? When I had severe headaches due to inflamation the medication Topamax worked very well. I searched in the forum and one person seems to mentioned using it to get rid of serotonin.

 

[tara]

Hi heartnhands,
I have a largish tank that holds 3 kg. It cost quite a bit (3 digits). They have to be well made because of the high pressure involved. Mine came with a manual valve and a simple hose. This is OK for what I've needed so far. For some purposes a proper regulator is probably useful.
I think there are people in the US who have used the kind of cannisters associated with paint ball, but they don't hold as much.
Density: 1.977 kg/m3 (gas at 1 atm and 0 °C)
If you decide to try the dry CO2 bath, I'd recommend having someone with you at least the first time, so someone will notice if you accidentally breathe too much of it, and having doors open in case it gets out of control.
I meant to repeat it, but haven't got around to it - still would like to. But I have used smaller bags of CO2 on minor injuries several times. It made the local area noticably red and warm, which I think demonstrates increased circulation and/or oxygen delivery.

I've been offered topiramate as possible migraine prophylaxis, but not tried it yet. Thanks for mentioning your experience with it. It's on my list to try eventually. I weaned off my last drug end of last year, and started feverfew this year. Not stunningly effective so far, but I think maybe a small benefit in reduced severity.

 

[heartnhands]

Hi heartnhands,
I have a largish tank that holds 3 kg. It cost quite a bit (3 digits). They have to be well made because of the high pressure involved. Mine came with a manual valve and a simple hose. This is OK for what I've needed so far. For some purposes a proper regulator is probably useful.
I think there are people in the US who have used the kind of cannisters associated with paint ball, but they don't hold as much.
Density: 1.977 kg/m3 (gas at 1 atm and 0 °C)
If you decide to try the dry CO2 bath, I'd recommend having someone with you at least the first time, so someone will notice if you accidentally breathe too much of it, and having doors open in case it gets out of control.
I meant to repeat it, but haven't got around to it - still would like to. But I have used smaller bags of CO2 on minor injuries several times. It made the local area noticably red and warm, which I think demonstrates increased circulation and/or oxygen delivery.

I've been offered topiramate as possible migraine prophylaxis, but not tried it yet. Thanks for mentioning your experience with it. It's on my list to try eventually. I weaned off my last drug end of last year, and started feverfew this year. Not stunningly effective so far, but I think maybe a small benefit in reduced severity.

At least you have options to work on. Glad you are getting some relief. My head injury was a decade of head achs, no fun. The Topamax is much less expensive and if it's actions decrease seretonin, win/win. I'll look for your relief. Thanks for your response.

Thanks again.

 

[InChristAlone]

I didn't read every comment but I saw someone suggest eye drills and was wondering if you looked into that? I can forward you some to try that helped a migraine sufferer in another peat group.

 

[heartnhands]

I didn't read every comment but I saw someone suggest eye drills and was wondering if you looked into that? I can forward you some to try that helped a migraine sufferer in another peat group.

Are you talking about the Dr. Bates exercises? They work wonders for keeping eye sight.

 

[HDD]

This is from the book by Broda Barnes.

"Solved: The Riddle of Heart Attacks"

"Migraine headaches are disabling at frequent intervals. They run in families just as hypothyroidism does. The fatigue may alter the fluids in the body . and the tissues swell . These patients learn that at the time of a headache their shoe-laces must be loosened because the feet expand. The brain cannot expand, and the pain may even lead to vomiting. The patient goes to bed, the rest eliminates the swelling, and recovery occurs. Thyroid therapy will raise the threshold of fatigue, and about 95 percent of the migraines can be avoided Excessive fatigue may cause a recurrer.ce at any time . Headaches frorn sinus infections are far more common, and some improvement in tnese will occur if the resistance to infection is raised with thyroid."

 

[Bodhi]

Tara,

Have you considered to give up all for a week and do a detox/fasting to do colonics to clean out the colon?

If you combine this with broths, fruits, coconut (juices) you can be sure the colon is sterile after this, then see what the effect is on migraines
If migraines stop you know its endotoxin and high serotonin, if migraine comes back when introducing certain foods you know which foods to avoid.
You can also combine this with doing a gallbladder flush at the end of the fast, it helps liver function, thus breakdown of estrogen and converting to T3.

 

[InChristAlone]

They are similar to Bates, but they are meant to improve the nervous system. They are from Z-health's vision gym: The Six Muscles to Include in Every Training Session | Article | PTontheNet

 

[Luann]

@tara
used to get terrible migraines at least once a week, they were caused by fluoride. Didn't figure this out for years until my eleven-year-old brother came home from school with a headache, saying, "It was (caused by) the water." That's when I realized my migraines struck the day after I went to my community college class, every week. Water table research revealed fluoride in the water of both schools. These days I take water to school and have no migraines, except maybe once every two months when I drink more than a glas of water or rehydrated soda from work (another place with fluoride in its water.)
Fluoride is hard on a weakened thyroid, so check your water table online.

 

[Luann]

I don't know why they were so bad as a kid but I do remember that they got worse when at a friend's house or at summer camp, which tells me they could have been caused by fluoride in their tap. And I did see someone say they had pain caused by lettuce. Lettuce, the EPA writes, has more fluoride due to pest sprays than most crops.
I hope you all get well, migraines are rough. To miss out on a whole day, and feel brain-dead and tired, that's rough.

 

[tara]

Thanks all for the ideas @Janelle525, @HDD, @Bodhi, @Liubo

I don't think there is much if any flouride in the water here (the dentists etc have so far not managed to apply enough pressure to change that).

Haven't had a serious go at eye exercises yet, seems like a good idea to try - I'll add that to my list.

I'm reluctant to embark on any serious fasting or elimination diet, even juice fasting, because hunger seems to be a pretty reliable trigger for me, and if I don't go down with it, hunger tends to drive me to eat whatever I can get my hands/mouth on. Maybe sometime I'll have space in my life where I can apply myself for a few days to experimenting with fruit/juice and broth.

I've gradually increased an NDT thyroid supplement over the last year or so. Last time I measured waking temps a few times I was up to 36.4, which is an improvement. Had a one off of 36.7, but I woke up feeling overheated that morning, so I suspect it was an aberration. There is definitely no reduction in migraine frequency - if anything more frequent, but I think I'm recovering and more quickly and having more energy in between. Recently I got hold of some T3, and been very cautiously adding a little of that - I intend to increase this a bit and see if it helps more.

Hi tara,
I definitely don't want to jump over Haidut's answer to you.
But as an aside, if the question was for yourself, have you tried buteyko breathing?
I tried the Control Pause test tonight and did terrible. Like 20 seconds.
And really, we do a lot of breathing exercises in my training and I still sucked at Buteyko.
We do something similar in my school called Misogi breathing. Whenever we do it, I just cheat. Absurd, I know.

Though they never tell us why we do the things we do in training (they believe in physical transmission- not scripture or lecture), it is very interesting that they came up with the same goal as Buteyko. The main teacher who does Misogi can do the exhale for 3 minutes. It's just weird.

But now there are enough data points that this is something to pursue.

Thanks for these ideas. Just bringing this over here to avoid cluttering Haidut's metergoline thread.
I have played a bit with various ways of trying to improve CO2 levels, but not made significant progress with CP. It is still very low - typically less than 10s, occasionally up around 10s. I'm sure this is part of the distress picture. I did sort out some of my breathing habits though - I've successfully retrained to mostly nasal diaphragmatic breathing, and I do practice some breathing exercises from time to time. Noticed that the ujayi breathing in yoga class was quite a strong technique. My early attempts at using Rakhimov's breathing training device (DIY version) seemed to trigger migraines for me. Though at the time I don't think I may not have been eating enough - both calories and micros - to support it. My breathing is typically pretty slow while in migraine state. I expect there is more to be done with this - as scarce time allows.

 

[tara]

If you are worried about serotonin know that milk increases serotonin a lot in my experience. I am very sensitive to tryptophan and almost immediately get migraines when I have a lot. In fact the cheese, ice cream, and eggs are all very high in tryptophan, some of the highest foods actually. Serotonin galore. I understand the importance of calcium here but I think it is better to avoid high doses of tryptophan than have a lot of calcium.

Hi Constantine,
Just dragging this over to my migraine thread to avoid cluttering the other one with my sidetrack, and so I can find it again. :)
I can't remember if you've spelled out what you did to solve this problem? Where did you get your protein? Did you become less sensitive to the tryptophan over time, or do you still have to keep it quite low?

 

[Constatine]

Hi Constantine,
Just dragging this over to my migraine thread to avoid cluttering the other one with my sidetrack, and so I can find it again. :)
I can't remember if you've spelled out what you did to solve this problem? Where did you get your protein? Did you become less sensitive to the tryptophan over time, or do you still have to keep it quite low?

After improving mitochondria health and eating well for quite some time I find that I no longer have to worry about high tryptophan foods. I believe consuming lots of gelatin or collagen protein has had a dramatic effect on how I respond to trypophan and my migraine frequency in general (reducing it no zero in fact).

 

[tara]

After improving mitochondria health and eating well for quite some time I find that I no longer have to worry about high tryptophan foods. I believe consuming lots of gelatin or collagen protein has had a dramatic effect on how I respond to trypophan and my migraine frequency in general (reducing it no zero in fact).

Thanks Constatine. I do make broths out of soup bones often, as gelatinous as I can find, and eat the gristly bits when they are soft enough, but it's probably not getting me that much. I'll see if I can get myself back to more regular jellies etc.

 

[tara]

CGRP antibody therapy trials
New drugs being developed to counter migraine involve antibodies to CGRP (calcitonin genene-related peptide). At an initial very superficial scan:
Seems CGRP can play an important role in pain signalling, and also involved in neurogenesis after injury.
I've read different things about where CGRP is produced: thyroid, trigeminal ganglion, motor neurons?
Some studies on humans show excellent results for some participants in reducing frequency and severity of migraine (eg daily to monthly frequency!), but not everyone. I hope that reducing CGRP in a way that reduce the ability of the CNS to maintain and learn and recover etc.

 

[nerfherder]

Curious if there's an RP-friendly way to modulate CGRP.

The only other reference to CGRP on the site I see is this one: Is Swelling Necessary For Brain Repair?