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MitoLipin - Liquid Saturated Phosphatidylcholine (PC) Mix

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Ok, so to be clear... we all understand that:
    - Phosphatidylcholine, in some people, can result in the formation of trimethylamine N-oxide (aka TMAO).
    -> TMAO is an endotoxin that forms when certain gut microbes (I'm not sure which strains) consume foods containing the choline group of the PC lipid.
    -> Presence of TMAO is highly correlated to heart disease.
    -> One way to know if gut microbiota are forming this TMAO, is if one develops a fishy smell when consuming PC.
    -> Rats have reported a fishy smell when using MitoLipin, a PC supplement
    -> The fishy smell in MitoLipin is from the Vitamin E which is used as a solvent
    -> MitoLipin does not produce TMAO in those who have the aforementioned gut microbes
    = MitoLipin does not contribute to the formation of TMAO, and is therefore safe for rats who have heart disease.

    Am I correct in this logic?
     
  2. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    is the same TMAO issue correct for choline bitatrate or other non fat based forms of choline?
     
  3. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    @haidut any chance of getting MitoLipin in a non-vitamin E base?
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    It still used vitamin E. We tried a few different formulations but it always solidified unless there is a significant percentage of vitamin E in it. So, until we find another solvent it looks like it will be using vitamin E.
     
  5. Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    I haven't researched other types of choline in depth yet, but this article might be useful to you in directing your own research (warning; It is actually an add, but I am in not way endorsing the product)...
    Choline Citrate is Safe… Here’s what you need to know

    Personally, I'm going with the MitoLipin based on my above logic, I'm skipping choline supps for now, just sticking with 2 eggs per day and some dessicated liver.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Excellent, thanks for the feedback!
     
  7. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    Thanks for this. Do you believe the TMAO thing, sounds like it would be a great marketing ploy. Create a problem, offer a solution.....

    But maybe it is a real issue. I'll look into it. Thanks
     
  8. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    What feeling did you get from alpha GPC?
     
  9. Baleia

    Baleia New Member

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    hello haidut, I just bought it and I'm very excited to try it. I'm planning to take it topically. my bottle says the serving size is 2ml (40 drops). what would be the equivalent topical dosage, since it has better absorption that way?
     
  10. Zpol

    Zpol Member

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    Too much TMAO produced in the body is a real problem. It happens when PC and it's metabolites are not digested by gut bacteria properly.
    There is a one 'Dr. Hazen' who is trying to make a profit off this by creating a supplement to prevent this from happening. I would keep that in mind when reading anything published by him. (Not saying all his research is invalid, just something to keep in mind.)
    I too am trying to understand this entirely as it affects both my boyfriend and myself. Dr. Chris Masterjohn explains a lot about it on his blog and educational series, a good place to start researching IMO.

    I just came across these studies as well, I referenced on this post...
    Methanogen Bacteria Responsible For Risk Of CVD Assoc. PC (choline, TMAO)

    Mitolipin is not a prob though; per Haidut..."However, the studies with PC (and especially saturated PC) did not show any cholinergic effects".

    (Apologies mods...I hope I didn't derail this thread!)
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, I would take that topically in this dose as well but would split it into 2-3 daily doses to avoid spreading large amounts of oily substance on skin at once.
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The PC in MitoLipin should get absorbed before reaching the colon. Same with topical absorption - not much effect on colon bacteria.
     
  13. Gaga

    Gaga Member

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    @haidut
    Can it be applied with K2 at the same time?(different body parts)
     
  14. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    @Gaga I am not Haidut but I apply it together at times and it only helps my temps!
     
  15. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Muscular, consider including this response in the description somehow..
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Done, thanks for pointing it out.
     
  17. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    In the beginning of its use, I used Mito for liver health. That and K2 changed the game for me, about 8 or 9 months later. Now I like to use Mito as a counter supplement if I know I'm eating pufa heavy meals.
     
  18. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    What changes did you notice? Did you had any blood tests done for liver health before and after?
     
  19. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    It was the waking up sweating and constantly hungry thing that I had to address. I never turned to using thyroid and I've always been more cautious of things having a
    history of crohn's. I saw improvements with diet but I needed more direct action and so focused on liver health. Caffeine powder, Mitolipin, and K2 made the biggest differences.
    I was able to retain glycogen better, started sleeping through the night again. Even with the still occasional wake up, a small glass of milk and right back to bed I'd go. Mitolipin itself,
    was allowing me to sleep soundly when I would take it before bed. 10 drops orally was good enough. Many years ago before discovering these ideas, I swore off going to doctors, even for blood tests. So I haven't been doing any of that, I simply go on physical symptoms, effects, and the outcome of substances that possess a certain quality and function.
     
  20. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

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    i saw this quote on functionalps.com

    "“The crucial mitochondrial respiratory enzyme, cytochrome c oxidase, declines with aging (Paradies, et al., 1997), as the lipid cardiolipin declines, and the enzyme’s activity can be restored to the level of young animals by adding cardiolipin. The composition of cardiolipin changes with aging, “specifically an increase in highly unsaturated fatty acids” (Lee, et al., 2006). Other lipids, such as a phosphatidylcholine containing two myristic acid groups, can support the enzyme’s activity (Hoch, 1992). Even supplementing old animals with hydrogenated peanut oil restores mitochondrial respiration to about 80% of normal (Bronnikov, et al., 2010).”

    why would hydrogenated Peanut oil help?? i thought it was a PUFA....
     
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