Jordan Peterson is finally coming around (to Christ)

[boris]

No, what you say is not implied, it's what he directly says. An implicication can be there without the person intending it.

If "naturally" the most talented people would rise to "the top" then why is Ray Peat being actively supressed? People rise to the top when the people who decide who is at the top want it. "The top" as in prizes and acholades and prestige, is awarded through institutions that the ruling elites own. When he says that hierarchies of comptence should be desired and promoted, that implies that a doctor with a degree from harvard will be more right about something regarding health than a school teacher. That's authoritarianism. What is the doctors "competence" worth if it comes from following a dogma that is guided by industry interests and harmful to the patient?

Ruling elites care about "life is suffering", if people truly believe life is suffering, then the people have no reason to investigate their feeling, and get to the bottom of what is really causing it. There is a big interest to normalize sickness and mental illness, it has gone so far that people think depression is a normal thing that has nothing to do with your physical state.

I am not saying he wants to keep things as they are. I am saying that his message carries convenient implications with it for the people who want to keep things as they are (stay in power).

 

[nomoreketones]

If "naturally" the most talented people would rise to "the top" then why is Ray Peat being actively supressed? People rise to the top when the people who decide who is at the top want it. "The top" as in prizes and acholades and prestige, is awarded through institutions that the ruling elites own.

I would refer to this as corruption and this is not what Jordan Peterson advocates.

When he says that hierarchies of comptence should be desired and promoted, that implies that a doctor with a degree from harvard will be more right about something regarding health than a school teacher.

I think this implies that on average a doctor with a degree from Harvard would be less qualified than a person with a Teacher Certificate to teach in an elementary school. It also implies that on average a person with a Teacher Certificate would not be the best choice as a personal physician. Of course there can might be a rare Teacher Certificate holder who would make an excellent doctor and there could be an MD from Harvard who might be an excellent elementary school teacher. No system is perfect.

Of course the entire medical system we have has been corrupted by money and politics. So I might be more inclined to listen to health advice from a school teacher than a medical doctor. But this really has nothing to do with the organization of society. It is my personal choice who to listen to and Jordan Peterson has never spoken out against free will.

 

[boris]

I would refer to this as corruption and this is not what Jordan Peterson advocates.

I don't doubt that he is good willed.

"We might instead note with gratitude that a complex, sophisticated culture allows for many games and many successful players, and that a well-structured culture allows the individuals that compose it to play and to win, in many different fashions.” ....It's a nice thought, but our culture clearly isn't well-structured in that way. Because if it was, than Ray Peat would be teaching at Harvard, or speaking at health food stores, or not have his school destroyed by the CIA.
When he says these things and things like this: “ "nature" is "what selects", and the longer a feature has existed the more time it has had to be selected—and to shape life. It does not matter whether that feature is physical and biological, or social and cultural.", he supports not only the ruling elites view of themselves as superior beings, but also conveys to his followers that the current systems are something that "naturally" formed and aren't corrupted. Unsuspecting people who adopt JPs words will think that our culture is great, and the people at the top of our culture, are only there because they are the best, and not because they lie and manipulate or because their message is useful to a certain group of people.

 

[nomoreketones]

I don't doubt that he is good willed.

"We might instead note with gratitude that a complex, sophisticated culture allows for many games and many successful players, and that a well-structured culture allows the individuals that compose it to play and to win, in many different fashions.” ....It's a nice thought, but our culture clearly isn't well-structured in that way. Because if it was, than Ray Peat would be teaching at Harvard, or speaking at health food stores, or not have his school destroyed by the CIA.

I interpret these words to mean that we live in a society of opportunity that provides many paths to prosperity. I don't think this implies in any way that there is not corruption in western society.

When he says these things and things like this: “ "nature" is "what selects", and the longer a feature has existed the more time it has had to be selected—and to shape life. It does not matter whether that feature is physical and biological, or social and cultural.",

I think he is just talking about natural selection here. I personally believes natural selection shapes the world sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

but also conveys to his followers that the current systems are something that "naturally" formed and aren't corrupted. Unsuspecting people who adopt JPs words will think that our culture is great, and the people at the top of our culture, are only there because they are the best, and not because they lie and manipulate or because their message is useful to a certain group of people.

Regarding the belief that one's culture is great, isn't this how it is for all cultures? Doesn't almost everyone believe their own culture is great? In anthropology, this is called "ethnocentrism".

 

[orangeUglad]

Return to God is the final redpill.

100% ?

 

[Soren]

These specific quotes don't seem to have anything to do with policy except for his warnings against Communism when he speaks of absolute equality. I perceive his message as a warning against removing free markets and allowing a totalitarian government to enforce equal amounts of resources for all. I know from other lectures that Jordan Peterson believes that a communist system will always lead to a tyrannical government.

Jordan Peterson has spoken extensively on equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. He strongly believes in equality of opportunity. He strongly opposes government enforced equality of outcome.

In our society in the last year or two the language of this discussion has changed. Now people often use the word "equality" to mean equality of opportunity and the word "equity" to mean equality of outcome or what Jordan Peterson described as "absolute equality" in his quote you quoted.

Well said.

 

[Pistachio]

not buying it

Neither do I. Peterson is one of the biggest gatekeepers out there. He's about as trustworthy as a three-dollar bill.

 

[Pistachio]

Because he refused to answer this question?

What's more:




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXYuqrO8LLo

 

[Pistachio]

I like JP. I will never understand the hate. The guy is far from perfect, and that's fine. The message is what's important, and that message spoke to tons of people on a deep level, and got those people to realize they have control over their own lives.

Leftists hate JP for one reason while authentic conservatives hate JP for another reason. Don't conflate the two.

 

[Pistachio]

Jordan Peterson is not perfect (duh no one is) but he has done a lot more good than harm.

Putting aside his life advice (which is very good for the most part in my opinion). Even his high profile disaster with BENZOs and anti-depressants is probably one of the best things to ever happen in the fight back against these dangerous drugs. The fact he is so high profile and so openly questions these drugs now is probably the most scrutiny these drugs have had in the west ever. Think how many people have chosen to NOT take these drugs after hearing what happened to him.

He's done more harm. He has led gullible millennials to a fraudulent version of conservatism and poisoned their minds against identifying with any form of nationalism or pride in their own culture. He can take his room cleaning and shove it.

The reason this is so bad is because it's difficult to unlearn things, especially when you learned it thinking you were breaking free from a tier of deception. How are you going to make these young men realize that they were "liberated" from one layer of deception to yet another?

 

[AndrogenicJB]

He's done more harm. He has led gullible millennials to a fraudulent version of conservatism and poisoned their minds against identifying with any form of nationalism or pride in their own culture. He can take his room cleaning and shove it.

The reason this is so bad is because it's difficult to unlearn things, especially when you learned it thinking you were breaking free from a tier of deception. How are you going to make these young men realize that they were "liberated" from one layer of deception to yet another?

Post-modernist leftist I assume

 

[Soren]

What's more:




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXYuqrO8LLo

What a pile of total an utter shite. You think he is "anti-white"?! What does that even mean? He hates white people?

He's very individualist in his thinking which is the exact opposite of a globalist.

The mainstream media has tried to shut him down and destroy him countless times and still do. What you think that is some grand conspiracy double bluff? The controlled opposition?

This is the problem with assuming that everything is a conspiracy theory it is just as deranged as those who believe that there is never any conspiracy. Our brains are hardwired to recognize patterns so it is easy to extrapolate virtually any data into some grand intricate conspiracy. So you end up with utter garbage like this.

Ever heard of Ramsay theory?

 

[boris]

Do you think the globalists would pay him to speak at their little parties if he wasn't of use for them?

And Jordan Peterson is as mainstream as it gets. Searching for his name on google will give you over 60 million results. Same as Edward Norton or other Hollywood stars.

 

[Soren]

Do you think the globalists would pay him to speak at their little parties if he wasn't of use for them?

And Jordan Peterson is as mainstream as it gets. Searching for his name on google will give you over 60 million results. Same as Edward Norton or other Hollywood stars.

Speaking at an event is not an endorsement of everything the event stands for or is trying to push. Trump spoke at the World Economic Forum and everyone there hated him and he was trying to push a different agenda to their globalist one.

This is guilt by association.

 

[boris]

Well, I don't say he endorses them. My point is just that what he talks about is of use to them in one way or the other.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Peterson once said that guys should wash their penises. Everyone knows that if your smegmated penis stinks it's someone else's fault.

Sweet serrotonergic lobster, laughed so hard I may have torn my map of meaning

 

[Missenger]

He's done more harm. He has led gullible millennials to a fraudulent version of conservatism and poisoned their minds against identifying with any form of nationalism or pride in their own culture. He can take his room cleaning and shove it.

The reason this is so bad is because it's difficult to unlearn things, especially when you learned it thinking you were breaking free from a tier of deception. How are you going to make these young men realize that they were "liberated" from one layer of deception to yet another?

From cuckservatism to another flavor of cuckservatim, it's all cultist bull**** even when it doesn't look like it, it hurts to look at it.

 

[Pistachio]

What a pile of total an utter shite. You think he is "anti-white"?! What does that even mean? He hates white people?

He's very individualist in his thinking which is the exact opposite of a globalist.

The mainstream media has tried to shut him down and destroy him countless times and still do. What you think that is some grand conspiracy double bluff? The controlled opposition?

This is the problem with assuming that everything is a conspiracy theory it is just as deranged as those who believe that there is never any conspiracy. Our brains are hardwired to recognize patterns so it is easy to extrapolate virtually any data into some grand intricate conspiracy. So you end up with utter garbage like this.

Ever heard of Ramsay theory?

If you think controlled opposition is just conspiracy theory gone crazy, you simply don't understand the enemy's tactics and will continue to get duped by hucksters and intelligence operations.

 

[Pistachio]

Speaking at an event is not an endorsement of everything the event stands for or is trying to push. Trump spoke at the World Economic Forum and everyone there hated him and he was trying to push a different agenda to their globalist one.

This is guilt by association.

You talk about fallacies yet engage in your own.

Just because someone is perceived at hated it does not make them right, it's called the Galileo effect. Neither Trump nor Jordan Peterson can be considered legitimately anti-globalist simply because they are hated by some. They have to demonstrate that they are anti-globalist in a tangible way, not just be perceived that way. Both fail to demonstrate this.

“The Galileo gambit (also Galileo fallacy) is a logical fallacy that asserts that if your ideas provoke the establishment to vilify or threaten you, you must be right. Users of the fallacy are to be understood as being essentially ‘Galileo wannabes’.”

Your line of reasoning is also related to the fallacy Argumentum ad martyrdom.

 

[Soren]

If you think controlled opposition is just conspiracy theory gone crazy, you simply don't understand the enemy's tactics and will continue to get duped by hucksters and intelligence operations.

I'm not saying that there is not controlled opposition (although it is much more rare than some conspiracy theorists think) I think for the most part it looks like controlled opposition because the political elites all basically believe the same thing and there are minute differences between them and they falsely project that they are different to maintain power. .

But the idea that Jordan Peterson is controlled opposition is hilarious and the argument that I "don't understand the enemy's tactics" is equally funny. So what do you think happened Jordan Peterson gets contacted by "the enemy" and they say to him, "look start pretending that you're against suppression of free speech so we can dupe a bunch of people into believing that freedom of speech and individual responsibility and independence are good things". Because getting people to be independent, free thinkers who do not need or want government help or control that is what the globalists really want right.

By the way I'll say again, Jordan Peterson got and still gets a lot of stuff wrong, he used to be very much in the "take your pills" serotonin is good crowd he has now done 180 degrees on that and is a massive vocal critic of that viewpoint. The fact that he was once so pro psychiatric drugs and now is much more skeptical and in many ways anti them, well call me crazy but I don't think it is some intricate ploy to get people to take more meds by telling people that they are bad and almost killed him.

His daughter had on her podcast a few days ago someone who believes that the SSRIs and psychotic drugs that are pushed on people are totally useless and do nothing but harm. Is that controlled opposition? I'm sure what the big pharma and globalists really want is people with high profiles trashing their medicines. Is this somehow a double bluff to trick us into taking a different SSRI that they have in the pipeline? Obviously not but to the one who sees everything as a conspiracy theorist there is no argument one can make to change their mind it is no different than the religious fanatic.