Is hairloss mainly a growth hormone issue?

[GorillaHead]

Lately I have been thinking about how babies have reverse mpb and it got me thinking if there is one hormone 2-3 times higher in a baby than an adult its HGH.

Diseases with HGH like larron syndrome have children with mpb. Lack of crown hair etc.

Then i saw this study about minoxidil.

Pseudoacromegaly induced by the long-term use of minoxidil - PubMed

Acromegaly is an endocrine disorder caused by chronic excessive growth hormone secretion from the anterior pituitary gland. Significant disfiguring changes occur as a result of bone, cartilage, and soft tissue hypertrophy, including the thickening of the skin, coarsening of facial features, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Perhaps the growth hormone receptor is downregulated or dysregulated somehow. The sensitivty to growth hormone decreases and the hair shrinks. This could be caused by an inflammatory issue.

Studies show balding follicles have less growth hormone.

minoxidil seem to be a growth hormone agonist of some sort. Instead of a growth hormone agonist. Maybe our best bet is a substance that increases growth hormone sensitivity topically.

 

[rei]

Perhaps the growth hormone receptor is downregulated or dysregulated somehow. The sensitivty to growth hormone decreases and the hair shrinks. This could be caused by an inflammatory issue.

This is exactly as i have been speaking here for a long time. Fascial tension leads to circulatory issues in the skin, compensatory fibrotic changes etc. that prevent nutrient transport to hair follicles. DHT and others increase the activity of hair follicles and change their morphology. When you combine these both, then the only available outcome is apoptosis as the reduced supply and increased demand directly conflict.

Now, growth hormone might be just another piece in the puzzle working along similar lines as DHT and others. Although i would suspect more proximal, as DHT also has direct effect on fascial tension, and i have not heard about such with GH.

>minoxidil seem to be a growth hormone agonist of some sort. Instead of a growth hormone agonist.

eh, what?

>Maybe our best bet is a substance that increases growth hormone sensitivity topically.

no, that would result in faster shedding. Your best bet is to fix the issue that causes reduced circulation to the skin. Not massage, not derma rolling, not nizoral or anything directly there. Where you fix it is in the postural damage that is causing the fascial tension that tensions the skin and reduces supply. After that everything automatically fixes itself with time, and at that point you can use numerous methods to increase the speed of healing.

 

[GorillaHead]

This is exactly as i have been speaking here for a long time. Fascial tension leads to circulatory issues in the skin, compensatory fibrotic changes etc. that prevent nutrient transport to hair follicles. DHT and others increase the activity of hair follicles and change their morphology. When you combine these both, then the only available outcome is apoptosis as the reduced supply and increased demand directly conflict.

Now, growth hormone might be just another piece in the puzzle working along similar lines as DHT and others. Although i would suspect more proximal, as DHT also has direct effect on fascial tension, and i have not heard about such with GH.

>minoxidil seem to be a growth hormone agonist of some sort. Instead of a growth hormone agonist.

eh, what?

>Maybe our best bet is a substance that increases growth hormone sensitivity topically.

no, that would result in faster shedding. Your best bet is to fix the issue that causes reduced circulation to the skin. Not massage, not derma rolling, not nizoral or anything directly there. Where you fix it is in the postural damage that is causing the fascial tension that tensions the skin and reduces supply. After that everything automatically fixes itself with time, and at that point you can use numerous methods to increase the speed of healing.

Did u not see the study i posted. Minoxidil induced acromegaly. I didnt just find this. I theorized minoxidil had an affect on gh and while it is one study and one case it seems like minoxiidl could do seriousl agonize the growth hormone or igf-1 directly

Postural issues is big maybe for me. Only cause I dont think blood flow is the cause. Its a transient effect. Every vasodilator should show hair growth improvement if blood flow was at the root of this second to posture dont you think?

 

[Dr. B]

This is exactly as i have been speaking here for a long time. Fascial tension leads to circulatory issues in the skin, compensatory fibrotic changes etc. that prevent nutrient transport to hair follicles. DHT and others increase the activity of hair follicles and change their morphology. When you combine these both, then the only available outcome is apoptosis as the reduced supply and increased demand directly conflict.

Now, growth hormone might be just another piece in the puzzle working along similar lines as DHT and others. Although i would suspect more proximal, as DHT also has direct effect on fascial tension, and i have not heard about such with GH.

>minoxidil seem to be a growth hormone agonist of some sort. Instead of a growth hormone agonist.

eh, what?

>Maybe our best bet is a substance that increases growth hormone sensitivity topically.

no, that would result in faster shedding. Your best bet is to fix the issue that causes reduced circulation to the skin. Not massage, not derma rolling, not nizoral or anything directly there. Where you fix it is in the postural damage that is causing the fascial tension that tensions the skin and reduces supply. After that everything automatically fixes itself with time, and at that point you can use numerous methods to increase the speed of healing.

but it cannot simply be fibrotic/structural changes causing this hair loss, maybe with very long term hypothyrodiism/high cortisol these fibrotic changes occur, but for example if you use iodine or something that quickly makes you hypothyroid, the hair loss/thinning starts immediately, far before any structural changes can occur. the simple change in hormonal profile like too little thyroid hormone, too much estrogen/cortisol/dht can cause the hair loss instantly!

 

[Jam]

if you use iodine or something that quickly makes you hypothyroid

Bollox, indeed. The Wolff-Chaikoff effect has been proven to be complete garbage.

 

[Dr. B]

Bollox, indeed. The Wolff-Chaikoff effect has been proven to be complete garbage.

its not true, ive verified it, just using 3 milligrams potassium iodide, once a week, was enough to start severe hypothyroidism after a few weeks. Ray actually said even consuming 500mcg daily, long term can cause thyroid issues and damage to the gland. you have to be careful especially if eating out, many restaurants use iodized salt, non organic dairy and egg products often have higher iodine levels due to iodine added to their feeds or iodine based cleaners used on the animals or processing plants, bottles etc.

 

[Jam]

It may be true FOR YOU. I (and many many others, including Albert Szent-Györgyi) suffer no such consequences from taking doses orders of magnitude greater than yours. I have been taking 150mg - 1gram of KI daily for years.

 

[rei]

Did u not see the study i posted. Minoxidil induced acromegaly. I didnt just find this. I theorized minoxidil had an affect on gh and while it is one study and one case it seems like minoxiidl could do seriousl agonize the growth hormone or igf-1 directly

Postural issues is big maybe for me. Only cause I dont think blood flow is the cause. Its a transient effect. Every vasodilator should show hair growth improvement if blood flow was at the root of this second to posture dont you think?

How does that relate to my comment?

Minoxidil treats MPB by increasing flow. Artificially increasing flow allows GH to cause effects where it should not = acromegaly. Without increased flow there would be downregulation, insensitivity.

Every vasodilator works the same in this regard, but all of them have differing secondary effects, making some work more than others for hairloss.

 

[Dr. B]

It may be true FOR YOU. I (and many many others, including Albert Szent-Györgyi) suffer no such consequences from taking doses orders of magnitude greater than yours. I have been taking 150mg - 1gram of KI daily for years.

what product are you using for the KI? do you have a full head of hair, whats your overall health status as far as metabolism, weight, body fat % etc? I think Ray mentioned Gyorgyis comments on iodine are widely misrepresented online. Theres many people on youtube and other forums whom have complained of iodine triggering hashimotos... I think Brownstein and other proponents have claimed that iodine causes those effects due to displacing fluorine/bromine/etc from the body...
do you generally stay fluoride/chlorine/bromine free and how long have you stayed away from fluoridated water/chlorinated water and bromine for instance?
But yeah it seems im not the only one, maybe people who do better on iodine are healthier/have stayed away from fluoridated water for a longer time.
Also regardless it is odd to implement a vitamin/mineral supplement of any kind, especially megadoses of any single nutrient not found in nature. Vitamin D3 can be exceptional since even the cholecalciferol supplements are apparently UV treated sheeps cholesterol. But other than that, I havent seen a single nutrient, even water soluble nutrients like vitamin C/b vitamins, which dont cause imbalances in the body and other side effects when used in huge doses, or even lower doses but longer term.

 

[S-VV]

Does this mean I will get those sweet Tony Robbins acromegaly gains thanks to minoxidil? Noice!

 

[Dr. B]

How does that relate to my comment?

Minoxidil treats MPB by increasing flow. Artificially increasing flow allows GH to cause effects where it should not = acromegaly. Without increased flow there would be downregulation, insensitivity.

Every vasodilator works the same in this regard, but all of them have differing secondary effects, making some work more than others for hairloss.

doesnt it increase nitric oxide. Is minoxidil just topical or also oral? do you think its worth taking topically, id imagine there wouldnt be serious side effects if taken topically?

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Can’t comment on growth hormone, but growth factors in the scalp certainly do play a role. E.g - microneedling, minoxidil, etc.

 

[Jam]

what product are you using for the KI? do you have a full head of hair, whats your overall health status as far as metabolism, weight, body fat % etc? I think Ray mentioned Gyorgyis comments on iodine are widely misrepresented online. Theres many people on youtube and other forums whom have complained of iodine triggering hashimotos... I think Brownstein and other proponents have claimed that iodine causes those effects due to displacing fluorine/bromine/etc from the body...
do you generally stay fluoride/chlorine/bromine free and how long have you stayed away from fluoridated water/chlorinated water and bromine for instance?
But yeah it seems im not the only one, maybe people who do better on iodine are healthier/have stayed away from fluoridated water for a longer time.
Also regardless it is odd to implement a vitamin/mineral supplement of any kind, especially megadoses of any single nutrient not found in nature. Vitamin D3 can be exceptional since even the cholecalciferol supplements are apparently UV treated sheeps cholesterol. But other than that, I havent seen a single nutrient, even water soluble nutrients like vitamin C/b vitamins, which dont cause imbalances in the body and other side effects when used in huge doses, or even lower doses but longer term.

Look, you're free to think what you like about iodine, but please don't spread misinformation in such an offhand way.

I make my own SSKI with KI and distilled water.

 

[Jam]

ps., for info on what Peat has written about iodide, please read The transparency of life: Cataracts as a model of age-related disease

One of the best-known free radical scavenging substances that has been widely used as a drug is iodide. It has been used to treat asthma, parasites, syphilis, cancer, Graves’ disease, periodontal disease, and arteriosclerosis. Diseases that produce tissue overgrowth associated with inflammation--granulomas--have been treated with iodides, and although the iodide doesn’t necessarily kill the germ, it does help to break down and remove the granuloma. Leprosy and syphilis were among the diseases involving granulomas* that were treated in this way. In the case of tuberculosis, it has been suggested that iodides combine with unsaturated fatty acids which inhibit proteolytic enzymes, and thus allow for the removal of the abnormal tissue.

In experimental animals, iodide clearly delays the appearance of cataracts. (Buchberger, et al., 199l.)

Inflammation, edema, and free radical production are closely linked, and are produced by most things that interfere with energy production.

Endotoxin, produced by bacteria, mainly in the intestine, disrupts energy production, and promotes maladaptive inflammation. The wide spectrum of benefit that iodide has, especially in diseases with an inflammatory component, suggests first that it protects tissue by blocking free radical damage, but it also suggests the possibility that it might specifically protect against endotoxin.​

​

 

[rei]

doesnt it increase nitric oxide. Is minoxidil just topical or also oral? do you think its worth taking topically, id imagine there wouldnt be serious side effects if taken topically?

I think all methods to treat MPB or hairloss in general at the site are flawed, as it is a secondary effect of postural damage resulting in chronic fascial tension, decreasing the flow, and increasing direct tension stimuli to the area which activates stress response locally. You can get the full picture of this tension->stress cascade from www.stressmechanism.com it explains most chronic disease all the way to cancer. Or just directly from this diagram Mammalian Stress Mechanism Diagram

German New Medicine is in some aspects on this same path, but i have not studied it enough to say if it is legit or mostly handwaving.

 

[Dr. B]

Look, you're free to think what you like about iodine, but please don't spread misinformation in such an offhand way.

I make my own SSKI with KI and distilled water.

Its the complete opposite...
Again, if you want to share your stats and answer my questions feel free to do so.
Its the contrary. Ray Peat himself, you can email him today and he will tell you about the risks of iodine. In fact he will literally provide like 60 references in his email about the risks of iodine and iodide and the problems with iodized salt and its effects in the 1900s. I am actually sharing what happened to me with iodine as well as what happened to others, as well what Peat has said on it... and Peat doesn't advise supplementing it at all neither does Haidut on here. You are the one spreading misinformation and advice which for the vast majority of people is going to be very harmful. I mean, I guess you can say its subjective whether you or I am spreading misinformation on iodine, but at the least, your belief of using grams of KI per day is completely opposite to Peats advice.

I don't know if you don't want to share details on your metabolism but I will say if you are experiencing issues like a slow metabolism, hair loss, hypothyroid symptoms etc, the huge doses of iodine you're using would be to blame. Ray has been very critical of the internet with regards to supplements and things like iodine, and he is right. I too was extremely mislead by people posting on the internet about iodine. I tried it, used the "necessary cofactors" like selenium, alongside it, and it still caused severe hypothyroidism symptoms. I think people need to carefully consider supplementing any nutrients, especially megadosing any single nutrient, even vitamin C, b vitamins etc.
You are taking Rays words extremely out of context. Ray has numerous podcasts where he's discussed iodine with Danny, and several other youtubers where he has clearly said he doesnt recommend supplementing it, and that he thinks ALL iodine sources from diet/supplements combined shouldn't exceed even twice the RDA, which would mean 300mcg potassium iodide. Ray might say something is good or beneficial but that certainly doesn't mean he advises supplementing it. And who knows, maybe his opinion on Iodide/Iodine is they are fine to megadose if youre already in a cancer/severe disease state.

I will also add I have seen numerous people on online forums who have severe hypothyroid symptoms like hair loss, weight gain, no energy and more, and they keep continuing to megadose iodine under the belief that their effects from it are temporary detox effects and that they will eventually heal and cure the hypothyroidism and get all these benefits from it.

 

[Dr. B]

ps., for info on what Peat has written about iodide, please read The transparency of life: Cataracts as a model of age-related disease

​

I am also curious how long have you stayed away from tap water/fluoride/chlorine/bromine? Maybe that plays a role in how the body reacts to iodine. What is your overall metabolism like as far as heart rate, temperatures, energy levels, body fat %, hair loss etc

 

[Jam]

I will disregard your previous post as it is a bit too condescending and argumentative for my tastes. For info, I view iodide, specifically, as a medicine, not a nutritional supplement.

I am also curious how long have you stayed away from tap water/fluoride/chlorine/bromine? Maybe that plays a role in how the body reacts to iodine. What is your overall metabolism like as far as heart rate, temperatures, energy levels, body fat %, hair loss etc

My metabolism is just fine, thank you. All markers are pretty much ideal.

I started balding 20 years ago, well before I started medicating with iodide. If anything, the hair loss stopped once I halted the progression of the periodontal disease I have suffered from since the hair loss began all those years ago.

If you read Ray's article I posted above, you will probably understand why and how iodide works for such conditions. You may also want to search my post history, I have gone over this numerous times in the past. In short, iodide is beneficial with any chronic infection, mitigating host tissue destruction by hypochlorous acid, as iodide, when enough is present in the body, substitutes for chloride in the hypohalous acids produced by MPO (myeloperoxidase) to fight infections. What does this mean, in practice? In the case of periodontal disease, for example, it means that you stop losing teeth.

FWIW, where I live, the water is not flouridated, and I stopped drinking tap water a decade ago. I have never had a single negative effect, including "detox", from iodide.

 

[mariantos]

but for example if you use iodine or something that quickly makes you hypothyroid, the hair loss/thinning starts immediately, far before any structural changes can occur.

It is strange that in my case immediately after the first doses, which were 6.25 mg on the first day ie a drop of lugol's 5%, 3 drops the next day, but also the next other days, the hair stopped sticking to the palms when I pass with my hand through it.
Extremely effective, formidable element iodine, in many ways, I go on the third week since I supplement, now I am at 6-7 drops a day. Its effects are fascinating and it seems to work gradually. Finally I am warm, I think clearly, eczema no longer occurs when I eat any type of sugar, calm, sexual functions that seem to return to normal and much more.

 

[Jam]

ps., here are two links to get you started, if you wish:

Iodide modulates protein damage induced by the inflammation-associated heme enzyme myeloperoxidase

Iodide ions (I−) are an essential dietary mineral, and crucial for mental and physical development, fertility and thyroid function. I− is also a high …

www.sciencedirect.com

The Extrathyronine Actions of Iodine as Antioxidant, Apoptotic, and Differentiation Factor in Various Tissues

Seaweed is an important dietary component and a rich source of iodine in several chemical forms in Asian communities. Their high consumption of this element (25 times higher than in Western countries) has been associated with the low incidence of benign ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov