Oral Castor Oil experiment– bigger erections and stopping male pattern baldness? Surely too good to be true…

[rzero]

then maybe read these posts

Why DHT doesn’t cause hair loss - My response to Kevin Mann

Kevin Mann attacked me in one of his vids a while ago, saying that DHT is a trash hormone and that I don't know what I'm talking about. He clearly believes that DHT is harmful and that finasteride is awesome, despite a ton of scientific papers and anecdotes showing that DHT is very much needed...

raypeatforum.com

Topical DHT therapy promotes hair growth

Despite mentioning it in another post on testosterone (T) treatment for hair loss, I thought that this study deserves its own post, just because its findings are so contradictory to the perennial dogma of "androgenic alopecia" - i.e. that androgens, and especially DHT, cause the male-pattern...

raypeatforum.com

Man regrows hair with oral DHT, Anavar

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/oral-steroid-made-my-hair-grow-back-thicker.106598/ thoughts?

raypeatforum.com

For some reason you seem to think I think DHT promotes hair loss. I was skeptically questioning the person who said castor oil blocks DHT.

The only "evidence" I saw cited to argue it blocked DHT was that it regrew air. I agree with the sentiment that this is not evidence.

 

[Ismail]

Anyone in the UK or Europe, this seems like a good organic cold pressed castor oil:

Organic Castor Oil 250ml

Fushi Fresh-Pressed 100% pure food grade Castor contains essential unsaturated fatty acids to encourage stimulation for hair growth.

fushiwellbeing.com

I’m very tempted to give this a try too.

@ddjd you still experiencing the same benefits?

Anyone else managed to try this?

 

[Jamsey]

Just wanted to add that in the original study posted, up regulation of pge2 formation was not considered the mechanism of action. They believed that castor oil acts as an agonist on pge2 receptors, the ep3/ep4 receptors.

“Thus, PGE2, which may be formed in response to ricinoleic acid, is not sufficient to mediate the effects, and ricinoleic acid acting on EP3receptors is responsible for castor oil-induced laxative and labor-inducing effects.”

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1201627109

“Consistent with a role of EP3 and EP4 receptors in mediating cellular effects of ricinoleic acid, the selective antagonists of EP3 and EP4 recep- tors, L-798,106 and L-161,982, respectively, at maximally active concentrations inhibited ricinoleic acid- and PGE2-induced cal- cium mobilization in MEG-01 cells (Fig. 1D). EP3/EP4-mediated effects of ricinoleic acid were not because of formation of PGE2 in response to ricinoleic acid (Fig. S2 A and B). Consistent with this finding, ricinoleic acid effects were not affected by inhibition of cyclooxygenase (COX)-1 and COX-2 (Fig. S2C).”

 

[rzero]

Just wanted to add that in the original study posted, up regulation of pge2 formation was not considered the mechanism of action. They believed that castor oil acts as an agonist on pge2 receptors, the ep3/ep4 receptors.

“Thus, PGE2, which may be formed in response to ricinoleic acid, is not sufficient to mediate the effects, and ricinoleic acid acting on EP3receptors is responsible for castor oil-induced laxative and labor-inducing effects.”

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1201627109

“Consistent with a role of EP3 and EP4 receptors in mediating cellular effects of ricinoleic acid, the selective antagonists of EP3 and EP4 recep- tors, L-798,106 and L-161,982, respectively, at maximally active concentrations inhibited ricinoleic acid- and PGE2-induced cal- cium mobilization in MEG-01 cells (Fig. 1D). EP3/EP4-mediated effects of ricinoleic acid were not because of formation of PGE2 in response to ricinoleic acid (Fig. S2 A and B). Consistent with this finding, ricinoleic acid effects were not affected by inhibition of cyclooxygenase (COX)-1 and COX-2 (Fig. S2C).”

Right, but the only "effects" acknowledged in the paper are laxation and uterine contractions.

 

[Aad]

So, does it really have pro erection effects?

 

[Mauritio]

Just wanted to add that in the original study posted, up regulation of pge2 formation was not considered the mechanism of action. They believed that castor oil acts as an agonist on pge2 receptors, the ep3/ep4 receptors.

“Thus, PGE2, which may be formed in response to ricinoleic acid, is not sufficient to mediate the effects, and ricinoleic acid acting on EP3receptors is responsible for castor oil-induced laxative and labor-inducing effects.”

https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1201627109

“Consistent with a role of EP3 and EP4 receptors in mediating cellular effects of ricinoleic acid, the selective antagonists of EP3 and EP4 recep- tors, L-798,106 and L-161,982, respectively, at maximally active concentrations inhibited ricinoleic acid- and PGE2-induced cal- cium mobilization in MEG-01 cells (Fig. 1D). EP3/EP4-mediated effects of ricinoleic acid were not because of formation of PGE2 in response to ricinoleic acid (Fig. S2 A and B). Consistent with this finding, ricinoleic acid effects were not affected by inhibition of cyclooxygenase (COX)-1 and COX-2 (Fig. S2C).”

I saw that study too and found it interesting. So are they suggesting that castor oils effects are NOT reliant on producing PGE2, but activating PGE3-EP3 receptor? It might sound like a trivial difference, but it that the MoA is different than we thought.

Travis had some interesting posts in this thread that also deals with hair loss and castor oil. (Aspirin With Castor Oil For Hair Loss)
Castor oil might even lower total prostaglandin snythesis be competing with COX.

So you lower total prostaglandins by competition and still infuse the system with something that acts like the one prostaglandin that you want (PGE2). Maybe that is good way of phrasing castor oils effect and a good further working hypothesis.

"Any long unsaturated fatty acid appears to inhibit cyclooxygenase by competition (but they don't bind strongly like aspirin and indomethacin do)."

 

[rzero]

I saw that study too and found it interesting. So are they suggesting that castor oils effects are NOT reliant on producing PGE2, but activating PGE3-EP3 receptor? It might sound like a trivial difference, but it that the MoA is different than we thought.

Travis had some interesting posts in this thread that also deals with hair loss and castor oil. (Aspirin With Castor Oil For Hair Loss)
Castor oil might even lower total prostaglandin snythesis be competing with COX.

So you lower total prostaglandins by competition and still infuse the system with something that acts like the one prostaglandin that you want (PGE2). Maybe that is good way of phrasing castor oils effect and a good further working hypothesis.

"Any long unsaturated fatty acid appears to inhibit cyclooxygenase by competition (but they don't bind strongly like aspirin and indomethacin do)."

The paper is only narrowly looking for what might cause induction of laxation and uterine contractions. Conventional medicine officially discounts all effects of castor oil other than as a laxative. The authors are already going outside the lines suggesting it may actually induce labor as folk medicine has maintained for centuries.

Whether up-regulation of PGE2 may be responsible for androgenic effects or other longer-term systemic effects isn't within the scope of the paper.

The PGE2 and castor oil hypothesis is very interesting and I wasn't aware how related to androgens the prostaglandins are. I'd also like to learn more about what other supplements or drugs may work on the prostaglandins and androgens like this.

 

[Mauritio]

So PGE-EP3 activation seems to have mixed effects:

1. antinociceptive
- Neuronal prostaglandin E2 receptor subtype EP3 mediates antinociception during inflammation - PubMed

2. Increases tumor growth in vitro
- PGE2/EP3/SRC signaling induces EGFR nuclear translocation and growth through EGFR ligands release in lung adenocarcinoma cells - PubMed

3. contributes to diabetic polyuria
- PGE2 receptor EP3 inhibits water reabsorption and contributes to polyuria and kidney injury in a streptozotocin-induced mouse model of diabetes - PubMed

4. Mice lacking EP3 receptor have abnormal fat distribution, and gained more weight
- The PGE2 EP3 Receptor Regulates Diet-Induced Adiposity in Male Mice - PubMed

5. Ep3 blockade may be beneficial for diabetes
- Pharmacological blockade of the EP3 prostaglandin E2 receptor in the setting of type 2 diabetes enhances β-cell proliferation and identity and relieves oxidative damage - PubMed

6. EP3 causes weight loss through "browning" of the fatty tissue
- PGE2 -EP3 axis promotes brown adipose tissue formation through stabilization of WTAP RNA methyltransferase - PubMed

7. Overexpression of EP3 reduces cardiac function
- Deleterious effects of cardiomyocyte-specific prostaglandin E2 EP3 receptor overexpression on cardiac function after myocardial infarction - PubMed

8. EP3 signaling exacerbates hippocampus-dependent cognitive impairment
- PGE2-EP3 signaling exacerbates hippocampus-dependent cognitive impairment after laparotomy by reducing expression levels of hippocampal synaptic plasticity-related proteins in aged mice - PubMed

9. EP3 signaling induces inflammatory swelling by mast cell activation
- Prostaglandin E2-EP3 signaling induces inflammatory swelling by mast cell activation - PubMed

Disclaimer: To look at castor oil only as PGE-EP3 activation is a bit reductionistic, that's why I would regard these studies one level below those looking at castor oils effect as a whole. And the study looking at castor oil seem to paint a more positive picture, maybe because they have some flavonoids like rutin.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

adding turpentine to the oral dose may have some benefits.... just found some info going through diff forum pages

DONT take turpentine ORALLY for any reason Ever. Very toxic.

 

[Ras]

DONT take turpentine ORALLY for any reason Ever. Very toxic.

Countless people have been doing this very thing for more than a century.

 

[Osukhan]

Countless people have been doing this very thing for more than a century.

i have not tried it to be honest, but yes i agree many have taken it and have reported benefits
@Pablo Cruise can you explain some of the issues you've seen or what to look out for?

 

[Aad]

Does anyone else experience improved erections

 

[sphenoid]

Topical application to the male member results in enhanced, almost painful, erections. Similar to when taking a low-moderate dose of a PDE5 inhibitor.

 

[Sumbody]

Topical application to the male member results in enhanced, almost painful, erections. Similar to when taking a low-moderate dose of a PDE5 inhibitor.

That falls in line with other accounts.

One thing to note is there is a topical analgesic effect of castor oil that some claim to help with PE, as it supposedly can decrease sensitivity a little bit. But that can also be an effect of PDE5 inhibitors as well.

I had the thought that prolonged topical use however could have a negative effect on sensitivity, but it's likely only transient and with active use.

Perhaps it's use could have the opposite effect over time, actually increasing sensitivity, which would be helpful to those who suffer from that issue. But that is just conjecture.

 

[sphenoid]

That falls in line with other accounts.

One thing to note is there is a topical analgesic effect of castor oil that some claim to help with PE, as it supposedly can decrease sensitivity a little bit. But that can also be an effect of PDE5 inhibitors as well.

I had the thought that prolonged topical use however could have a negative effect on sensitivity, but it's likely only transient and with active use.

Perhaps it's use could have the opposite effect over time, actually increasing sensitivity, which would be helpful to those who suffer from that issue. But that is just conjecture.

I haven't noticed any changes to sensitivity so far, just substantial increases in blood flow. Nocturnal erections have become priapistic (no complaints) and even when flaccid there is a sensation of pressure.

 

[Mauritio]

I haven't noticed any changes to sensitivity so far, just substantial increases in blood flow. Nocturnal erections have become priapistic (no complaints) and even when flaccid there is a sensation of pressure.

Wow that sounds kind of wild.
I can say that taken orally, my erections have actually become worse, which is in line with what DHT and androsterone do for me. I suppose I am already on the low estrogen side and everything strongly anti-estrogenic sends me into too low E territory.

 

[sphenoid]

Wow that sounds kind of wild.
I can say that taken orally, my erections have actually become worse, which is in line with what DHT and androsterone do for me. I suppose I am already on the low estrogen side and everything strongly anti-estrogenic sends me into too low E territory.

I had some castor oil in my cupboard from a while back and tried it after reading this thread a few weeks ago. I haven't really been tinkering with anything else and definitely haven't been doing anything extra to lower estrogen so I think that's one of the reasons its been so noticeable. I'm probably going to have to stop soon because it seems to be getting sore.

Did you say that it stimulates its receptors instead of PGE2 directly? It seems like a safer alternative to the people who would inject PGE2 into the member directly, causing massive priapism.

 

[Mauritio]

I had some castor oil in my cupboard from a while back and tried it after reading this thread a few weeks ago. I haven't really been tinkering with anything else and definitely haven't been doing anything extra to lower estrogen so I think that's one of the reasons its been so noticeable. I'm probably going to have to stop soon because it seems to be getting sore.

Did you say that it stimulates its receptors instead of PGE2 directly? It seems like a safer alternative to the people who would inject PGE2 into the member directly, causing massive priapism.

Any signs of fibrosis or unusual tightening? That would be something I would look out for.

Yes AFAIK it activates one or two subunits of the PGE2 receptor namely EP3/4, so it does not seem to cause an increase in pGE2 synthesis , it might actually cause a lowering of inflammation by competing with COX-2. That should definitely be safer than injecting PGE2 directly.

 

[Wolf]

+1 to beard growth. This was actually able to trigger some vellus hair growth on my face on the patchy parts.
3-5 drops daily in my MCT laden coffee and every few days I mix an MCT/Castor Oil blend to apply topically. Slow titrating up the drops to assess where bowel tolerance begins, but won't go past 10 drops in any case.
Note that previous derma rolling, red light, etc etc only resulted in a passable amount of facial hair on the sides but still much much more than is common on both sides of my family which is none.
Thanks for the information!

 

[Mauritio]

+1 to beard growth. This was actually able to trigger some vellus hair growth on my face on the patchy parts.
3-5 drops daily in my MCT laden coffee and every few days I mix an MCT/Castor Oil blend to apply topically. Slow titrating up the drops to assess where bowel tolerance begins, but won't go past 10 drops in any case.
Note that previous derma rolling, red light, etc etc only resulted in a passable amount of facial hair on the sides but still much much more than is common on both sides of my family which is none.
Thanks for the information!

I also suspected that there are some new beard hairs. Hopefully it doesnt increase nose hairs lol