I Have Started And Stopped Starch Like 50 Times And The End Result Is Always The Same

[Lokzo]

Ep. 72 Interview Dr. Jason Hawrelak: The Last Microbiome Episode You Will Ever Need - Quax Podcast

I did a podcast with this Dr. Hawrelak too!

Super cool guy!

Episode 30: How Your Gut Bacteria Influences Your Biology - With Dr. Jason Hawrelak.

 

[TheBeard]

I used to have problems similar this. In my case I think it was caused by intestinal paralysis via putrefaction; If there is proliferation of putrefactive bacteria in the colon it becomes paralyzed, moisture in stool is then absorbed leading to constipation and small hard bms. Read the thread about Kellogg's milch regimen if you want to know more about this theory. It's no longer a problem after drinking enough milk / eating enough fruit to provide for adequate fermentation, but I've also cut way back on flesh and gelatin. I know Peat thinks *no* bacteria is optimal and I used to operate on that understanding, but after putting this theory into practice I've definitely turned a corner.

Emphasis should be put on a very important point:
Milk has to be drunk on its own, not with any solid food 12h before or 12h after, unless you want to expose yourself to great discomfort.

 

[SamuraiJack]

Personally I've been having quite the fatigue, lack of drive to workout, go for my goals and lessened libido (despite high T).
I happen to eat around 2 white potatoes a day and will give the no starch a try right away.

I have heard potatoes being problematic due to them being nightshades and containing solanin?
Do u find eating then with the skin more problematic than without?

I remember a few years back eating sweet potatoes in place of white.
Would u guys also avoid sweet potatoes altogether?
How do u all respond to sweet p's if u include them?

 

[reality]

Personally I've been having quite the fatigue, lack of drive to workout, go for my goals and lessened libido (despite high T).
I happen to eat around 2 white potatoes a day and will give the no starch a try right away.

I have heard potatoes being problematic due to them being nightshades and containing solanin?
Do u find eating then with the skin more problematic than without?

I remember a few years back eating sweet potatoes in place of white.
Would u guys also avoid sweet potatoes altogether?
How do u all respond to sweet p's if u include them?

most of the solanine is in the skin but I peel them, cut into thin pieces and boil them to death, yet they still give me issues.

Sweet potatoes are much better and I don’t have an issue with them, but the orange ones have a lot of b carotene which I’ve heard is problematic but I’m not sure. If you can get the white flesh sweet potatoes they are great

 

[SamuraiJack]

most of the solanine is in the skin but I peel them, cut into thin pieces and boil them to death, yet they still give me issues.

Sweet potatoes are much better and I don’t have an issue with them, but the orange ones have a lot of b carotene which I’ve heard is problematic but I’m not sure. If you can get the white flesh sweet potatoes they are great

Thanks. Will be adding white potatoes to my list of banned foods and start adding sweet potatoes in next week or so.

Seems like initially once healthy foods (grains, wheat, potatoes) are being tainted and slowly destructive to health.

 

[AdoTintor]

It could be as simple as the number of carbs. See if you can measure the amount of sweet potato that makes you warm, then crunch the numbers. Compare that to fruit that doesn't make you warm, and crunch the numbers. If it's something like 70g of carbs in sweet poatoes that you normally eat compared to 20g of carbs in fruit (quite possible), then it's like asking why is a $100 bill more valuable than a $20.

good point- I've had a look on back of packets for info on this. Normally I eat one sweet potato that is 200g and it says this has only 15g of carbs, 4g in fibre. A glass of orange juice(150ml) has 15g of carbs so it looks roughly equivalent for quantities I eat. Not sure why a 200g sweet potato is providing only 20g in carbs+protein+fat, it doesn't seem like a watermelon

 

[AdoTintor]

Complex carbs have a higher glycemic index than fruit and refined sugar. Starch promotes insulin secretion, fructose lowers it.

Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
“When the idea of “glycemic index” was being popularized by dietitians, it was already known that starch, consisting of chains of glucose molecules, had a much higher index than fructose and sucrose. The more rapid appearance of glucose in the blood stimulates more insulin, and insulin stimulates fat synthesis, when there is more glucose than can be oxidized immediately."

“Starch and glucose efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat production becomes much larger than when equal amounts of sugar and starch are eaten."


...

How are you eating the fruit vs the potatoes? The potato has more protein and I assume you eat them with some fat and salt? I think you will get a similar effect if you eat the fruit with some protein (salted meat/cheese/eggs/...) and some fat.

ok will try that - fruit plus protein and fat. It's definitely counter intuitive: the quickest way to raise blood sugar is to eat a sweet potato, rather than eat sugar itself.

 

[oldfriend]

Emphasis should be put on a very important point:
Milk has to be drunk on its own, not with any solid food 12h before or 12h after, unless you want to expose yourself to great discomfort.

Que?

 

[tankasnowgod]

good point- I've had a look on back of packets for info on this. Normally I eat one sweet potato that is 200g and it says this has only 15g of carbs, 4g in fibre. A glass of orange juice(150ml) has 15g of carbs so it looks roughly equivalent for quantities I eat. Not sure why a 200g sweet potato is providing only 20g in carbs+protein+fat, it doesn't seem like a watermelon

One other thing, guessing you eat sweet potatoes cooked? And orange juice right out of the fridge? Temperature of the food can be an issue too, especially if you are only eating 15g of carbohydrate at a time.

 

[shine]

I can't tolerate potatoes at all, but I eat huge quantities of white rice daily without any issues. White rice is amazing and especially jasmine rice is super easy to digest.

 

[SamuraiJack]

In my experience, I had a major Herxheimer response about 3 days after quitting starch. It was severe, would have gone to the ER but my boyfriend at the time said he it could be a 'healing crisis' and sure enough, I was better by morning and the stomach pain never came back until I attempted to reintroduce a small amount of starch (won't be doing that again). I have dealt with extreme and debilitating gut inflammation for most of my life though, and a bacterial overflowth infection that was unresponsive to antibiotics so I suppose I was an extreme case.
Basically, quitting starch was essential for me. I think for people like me it's easy to continue to keep it out of the diet because adding it back in would be so much more painful. Necessity sparks creativity and I've found lots of foods to replace the need for starch. Drawing upon my HCLF fat, I eat lots of over-ripe bananas and dates to calories up and dried carrot sticks for when I want a crunchy texture.

Give about 3-400mg of borax a try.
For me, nothing has been a stronger natural antibiotic/ effective at ridding bacterial/yeast over growth than that.

Gut inflammation could most definitely be from all the nasties living in your gut

 

[stackz07]

I also started to think perhaps my issues was only with potatoes so I tried white rice and started getting issues. So I stick to the starch free diet for optimal benefits (for me).

Where do you get your carbs then and how do you get satiated?

 

[jet9]

I am also sensitive to starch, but for me grains are the worst:
- wheat make me moody / irritable / aggressive
- oats crash my blood sugar (like i must eat every 2-3 hours)
- white rice cause insomnia

so far sweet potatoes (i rotate between okinawa and orange varieties) and squashes are best in terms of starches.

In terms of sugars, i don't do dairy so the only "clean" alternative are fruits or honey, they give me much cleaner physical energy comparing to sweet potatoes / squashes and much better well being. But problem it's harder to focus on mental work. It's like constant mini anxiety in the background. Possible reason is that i exercise daily and fruits / honey are not enough to fuel / recover body. That's why lately i do 1-2 days starch free, 1-2 days some starch.

Also one thing i noticed if i go 2-3 days without any starch eating fruits + veggies + proteins and then have starch day (say 400g of sweet potatoes) - i respond to starch very good and have lots of energy. But if i eat starch daily (especially more than 1 meal a day) then tolerance diminishes.

Question to those who are completely starch free, do you do any supplements? Or is it just diet + lifestyle?

 

[jet9]

Every damn time i ditch the starch (potatoes, white rice) my well-being improves in every aspect. I once again noticed this and it surprises me every time but i quess i'll never learn. For few months i was eating potatoes daily ranging from 500-1000g. For one day i ditched them and next day is like waking up from a dream. The difference is so baffling. It's hard to explain but you feel like different person. Does it heal all problems? No, but it sure as hell improves your well-being. Now if you do fine with starches, i believe you. But many of us don't, and ditching them can make a big difference.

what does your starch free diet look like? also is it just diet / lifestyle? Or do you have to use supplements/etc?

 

[Vins7]

I used to have problems similar this. In my case I think it was caused by intestinal paralysis via putrefaction; If there is proliferation of putrefactive bacteria in the colon it becomes paralyzed, moisture in stool is then absorbed leading to constipation and small hard bms. Read the thread about Kellogg's milch regimen if you want to know more about this theory. It's no longer a problem after drinking enough milk / eating enough fruit to provide for adequate fermentation, but I've also cut way back on flesh and gelatin. I know Peat thinks *no* bacteria is optimal and I used to operate on that understanding, but after putting this theory into practice I've definitely turned a corner.

So, did you fix your gut issues eating mostly milk and fruit?

 

[Zpol]

Give about 3-400mg of borax a try.
For me, nothing has been a stronger natural antibiotic/ effective at ridding bacterial/yeast over growth than that

Thanks. I'll look into it more. I have heard of people consuming it but I haven't been able to determine how safe it is.

 

[oldfriend]

So, did you fix your gut issues eating mostly milk and fruit?

It's a work in progress. Transit time, quality and frequency of bowel movements are all improved. Probably the most regular I've ever been in my life.

 

[Runenight201]

I notice that with no starch I don’t feel the same drive to engage and succeed in my world. I seek the avoidance of energy expenditure, almost as if I’m subsisting in a state of continual stress avoidance. This keeps me stress free and so somewhat healthy, but it is no way a recipe for a good life. And the second stress comes, which is an inevitable facet of our existence, I’m reaching for whatever sugar sources I can pound in my body to help deal with it.

Contrast this with the starch fueled state, and I’m willing to seek out and even purposely subjugate myself to what would typically be considered stress so that I can grow and develop as a human being. I think it’s important to consider that a diet should not just be for the healing and prevention of disease, but also support the active growth and development of the individual.

It’s tough to get the recipes right. Foods are very rarely good in their isolation and have to be combined with intentionally selective other foods to become an acceptable and nourishing meal. Everything else has to be combined, starch, fruit veggies, fats, proteins, salt, sugar etc... if the body is to receive the full range of benefits proper nourishment can offer and also prevent negative outcomes from isolated food consumption.

 

[accelerator]

In my experience, I had a major Herxheimer response about 3 days after quitting starch. It was severe, would have gone to the ER but my boyfriend at the time said he it could be a 'healing crisis' and sure enough, I was better by morning and the stomach pain never came back until I attempted to reintroduce a small amount of starch (won't be doing that again). I have dealt with extreme and debilitating gut inflammation for most of my life though, and a bacterial overflowth infection that was unresponsive to antibiotics so I suppose I was an extreme case.
Basically, quitting starch was essential for me. I think for people like me it's easy to continue to keep it out of the diet because adding it back in would be so much more painful. Necessity sparks creativity and I've found lots of foods to replace the need for starch. Drawing upon my HCLF fat, I eat lots of over-ripe bananas and dates to calories up and dried carrot sticks for when I want a crunchy texture.

interesting...never heard of dried carrots.....do you bake them or something?

 

[Lokzo]

I notice that with no starch I don’t feel the same drive to engage and succeed in my world. I seek the avoidance of energy expenditure, almost as if I’m subsisting in a state of continual stress avoidance. This keeps me stress free and so somewhat healthy, but it is no way a recipe for a good life. And the second stress comes, which is an inevitable facet of our existence, I’m reaching for whatever sugar sources I can pound in my body to help deal with it.

Contrast this with the starch fueled state, and I’m willing to seek out and even purposely subjugate myself to what would typically be considered stress so that I can grow and develop as a human being. I think it’s important to consider that a diet should not just be for the healing and prevention of disease, but also support the active growth and development of the individual.

It’s tough to get the recipes right. Foods are very rarely good in their isolation and have to be combined with intentionally selective other foods to become an acceptable and nourishing meal. Everything else has to be combined, starch, fruit veggies, fats, proteins, salt, sugar etc... if the body is to receive the full range of benefits proper nourishment can offer and also prevent negative outcomes from isolated food consumption.

You articulate your relationship with food so eloquently. Thanks for sharing brother.