Coming Off Of High-fat Ketogenic Carnivore Diet And Concerns About Acne

julcreutz

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Apr 8, 2020
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I'm thinking about coming off a high-fat ketogenic carnivorous diet. I've only eaten ruminant meat, fat, salt and small amounts of organs for the last 10 months with a 2:1 - 3:1 fat to protein ratio (in grams).

Every aspect of my health was fixed (especially my acne which veganism before made it much, much worse), but my energy is just progressively getting worse.

It's really strange. Like I can work all day at the computer and so on, but riding my bike for about 10 minutes and my legs get sore and I have to stop for a minute. Also, recovery after workouts is rather slow. My heart rate also sometimes gets really high. I don't know what this is. All of this doesn't improve no matter what fat:protein ratio I consume, how much salt/electrolytes I take in.

Do these symptoms sound like they could be improved by consuming more carbs?

I would probably not start with fruits, as reintroduction experiments revealed that I deal much better with starch than fruits, especially when it comes to acne.

Fruits almost always break me out, while peeled white potatoes only broke me out in very tiny pimples. I don't know if that would have stopped if I had eaten the potatoes for a longer period of time, I only tried for 1 week.

Also an interesting observation: when I tried eating the potatoes (on top of the fat and the meat) I had less energy than without them (like when cycling).

I believe that this high-fat diet made me kind of insulin resistant. This would explain the less energy with the carbs in addition to the randle cycle.

Do any of you have tips on what to do? Does anybody have experience with acne in the way I have? If yes, did the acne come back when introducing carbs? Did it resolve after a couple of days/weeks? Did you have to adjust something, like fat intake?
 

redsun

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Dec 17, 2018
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3,013
I'm thinking about coming off a high-fat ketogenic carnivorous diet. I've only eaten ruminant meat, fat, salt and small amounts of organs for the last 10 months with a 2:1 - 3:1 fat to protein ratio (in grams).

Every aspect of my health was fixed (especially my acne which veganism before made it much, much worse), but my energy is just progressively getting worse.

It's really strange. Like I can work all day at the computer and so on, but riding my bike for about 10 minutes and my legs get sore and I have to stop for a minute. Also, recovery after workouts is rather slow. My heart rate also sometimes gets really high. I don't know what this is. All of this doesn't improve no matter what fat:protein ratio I consume, how much salt/electrolytes I take in.

Do these symptoms sound like they could be improved by consuming more carbs?

I would probably not start with fruits, as reintroduction experiments revealed that I deal much better with starch than fruits, especially when it comes to acne.

Fruits almost always break me out, while peeled white potatoes only broke me out in very tiny pimples. I don't know if that would have stopped if I had eaten the potatoes for a longer period of time, I only tried for 1 week.

Also an interesting observation: when I tried eating the potatoes (on top of the fat and the meat) I had less energy than without them (like when cycling).

I believe that this high-fat diet made me kind of insulin resistant. This would explain the less energy with the carbs in addition to the randle cycle.

Do any of you have tips on what to do? Does anybody have experience with acne in the way I have? If yes, did the acne come back when introducing carbs? Did it resolve after a couple of days/weeks? Did you have to adjust something, like fat intake?

Your body prefers glucose for physical activity. Exercise just sucks without glycogen stores, that's why you have such trouble. Its just a fact of the matter. No athlete or even casual exercise that does moderate or high intense exercise can do it for long without carbohydrates.

High heart rate is caused by high adrenal hormones. Noradrenaline and adrenaline rise on very low carb diets as they are needed for fat metabolism. Thyroid drops as the body is using all of its energy from fat and has to conserve glucose and thyroid and carbs help retain water and electrolytes (like sodium and sodium helps lower adrenal hormones)

Increasing carbohydrates in the diet will switch the body's almost 100% fat metabolism with low thyroid to a higher thyroid with some sugar metabolism. So you should end up with less adrenaline which will keep heart rate at a more normal level. This adjustment can take time.

Perhaps trying raw honey as your initial form of carbs would be better. Since it is an animal food it should be better tolerated. Honey with milk is a good combo if you can do it. Moment you raise thyroid, you suddenly make a ton of these hormones and mess with the homeostasis that was already established. It may take time to reach a new one and acne will likely be more common. High adrenaline from keto also hides inflammation by opposing histamine and other inflammatory compounds because adrenaline is about survival not healing.

Its common to become super sensitive to any food after being on a diet like yours.
 
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julcreutz

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Interesting! I do notice that I do break out a little when I ejaculate. That's why I practice no-fap, but sometimes it obv. happens in sleep.

Perhaps trying raw honey as your initial form of carbs would be better. Since it is an animal food it should be better tolerated. Honey with milk is a good combo if you can do it. Moment you raise thyroid, you suddenly make a ton of these hormones and mess with the homeostasis that was already established. It may take time to reach a new one and acne will likely be more common. High adrenaline from keto also hides inflammation by opposing histamine and other inflammatory compounds because adrenaline is about survival not healing.

Honey doesn't sit well with me, and dairy does make me break out after a while. You mentioning histamines sound intriguing, as I do notice more histamine sensitivity the longer I do this zero-carb diet. I tolerate white potatoes really well tho digestive-wise, and my bowel movements with them were actually better than on zero-carb.
I think I should just reduce the fat when eating higher-carb, right?

Have you tried pulp free orange juice and white sugar as a carb source? A lot from the fruit in the supermarkets isn't ripe and is actually high in starch and soluble fiber

The bacteria might be contributing to the acne problem

I have not tried orange juice and white sugar, I think I still have fear over them. I think I would rather like building up insulin sensitivity with starch, as I don't tolerate fruit all that well.
 

meatbag

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Jan 15, 2016
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Interesting! I do notice that I do break out a little when I ejaculate. That's why I practice no-fap, but sometimes it obv. happens in sleep.



Honey doesn't sit well with me, and dairy does make me break out after a while. You mentioning histamines sound intriguing, as I do notice more histamine sensitivity the longer I do this zero-carb diet. I tolerate white potatoes really well tho digestive-wise, and my bowel movements with them were actually better than on zero-carb.
I think I should just reduce the fat when eating higher-carb, right?



I have not tried orange juice and white sugar, I think I still have fear over them. I think I would rather like building up insulin sensitivity with starch, as I don't tolerate fruit all that well.
You might like this article about starches;Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Sugar (Sucrose) Restrains the Stress Response – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Low Carb Diet – Death to Metabolism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
 

meatbag

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Messages
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I'm thinking about coming off a high-fat ketogenic carnivorous diet. I've only eaten ruminant meat, fat, salt and small amounts of organs for the last 10 months with a 2:1 - 3:1 fat to protein ratio (in grams).

Every aspect of my health was fixed (especially my acne which veganism before made it much, much worse), but my energy is just progressively getting worse.

It's really strange. Like I can work all day at the computer and so on, but riding my bike for about 10 minutes and my legs get sore and I have to stop for a minute. Also, recovery after workouts is rather slow. My heart rate also sometimes gets really high. I don't know what this is. All of this doesn't improve no matter what fat:protein ratio I consume, how much salt/electrolytes I take in.

Do these symptoms sound like they could be improved by consuming more carbs?

I would probably not start with fruits, as reintroduction experiments revealed that I deal much better with starch than fruits, especially when it comes to acne.

Fruits almost always break me out, while peeled white potatoes only broke me out in very tiny pimples. I don't know if that would have stopped if I had eaten the potatoes for a longer period of time, I only tried for 1 week.

Also an interesting observation: when I tried eating the potatoes (on top of the fat and the meat) I had less energy than without them (like when cycling).

I believe that this high-fat diet made me kind of insulin resistant. This would explain the less energy with the carbs in addition to the randle cycle.

Do any of you have tips on what to do? Does anybody have experience with acne in the way I have? If yes, did the acne come back when introducing carbs? Did it resolve after a couple of days/weeks? Did you have to adjust something, like fat intake?
Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
 
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I'm thinking about coming off a high-fat ketogenic carnivorous diet. I've only eaten ruminant meat, fat, salt and small amounts of organs for the last 10 months with a 2:1 - 3:1 fat to protein ratio (in grams).

Every aspect of my health was fixed (especially my acne which veganism before made it much, much worse), but my energy is just progressively getting worse.

It's really strange. Like I can work all day at the computer and so on, but riding my bike for about 10 minutes and my legs get sore and I have to stop for a minute. Also, recovery after workouts is rather slow. My heart rate also sometimes gets really high. I don't know what this is. All of this doesn't improve no matter what fat:protein ratio I consume, how much salt/electrolytes I take in.

Do these symptoms sound like they could be improved by consuming more carbs?

I would probably not start with fruits, as reintroduction experiments revealed that I deal much better with starch than fruits, especially when it comes to acne.

Fruits almost always break me out, while peeled white potatoes only broke me out in very tiny pimples. I don't know if that would have stopped if I had eaten the potatoes for a longer period of time, I only tried for 1 week.

Also an interesting observation: when I tried eating the potatoes (on top of the fat and the meat) I had less energy than without them (like when cycling).

I believe that this high-fat diet made me kind of insulin resistant. This would explain the less energy with the carbs in addition to the randle cycle.

Do any of you have tips on what to do? Does anybody have experience with acne in the way I have? If yes, did the acne come back when introducing carbs? Did it resolve after a couple of days/weeks? Did you have to adjust something, like fat intake?

Yeah,i would keep the Carnivore template and just reduce Fat for increased CHO,Potato is very good,ripe fruit also,fruit juices and processed Food in general not so much.I would rec against doing plain sugar if you are not supplementing.I also would rec against milk,had also increased acne from it,also bacterial contamination.
 
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julcreutz

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Thanks! I've been doing higher-carb for about 1.5 weeks now and it's going quite well. Definitely improved exercise performance. Skin is a little worse, but nothing major. I suspected that anyways. Digestion is perfect. I have a daily bowel movement (thank god) and don't have to wipe at all. Eating only potatoes as carb source rn.
 

limitless77

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Thanks! I've been doing higher-carb for about 1.5 weeks now and it's going quite well. Definitely improved exercise performance. Skin is a little worse, but nothing major. I suspected that anyways. Digestion is perfect. I have a daily bowel movement (thank god) and don't have to wipe at all. Eating only potatoes as carb source rn.
any updates? how's your skin ? and what do you mean by you don't have to wipe and what does it have to do?
 
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julcreutz

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any updates? how's your skin ? and what do you mean by you don't have to wipe and what does it have to do?
I'm not eating potatoes anymore, as I've recognized that I'm mildly allergic to them. Over this past year and a half, I've experimented with other sources of carbs and found that I tolerate fruits quite well. I've also recently started drinking water kefir. My skin is sadly worse, even when I'm strictly carnivore. Thing with my skin is, it has only ever been truly good if I reduce my caloric intake to levels where I have very low energy OR I do long intermittent fasting (20/4 or OMAD).
 
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Have you thought about a cyclical approach? Maybe 1 day cheat meal on the keto diet I am guaranteed that your blood markers for thyroid / cortisol were all jacked up
 
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julcreutz

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Not been eating keto/carnivore for about 9 months. Skin is doing better than ever. **** that ***t. Lots of fruit, potatoes, generally quite low VA.
 

mrsuomi

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Aug 19, 2018
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I was carnivore too with the same issues with energy, now I'm doing the gaps diet intro with alot boiled veggies and honey + coffee, and my energy levels are very high and I did get some acne in the beginning but not anymore
 

Guishido

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Mar 15, 2022
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Not been eating keto/carnivore for about 9 months. Skin is doing better than ever. **** that ***t. Lots of fruit, potatoes, generally quite low VA.
How's it going now? I'm considering the switch too, but worried about food sensitivities. Any foods you tolerate well/don't tolerate and how long would you say it took to adjust from keto/carnivore?
 

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