"I Have Liver Issues And I Am Not Making Progress"

[Amazoniac]

Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) and health
"Although relatively heat-stable, riboflavin is readily degraded by light. Milk kept in glass bottles and delivered to the doorstep might be particularly susceptible to loss through this route, which is also associated with flavor changes, because the oxidative products of photolysis can damage milk lipids. This light sensitivity of riboflavin has led to loss of riboflavin from banked breast milk used in the parenteral nutrition of newborns (13)."

"Steps in the cyclical β oxidation of fatty acids are also dependent on flavins as electron acceptors. An effect on the β oxidation of fatty acids is thought to be responsible for the altered fatty acid profile in hepatic lipids in severely riboflavin-deficient rats (69, 70), which seems to be independent of the dietary source of lipid. The most marked effect was an increase in 18:2n−6 and a lowering of 20:4n−6. Similar but less striking differences were observed in plasma, erythrocyte membranes, and kidney. The influence of riboflavin deficiency on fatty acid profiles may reflect an overall reduction in the β oxidation of fatty acids, while essential fatty acids present in the diet accumulate. Weanling rats fed a riboflavin-deficient diet rapidly showed impaired oxidation of palmitoyl CoA and stearic, oleic, and linoleic acids (71, 72)."

Here's the contest for it:
Since milk is supposed to pass directly from the udder to the baby, it makes no sense to protect it from cool light ("Anchor light-proof package"). Many milks that are better in quality don't pay enough attention to the their package. I remember, by the way, reading one of those food critics mocking some people that eat organic for it being the only criteria to define if a food is good.

Chapter 3. Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, pantothenic acid and biotin
"Riboflavin interrelates with other B vitamins, notably niacin, which requires FAD for its formation from tryptophan, and vitamin B6, which requires FMN for conversion of the phosphates of pyridoxine and pyridoxamine to the co-enzyme pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP) (49)."

Metabolism and Nutrition in Liver Disease - ESPN 0-85200-907-0 (copied from Google books):
"Vitamin deficiencies that are found commonly in patients with liver disease contribute to abnormalities of protein metabolism and cell replication. Circulating levels of two or more water-soluble vitamins measured were found reduced in 32% of alcoholic patients with normal liver, 44% of danwichthecredible those with fatty liver, and 49% of those with cirrhosis15. Folic acid was the vitamin most commonly found deficient, low serum levels occuring in 30% of those with normal liver, 40% with fatty liver, and 47% with cirrhosis. Low serum levels of thiamine, riboflavin, nicotinic acid, and pyridoxine were found burtlantheincredible in more than 25% of patients with cirrhosis, whereas 20% had low levels of vitamin b12, pantothenic acid, or biotin."

Decent metabolism of milk depends on it, and if you provide everything else on the expected amounts but the vitamin, that can be a burden because instead of being a source of riboflavin, it depletes you even more.

 

[Amazoniac]

Not craving eggs when choline is needed can be related to the excess of cholesterol associated with hypopboydism. Even if dietary doesn't impact as much, I can't think of more coming in as something desirable.

I sent this one to Zeus some time ago without reading the entire text:
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research
"It had been shown that thyroxine regulates the conversion of riboflavin to riboflavin mononucleotide and flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) in laboratory animals. In the hypothyroid rat, the flavin adenine dinucleotide level of the liver decreases to levels observed in riboflavin deficiency. We have shown that in six hypothyroid human adults, the activity of erythrocyte glutathione reductase, an accessible FAD-containing enzyme, is decreased to levels observed during riboflavin deficiency. Thyroxine therapy resulted in normal levels of this enzyme while the subjects were on a controlled dietary regimen. This demonstrates that thyroid hormone regulates the enzymatic conversion of riboflavin to its active coenzyme forms in the human adult."

[..]even before the inflammation, there's the... | Ray Peat Forum

Remarkable:
Treatment Of Cirrhosis Of The Liver By A Nutritious Diet And Supplements Rich In Vitamin B Complex

 

[Daniel11]

I would appreciate a thread about your experiences!


That's what I understood, they do not fast, they eat what they need, and then one day they need nothing more.
Now I read the forum in the morning with the red light on my throat.
I take the red light for a go on my belly and liver and kidneys before sleep. I am almost sure I will wake up one morning with the light on...
And I sun gaze at sun set!

Better here to talk about light for liver?
Daniel, have you done a resume topic about your use of the red light, in the red light forum?
So you could refer to it and have to type less. :)

One thing i did that I'm sure helped my liver and my whole body was get a root canal removed that i had since i was young. Many years ago i had all my mercury fillings removed, i was very glad i did but never noticed any big changes in my health. I had read many times about the important health concerns of having a root canal but never thought it was really that important. Last year i needed a new crown and post but decided to have the root canal removed and replaced with a titanium implant and a E-max crown, i was really surprised how soon after i noticed a very positive shift, i felt more at ease in my body and my vision improved, colors seemed more vibrant.

I brush my teeth with hydrogen peroxide, colloidal silver and baking soda, my dentist always comments about how white and nice my teeth are, once a week or so i rub ozonated olive oil on my gums, this feels really good, i use to have a lot of tatar build up on my bottom front teeth often within weeks of cleaning them, after i started rubbing ozonated oil on my teeth and gums i get a only little tatar after many months instead of weeks.

I believe our orals health plays a big part in how we feel, and may be a missing link for some people.

Understanding the issues with root canals, part one - OraWellness

PurO3 Tooth and Gum Support

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks, Tarmander! :)

Honestly, the things I found worked best aren't really that exciting or novel so I'm not sure I'll be adding any great insights here, but they were switching to a simple diet of easily digestible whole foods and learning to let go. Letting go of false beliefs, overanalyzing, relationships, loved ones, belongings, guilt, shame, fear, things outside of my control and the need to be healed. Everyday I practice letting go. I have holding on down pat, but letting go has been hard for me over the years.

For me, letting go was always my biggest hangup whereas for others, it may be their diet. I've always been conscious of eating healthy, most likely because I grew up around sickness and death so deep down I feared ending up like my loved ones. You know, like the world is an unforgiving place that I must defend myself from. Food was the easiest thing for me to control. And of course, this belief about the world was not so great for my adrenals and kidneys, or the rest of my body for that matter.

So yeah, I try to not worry about the details anymore, but I do know my limits and try to honor them. I channel my inner Bruce Lee and try to just be like water, going with the flow. LOL Ideally, I'd be eating any whole foods I wanted because deep down I don't feel any of them are bad for me and that's why I always try reintroducing foods back into my diet. I've seen the science, I respect my doctor's, Ray's and Dr. Morse's experience and opinions, but I also respect my own.

Right now my body does best on a raw fruitarian diet with occasional celery juice when my adrenals are stressed and giving me salt cravings. My weight, temps and blood pressure get checked at my doctors every 6 weeks and I get regular blood work every few months or so. Every now and then I pee in a jar to make sure my kidneys are still filtering well. If not, I hit the dark grapes because they seem to give me the best filtration.

My adrenals are definitely healing up. My systolic blood pressure had been below 90 for as long as I could remember and it's now 120. I get out in the sun, I'm in bed most nights by 10:00pm, I meditate a.k.a listen or dance to music - even rock can put me in a meditative state, I no longer watch the news, I'm very selective with the type of social media I look at and I reduced my time spent on health forums - I love you guys but I was feeling stressed from information overload and finding it hard to trust my own experiences. That's about it, I think. :)

Interesting stuff you have here. I watched a bit of Dr. Morse. He reminds me of some of the detox gurus I have fallen victim to in the past, but I liked some of his stuff. His take on protein seems to make an intuitive type of sense. I have had the most problems with protein, especially denatured, with a lesser extent meat. Not so much scallops and other shell fish. I think that has something to do with autistic tendencies and free glutamate.

His point about how with weak adrenals/kidneys protein simply adds to your acidic load, or waste load...I like it. I have done better taking less protein, at least at this time. So it kind of aligns with what I have been doing, also with moving towards more fruit...

I think he is missing the choline/fat soluble angle. I am not sure how you'd survive on melon and fruit alone without fat solubles and calcium. I think all my teeth would fall out of my head.

The idea I have, if combining Dr. Morse and Peat, would be to alter the protein depending on your reaction to it. So if you are new to Dr. Peat, and following his recommendations about protein, sugar, and fat soluble amounts...you would test out protein. If after a week or two, you felt better on higher protein, it means your liver needs the protein and your kidneys are strong. If the protein makes you feel bad, it means your liver is doing alright and your kidneys need help. Depending on your reaction you would know when to add in higher amounts of protein. Just thinking outloud, what do you think?

I had a few questions for you if you wouldn't mind answering. First, can you tell from just looking in the toilet if your kidneys are filtering? Like is your urine cloudy or anything? Or do you have to use the jar?

Also, what makes dark grapes so special? Is it something you can do all the time or can you overdo it (I can eat watermelon all the time but too many blue berries and I break out)? Also, how are your energy levels since your blood pressure has come up? Thanks!

 

[EIRE24]

Thanks, Tarmander! :)

Honestly, the things I found worked best aren't really that exciting or novel so I'm not sure I'll be adding any great insights here, but they were switching to a simple diet of easily digestible whole foods and learning to let go. Letting go of false beliefs, overanalyzing, relationships, loved ones, belongings, guilt, shame, fear, things outside of my control and the need to be healed. Everyday I practice letting go. I have holding on down pat, but letting go has been hard for me over the years.

For me, letting go was always my biggest hangup whereas for others, it may be their diet. I've always been conscious of eating healthy, most likely because I grew up around sickness and death so deep down I feared ending up like my loved ones. You know, like the world is an unforgiving place that I must defend myself from. Food was the easiest thing for me to control. And of course, this belief about the world was not so great for my adrenals and kidneys, or the rest of my body for that matter.

So yeah, I try to not worry about the details anymore, but I do know my limits and try to honor them. I channel my inner Bruce Lee and try to just be like water, going with the flow. LOL Ideally, I'd be eating any whole foods I wanted because deep down I don't feel any of them are bad for me and that's why I always try reintroducing foods back into my diet. I've seen the science, I respect my doctor's, Ray's and Dr. Morse's experience and opinions, but I also respect my own.

Right now my body does best on a raw fruitarian diet with occasional celery juice when my adrenals are stressed and giving me salt cravings. My weight, temps and blood pressure get checked at my doctors every 6 weeks and I get regular blood work every few months or so. Every now and then I pee in a jar to make sure my kidneys are still filtering well. If not, I hit the dark grapes because they seem to give me the best filtration.

My adrenals are definitely healing up. My systolic blood pressure had been below 90 for as long as I could remember and it's now 120. I get out in the sun, I'm in bed most nights by 10:00pm, I meditate a.k.a listen or dance to music - even rock can put me in a meditative state, I no longer watch the news, I'm very selective with the type of social media I look at and I reduced my time spent on health forums - I love you guys but I was feeling stressed from information overload and finding it hard to trust my own experiences. That's about it, I think. :)

I dont mean to derail the thread but could you maybe private message me or if OP is happy enough to allow you to post how you helped heal the adrenals or at least strengthen them.

 

[Tarmander]

I dont mean to derail the thread but could you maybe private message me or if OP is happy enough to allow you to post how you helped heal the adrenals or at least strengthen them.

Please post it here so we can all benefit :)

 

[Amazoniac]

I dont mean to derail the thread but could you maybe private message me or if OP is happy enough to allow you to post how you helped heal the adrenals or at least strengthen them.

I'm curious as well, not just with adrenals but everything that comes to your mind and you want to share since you spent some time away from the forum and know some interesting things. For example, something that is often neglected, or something that you often disagree, or things that you often find helpful to focus on, etc.

 

[Wagner83]

Sounds like @Jennifer could make a nice thread if she can be bothered, it would be a nice solution, long useful posts lost in the middle of a thread have a tendency to hide.

 

[Xisca]

Sounds like @Jennifer could make a nice thread if she can be bothered, it would be a nice solution, long useful posts lost in the middle of a thread have a tendency to hide.

+1
differenciate the trees from the forest!
A thread about washing kidney and adrenals etc
I have also noticed things myself about peeing more or less or change in color etc.
Not easy to interprete!

 

[yerrag]

Have you ever tested breathing high amounts of CO2? Or increasing your CO2 intake with CO2 baths? I often feel it is the missing piece.

Reading through the book Cancer Cured: Victory over the War on Cancer, I was amazed at what's stated there about the ideal oxygen/CO2 mixture and how that differs from our atmosphere:

Current carbon dioxide levels in sea level air are currently only 0.04% and oxygen levels are 21% - an environment that Dr. Buteyko once called 'poisonous in its composition;' containing 10-times more oxygen and 250-times less carbon dioxide than what our bodies need. "...the cells of animals and humans need about 7% CO2 and only 2% O2 in the surrounding environment. This is the way our cells live: cells of the heart, brain, and kidneys, explained Dr. Buteyko.

I'll be receiving my carbogen generator from co2islife this October, and I hope to use it fully. If what the above quoted paragraph states is true, aren't we getting more sick with the pure oxygen being used on us in hospitals? The carbogen generator supplements atmospheric air with carbon dioxide, and would appear to be superior to the pure oxygen combined with atmospheric air that we are getting in hospitals. What about those ICU patients on ventilators? Aren't they getting even higher concentrations of oxygen and lower concentrations of CO2? How can they even get well? They may get discharged eventually, but are they being sent home more stressed and kept functional by drugs and likely to return eventually?

So, I agree. CO2 may just be the one important missing piece. Because it is so basic and essentially near to being a free resource, and because of its strong impact on our well-being, it is intentionally ignored at best and maligned at worst, by mainstream medicine. Just by increasing awareness and acceptance of CO2 on the common people, people would be unshackled from chronic disease and be less needy of health insurance.

CO2 is the one thing, if there is one, that can truly emancipate us.

 

[Xisca]

"...the cells of animals and humans need about 7% CO2 and only 2% O2 in the surrounding environment.

This is different from out atmosphere because our cells do not live in it, can it be? Our cells beneficiate from the produced CO2, if we make it and not make lactic acid... CO2 is O2, just if you add 1C! The more our body breathe O2, the more it must give a carbon to fix it?

 

[Tarmander]

Reading through the book Cancer Cured: Victory over the War on Cancer, I was amazed at what's stated there about the ideal oxygen/CO2 mixture and how that differs from our atmosphere:

Current carbon dioxide levels in sea level air are currently only 0.04% and oxygen levels are 21% - an environment that Dr. Buteyko once called 'poisonous in its composition;' containing 10-times more oxygen and 250-times less carbon dioxide than what our bodies need. "...the cells of animals and humans need about 7% CO2 and only 2% O2 in the surrounding environment. This is the way our cells live: cells of the heart, brain, and kidneys, explained Dr. Buteyko.

I'll be receiving my carbogen generator from co2islife this October, and I hope to use it fully. If what the above quoted paragraph states is true, aren't we getting more sick with the pure oxygen being used on us in hospitals? The carbogen generator supplements atmospheric air with carbon dioxide, and would appear to be superior to the pure oxygen combined with atmospheric air that we are getting in hospitals. What about those ICU patients on ventilators? Aren't they getting even higher concentrations of oxygen and lower concentrations of CO2? How can they even get well? They may get discharged eventually, but are they being sent home more stressed and kept functional by drugs and likely to return eventually?

So, I agree. CO2 may just be the one important missing piece. Because it is so basic and essentially near to being a free resource, and because of its strong impact on our well-being, it is intentionally ignored at best and maligned at worst, by mainstream medicine. Just by increasing awareness and acceptance of CO2 on the common people, people would be unshackled from chronic disease and be less needy of health insurance.

CO2 is the one thing, if there is one, that can truly emancipate us.

One of my staples now is a dust mask when I am not doing much, or driving, etc. You can go to Home Depot and try a few different kinds to find one you like. Helps recirculate a bit of CO2. At first it strained my breathing but I am pretty used to it now.

 

[yerrag]

One of my staples now is a dust mask when I am not doing much, or driving, etc. You can go to Home Depot and try a few different kinds to find one you like. Helps recirculate a bit of CO2. At first it strained my breathing but I am pretty used to it now.

Did you notice any change in you since you started wearing dust masks? Higher temperature and/or pulse?

 

[Tarmander]

Did you notice any change in you since you started wearing dust masks? Higher temperature and/or pulse?

I have noticed it helps with stomach bloat to a certain extent. Like after a lot of fruit, I will feel pretty full and a bit uncomfortable...wearing the mask for 15 minutes or so calms all that down. I did not use it for a day or so and I noticed I was getting really really full. Once I started using it again that went away. So it is definitely helpful, although I think there is a short term cap. I have had it on all day before and it was not like whoa omg better then using it for a few 15 minute periods in that day. Now maybe if I did it for a year all day everyday I would start to get some deeper results.

Edit: a slightly higher pulse yes, maybe 5 blips. If I use it at 7000 feet though my heart pounds.

 

[Dante]

Reading through the book Cancer Cured: Victory over the War on Cancer, I was amazed at what's stated there about the ideal oxygen/CO2 mixture and how that differs from our atmosphere:

Current carbon dioxide levels in sea level air are currently only 0.04% and oxygen levels are 21% - an environment that Dr. Buteyko once called 'poisonous in its composition;' containing 10-times more oxygen and 250-times less carbon dioxide than what our bodies need. "...the cells of animals and humans need about 7% CO2 and only 2% O2 in the surrounding environment. This is the way our cells live: cells of the heart, brain, and kidneys, explained Dr. Buteyko.

I'll be receiving my carbogen generator from co2islife this October, and I hope to use it fully. If what the above quoted paragraph states is true, aren't we getting more sick with the pure oxygen being used on us in hospitals? The carbogen generator supplements atmospheric air with carbon dioxide, and would appear to be superior to the pure oxygen combined with atmospheric air that we are getting in hospitals. What about those ICU patients on ventilators? Aren't they getting even higher concentrations of oxygen and lower concentrations of CO2? How can they even get well? They may get discharged eventually, but are they being sent home more stressed and kept functional by drugs and likely to return eventually?

So, I agree. CO2 may just be the one important missing piece. Because it is so basic and essentially near to being a free resource, and because of its strong impact on our well-being, it is intentionally ignored at best and maligned at worst, by mainstream medicine. Just by increasing awareness and acceptance of CO2 on the common people, people would be unshackled from chronic disease and be less needy of health insurance.

CO2 is the one thing, if there is one, that can truly emancipate us.

At what percentage does the partial pressure or percentage of CO2 becomes dangerous, I heard over 10% in air can cause unconsciousness in a minute or so. lab rats are generally killed by CO2 asphyxiation if I remember .

 

[yerrag]

This is different from out atmosphere because our cells do not live in it, can it be? Our cells beneficiate from the produced CO2, if we make it and not make lactic acid... CO2 is O2, just if you add 1C! The more our body breathe O2, the more it must give a carbon to fix it?

I'm thinking of buying the book of Buteyko (Dr Buteyko Lecture (PDF Book) ) to get a clearer picture of that statement on oxygen and CO2 percentages. But if our cells would need that much CO2 and that much less O2, I'm just thinking that our body won't be producing excess CO2 at all. Yet there is widespread acceptance that too much CO2 produced by the body can be dangerous. Can the body rely too much on glucose for oxidative metabolism such that too much CO2 will be produced, to the point that it becomes unhealthy? Could there be such a thing as having too much of a good thing, as far as oxidative metabolism goes, that would count as a runaway reaction that is nuclear industry catastrophic in the human vessel?

 

[yerrag]

At what percentage does the partial pressure or percentage of CO2 becomes dangerous, I heard over 10% in air can cause unconsciousness in a minute or so. lab rats are generally killed by CO2 asphyxiation if I remember .

Steve @co2islife, would you care to chime in on this? I think you have advised limiting CO2 % to 10% in the carbogen generator settings.

 

[Tarmander]

I'm thinking of buying the book of Buteyko (Dr Buteyko Lecture (PDF Book) ) to get a clearer picture of that statement on oxygen and CO2 percentages. But if our cells would need that much CO2 and that much less O2, I'm just thinking that our body won't be producing excess CO2 at all. Yet there is widespread acceptance that too much CO2 produced by the body can be dangerous. Can the body rely too much on glucose for oxidative metabolism such that too much CO2 will be produced, to the point that it becomes unhealthy? Could there be such a thing as having too much of a good thing, as far as oxidative metabolism goes, that would count as a runaway reaction that is nuclear industry catastrophic in the human vessel?

There are reports/studies at 10K + elevation of losing both fat and muscle relatively rapidly, so technically you could eat yourself.

 

[Daniel11]

There are reports/studies at 10K + elevation of losing both fat and muscle relatively rapidly, so technically you could eat yourself.

There are many communities of people on the planet living above 10,000 feet even above 15,000 feet, all the people i met living at those altitudes are some of the healthiest, happiest most emotionally balanced people i have ever met.

 

[Tarmander]

There are many communities of people on the planet living above 10,000 feet even above 15,000 feet, all the people i met living at those altitudes are some of the healthiest, happiest most emotionally balanced people i have ever met.

Oh sure...but if youre a lean mean 160lb 5'10 male and you go to the Himalayas and hike around for a month, your going to lose muscle.