How to optimize steroids and hormones as best as possible when on dutasteride/finasteride? Very controversial post!

[dervmai]

I take dutasteride for hair loss. I have been getting into ray peat and his works, because I have been struggling with hypothyroidism. I understand that dutasteride is a 5 ar enzyme inhibitor, and I know the effects of this aren't good. I don't believe in the natural route of hair loss treatment and prevention. Sure there might be something in terms of scalp calcification and things along that line.... but the fact that DHT isn't one of the main causes for hair loss is a joke... I doubt anyone here has actually had substantial prevention of hair loss... you are all in denial. Dutasteride and finasteride work well for hair loss, and the statistics show it...

I won't ever get off dutasteride... just fyi... please don't come into this thread trying to convince me otherwise.

I'm asking how I can mitigate the negative effects of taking drugs like this. Specifically how it effects the steroid hormones. I looked up some articles but can't find a whole lot on it.

I read this one forum post on this website from a long time ago. About how one should be supplementing with thyroid as well as increasing other steroids such as progesterone and pregnenolone and cortisol (thyroid supplementation).

I need more info. I get it is bad for you... I don't believe in these bullsh%t posts about natural remedies and the natural approaches to fixing hair loss. The only ones I even bother to entertain are the scalp calcification and skull expansion and how to go about fixing and preventing it.

Hair Like a Fox or whatever by danny roddy is a joke, it has some good points but making the statement that DHT isn't the cause of hair loss is a joke.

 

[Charger]

I'm asking how I can mitigate the negative effects of taking drugs like this.

Pansterone
Androsterone
11-Keto-DHT
Proviron

 

[dervmai]

Pansterone
Androsterone
11-Keto-DHT
Proviron

Wouldn't increasing the precursor steroids like Pregnenolone and DHEA cause an increase in T which would increase Estrogen? How does the feedback loop work??

 

[Schizophonia]

enclomiphene citrate (a bit hard to find)

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Do you feel any negative side effects from it? Do you test your blood levels of androgens to see if they drop? If no to both, I see no harm.

 

[dervmai]

Do you feel any negative side effects from it? Do you test your blood levels of androgens to see if they drop? If no to both, I see no harm.

Not anything related to libido or anything like that. I have been struggling with skin issues for a while (seb derm eczema) etc... I just worry the hormone changes could be affecting it.

 

[dervmai]

Do you feel any negative side effects from it? Do you test your blood levels of androgens to see if they drop? If no to both, I see no harm.

Which tests do you recommend I do?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Which tests do you recommend I do?

I’d definitely regularly test Total and free Testosterone, SHBG, DHT, DHEA-s, Estrogen, Prolactin.

 

[PeterSN]

Not anything related to libido or anything like that. I have been struggling with skin issues for a while (seb derm eczema) etc... I just worry the hormone changes could be affecting it.

The thing is finasteride doesn't cause hair to grow back because it blocks dht, it does something to estrogen which causes the hair to regrow. The fact you think it's dht makes no sense. There are many men who have perfectly normal levels of dht and no hairloss whatsoever. It's definitely related to estrogen, I found two studies where they showed that E2(estradiol) caused premature categen phase, where the hair follicle breaks away from the bulb.

I feel like the reason there are no anecdotes on raypeatforum is because people haven't cured any of their other health issues either. I firmly believe that if people here cured all their health issues, and got back into a youthful state of energy flow, there hair would most definitely follow

 

[EustaceBagge]

I feel like the reason there are no anecdotes on raypeatforum is because people haven't cured any of their other health issues either. I firmly believe that if people here cured all their health issues, and got back into a youthful state of energy flow, there hair would most definitely follow

Do you think this has to do with stress/mentality/outlook on life? Basically no matter which treatments for hair loss I utilize, unless the mentality also changes with the increased metabolism the underlying structure will be problematic? Otherwise I'm more than ready to accept the DHT theory (I'm already bald, just to make sure I'm not "unnecessarily" unhealthy).

 

[PeterSN]

Do you think this has to do with stress/mentality/outlook on life? Basically no matter which treatments for hair loss I utilize, unless the mentality also changes with the increased metabolism the underlying structure will be problematic? Otherwise I'm more than ready to accept the DHT theory (I'm already bald, just to make sure I'm not "unnecessarily" unhealthy).

From all the research I've read every balding person seems to have elevated adrenal status. So high DHEA, adrenaline, etc.. This can promote an excited state within the cell which goes hand in hand with estrogen.

it seems that E2(Estradiol) is the most problematic, because it causes many downstream effects that change other things. For example progenitor stem cells are a type of stem cell found in the dermal papila cells. This is responsible for maintaining structure and form and can convert the hair follicle back into terminal if it's stem cell makeup is changed. It just so happens that some researchers found out that in balding areas they are lacking certain types or subtypes of progenitor stem cells (cd200, cd34) which are both mediated by E2.

The other thing is, estrogen in of itself is a growth molecule in a way it promotes, excitation and change. But too much of it throws off things like the hair cycle where in some studies they showed it to cause hair follicles to detach prematurely from the bulbus root. But in other studies the right dose actually promotes hair regrowth.

Another thing to look into is mast cells. Ray peat theorised that they are probably the main player of stem cell differentiation in general, and any mast cell changes could disturb the stem cell differentiation. Well some studies showed that balding areas of the scalp had increased amounts of mast cells, indicating a possible relationship between the two.

From my own experiences every stressful event has lead me to lose more hair throughout my life. I feel like we forget what life truly should feel like if the only thing we really remember is the pseudo stress state we have been in since the age of 13 for example. It can be even hard to recognise what needs to change because we have completely gotten used to the feeling of being chronically unwell.

In closing, I like to zoom out on the big picture, why does finasteride work? It probably works because it is most likely differentiating the stem cells in the scalp by changing the flashes of estrogen signaling, making the scalp stem cells promote more of a makeup similar to prepubertal conditions.

It's also worth mentioning that newborn babies regardless of male or female seem to have a male pattern baldness to them, ie. Balding on the vertex, and sides. Danny Roddy talked about this and how the researchers also found increased levels of prolactin, estrogen and dhea in the newborns.

So in an official closing I d just like to say that there are many paths to estrogen synthesis and promotion. That's why I think it's so hard to cure hairloss naturally and why finasteride works so well. I feel like going the natural way you have to not only close all the different doors leading to an estrogen imbalance, but also promote different paths of rejuvenation through progesterone upregulation, thyroid and nutrition. So basically fixing all the other health issues before tackling hair.

 

[EustaceBagge]

From all the research I've read every balding person seems to have elevated adrenal status. So high DHEA, adrenaline, etc.. This can promote an excited state within the cell which goes hand in hand with estrogen.

First of all, amazing post. The studies you posted showed that AGA often goes together with metabolic syndrome and PCOS like hormonal milieu. How much do you think diet is responsible for this, and how much early childhood trauma/bad stress management in general? Can we completely fix it without looking at the mental aspect?

From my own experiences every stressful event has lead me to lose more hair throughout my life. I feel like we forget what life truly should feel like if the only thing we really remember is the pseudo stress state we have been in since the age of 13 for example. It can be even hard to recognise what needs to change because we have completely gotten used to the feeling of being chronically unwell.

This really resonates with me. As my metabolism improved, especially after periods of high simple carbs, I suddenly become aware of a "stress" that was already there. The moment I'm aware of it is also when I can get rid of it, if that makes sense. This makes me wonder how many layers of stress I have that I'm not even aware of, that slows me down in life. Sad state of affairs, but somehow it doesn't demoralize me. I can get over it I guess, just wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[PeterSN]

First of all, amazing post. The studies you posted showed that AGA often goes together with metabolic syndrome and PCOS like hormonal milieu. How much do you think diet is responsible for this, and how much early childhood trauma/bad stress management in general? Can we completely fix it without looking at the mental aspect?

This really resonates with me. As my metabolism improved, especially after periods of high simple carbs, I suddenly become aware of a "stress" that was already there. The moment I'm aware of it is also when I can get rid of it, if that makes sense. This makes me wonder how many layers of stress I have that I'm not even aware of, that slows me down in life. Sad state of affairs, but somehow it doesn't demoralize me. I can get over it I guess, just wouldn't wish it on anyone.

The PCOS comment you left reminds me of a speaker that talked to ray. Where she said that she was having hairloss, (MPB), facial hair growth and other problems related to bad digestion and energy levels.

Both she and ray pieced together that it was correlated with her very stressful job and life and how she was remembering an almost direct correlation to that and the intensity of her PCOS symptoms. So the whole condition is probably an adrenal issue caused by an unfavourable environment or stress on the person.

In regards to diet, I think it can be helpful, but very important to not let it blind you. For example if someone focuses on the perfect diet, but they feel like they don't need to address some serious life altering issue that has been haunting them for 6 years or something, that person will most definitely not improve. Mostly because when you're in a stress cycle, it's very hard to break out, you'd probably need to investigate thyroid, or do some tedious measurements of where you are in terms of hormones, temps and pulses

 

[Jremy25]

You could locally apply DHT gel on your penis to prevent it from being starved of androgens for too long. Also using aromasin is helpful to keep estrogen in check.