Why DHT doesn’t cause hair loss - My response to Kevin Mann

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Hans

Hans

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When I was on fin before having sides effect my athletic performance where to the roof with no feeling of "stess" during workout. After 9 months I got side and stay stuck into pfs for years and never gain back my resistance to stress even with workout I got wack out quite easily. Now I'm on beta blocker since having tachycardia due to insomnia and stress from PFS for years. I can say beta blocker work really well to lower my stress level.
Have you ever tried clonidine?
 
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Hans

Hans

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Nope never. I want to try microdosing of fluoxetine to raise allô
Have you done a blood test to see your noradrenaline and adrenaline levels. I'm just curious about their ratios. have you tried allo on its own? Why use fluoxetine to do it?
 

edoos

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Have you done a blood test to see your noradrenaline and adrenaline levels. I'm just curious about their ratios. have you tried allo on its own? Why use fluoxetine to do it?
Nope never, but I plan to do it soon. My cortisol is to the roof top of the range same for SDHEA. I plan to do noradrenaline and adrenaline. My hair quality is definitely better since starting bisoprolol microdosing. I wanted to try fluoxetine because I thought that using it will prevent my own production to stop if I use directly allo supplements.
 

stoic

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I think the very term "DHT blocker" is misleading and should be discarded.

Those are not DHT blockers, they are 5α-reductase inhibitors, which means they also inhibit many other essential functions for which the enzyme is responsible.

And there are plenty of studies on this forum showing the importance of this enzyme for cognitive and mental function – not through DHT but also other steroids.
 

MattFord

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That is true for some of the compounds in the video. The only somewhat effective alternatives for me, besides blocking DHT has been to focus on improving blood flow by a) relieving perimeter muscles of tension with botox and magnesium b) improving posture and class II malocclusion reliveing temporal artery of being "pinched" (This is a big one for many) c) iRestore red light helmet.

When a greater oxygenated environment is created, conversion from T favours to E rather than DHT. Since T->E conversion is oxygen dependant and a tight galea lacks oxygen.

The thing with DHT reducers, it seems that peoples bodies will adapt to it and side effects may not occur. T takes over DHTs role. Top athletes like Tom Brady are on finasteride, the einstein of our generation is on it, Elon Musk himself.
 

stoic

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The thing with DHT reducers, it seems that peoples bodies will adapt to it and side effects may not occur. T takes over DHTs role. Top athletes like Tom Brady are on finasteride, the einstein of our generation is on it, Elon Musk himself.
The thing is, even if it were true that T can substitute DHT, there are other steroids that are impaired if you inhibit the 5alpha-reductase (allopregnanolone and THDOC for instance). This is what could cause some of the worst side effects of finasteride.

Unfortunately, athletes are poor examples of health. And celebrities in general will do what top doctors tell them, so I bet they will be on plenty of other medications too, some of which will be masking finasteride's effects. Many doctors straight out refuse to attribute side effects to the meds they prescribe, so the official statistics are mostly just the tip of the iceberg, and the real causes for the patients' symptoms are rarely determined.

I say that because I took finasteride for three years, and it took me an enormous amount of time to realise and accept that it was the reason for my symptoms. Before that I managed to function by plugging holes, which is the standard medical approach but is obviously counterproductive in the long-term.
 

MattFord

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The reason for bringing Brady up was to highlight that he is still peforming physically while Musk is still performing mentally.

So is is still possible to perform at the highest possible level while being on the drug.

How is your hair after stopping fin?
I used topical finasteride + minox and have lost a lot pf hair since stopping 2.5 years ago.
 

Mister

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The thing is, even if it were true that T can substitute DHT, there are other steroids that are impaired if you inhibit the 5alpha-reductase (allopregnanolone and THDOC for instance). This is what could cause some of the worst side effects of finasteride.

Unfortunately, athletes are poor examples of health. And celebrities in general will do what top doctors tell them, so I bet they will be on plenty of other medications too, some of which will be masking finasteride's effects. Many doctors straight out refuse to attribute side effects to the meds they prescribe, so the official statistics are mostly just the tip of the iceberg, and the real causes for the patients' symptoms are rarely determined.

I say that because I took finasteride for three years, and it took me an enormous amount of time to realise and accept that it was the reason for my symptoms. Before that I managed to function by plugging holes, which is the standard medical approach but is obviously counterproductive in the long-term.
Did you recover completely after quitting fina?
 

stoic

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How is your hair after stopping fin?
I used topical finasteride + minox and have lost a lot pf hair since stopping 2.5 years ago.
I had zero hair loss for about a year and a half, then a couple of months of fast recession (nothing too bad though).

It might be that I just lost the hair I would have already lost without finasteride.

However, the hair loss happened shortly after stopping cabergoline, which I had taken for almost a year after stopping finasteride.

I decided to stop taking cabergoline since I was feeling increasingly uneasy on it, but the following months have been very difficult (labs showed low testosterone and, of course, high prolactin).

So I suspect prolactin and stress in general might be involved in my case.

I have since implemented the following strategies:

– supplementing with high-quality minerals and fat solubles
– getting sunshine on my scalp every morning
– upping my protein intake
– just started PRP

Although I don't have high hopes regarding a possible regrowth, at least I don't seem to be losing any more hair.

But even if I did, my experience with finasteride has completely changed my mindset.

I no longer care as much and will never again risk my health for my hair.

If I do end up bald, I will just shave it off, stop worry about it and focus on my physique and my health.

Did you recover completely after quitting fina?
I wish! Will post an update in the PFS thread.
 
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I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad.. that people who are aware of the Ray Peat community still don't know what Ray was trying to get at...

From my understanding, aging sets in right at puberty.. why? puberty itself marks a period of increase in androgens and therefore of estrogen. This coincides with greater activity of the pituitary gland. A delicate balance is required to introduce the highly energy intensive reproductive/sexual function and at the same time maintain the body's structure.

This delicate balance can become easily disregulated by the accumulation of many environmental stressors and poisons. ie polyunsaturated fatty acid accumulation in storage, heavy metal accumulation, EMF, socioeconomic stress, psychosocial stress, generational stress and prenatal stress.

In balding men, DHT, like DHEA-S, rises to counteract the myriad of stressors, the reductionists have taken this to mean that it is the CAUSE of the problem. Just like saturated fat takes the blame for the damage that unsaturated fats do.

Females do experience some balding but not to the degree of men because they have ovaries which produce massive amounts of progesterone to balance estrogen. They generally have better ratio of progesterone:estrogen vs the balding man who may have lower estrogen but not as good a ratio.

Eunuchs don't bald - because they don't have androgens which can aromatase into estrogen.

Addison's disease people don't bald (ie JFK) because they don't produce cortisol.

It seems that if you completely knock out one or more of these stress signalling hormones you can halt or reverse the balding process, because they are all required to create a self sustaining loop of stress.

As Peat has mentioned many times, the aim should be to lower all the stress substances, as they seem to support one another: estrogen, endotoxin, nitric oxide, parathyroid hormone, prostaglandin, prolactin, cortisol, aldosterone, serotonin, iron, polyunsaturated fats.
If DHT was the sole cause of hairloss, we should be able to just take finasteride, minoxidil and be done with it and keep our hair from when we are teenagers but that obviously doesn't work out.
 
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The reason for bringing Brady up was to highlight that he is still peforming physically while Musk is still performing mentally.

So is is still possible to perform at the highest possible level while being on the drug.

How is your hair after stopping fin?
I used topical finasteride + minox and have lost a lot pf hair since stopping 2.5 years ago.
Did Elon admit to taking it?
 

Gustav3Y

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The reason for bringing Brady up was to highlight that he is still peforming physically while Musk is still performing mentally.
It is impossible Musk is not on something for cognitive enhancement, etc if he is on finasteride or dutasteride.
He could be on Ritalin, SNRI, and so many other drugs, even anxiolytics.

Also Musk in some videos used to have qyno, like where he presented the tiles.
Also he mentioned he doesn't sleep often to work, ironically it does not seem to affect him much as far as we see as outsiders.
 
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It is impossible Musk is not on something for cognitive enhancement, etc if he is on finasteride or dutasteride.
He could be on Ritalin, SNRI, and so many other drugs, even anxiolytics.

Also Musk in some videos used to have qyno, like where he presented the tiles.
Also he mentioned he doesn't sleep often to work, ironically it does not seem to affect him much as far as we see as outsiders.
I wouldn't be surprised if he took modafinil
 

Gustav3Y

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I wouldn't be surprised if he took modafinil
I mean the guy can afford to talk to the greatest neurologists, psychiatrists, endocrinologists anywhere in the world at any university or science lab, both financially and by intellectual fame.
Why would he limit himself to being "natural", he already went the hair implant direction (which is not natural, but is totally fine) and has massive passions about "evolution" and people living on Mars.
Not to mention Neuralink where clearly you see his interests in neurology, brain, etc.
 

metamorph

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@Hans, where do you stand on histamine, whether it's a stress hormone, and it's potential role in hair loss?

I learned from reading your blog and also @redsun's posts about the benefits of increasing histamine and that it also supposedly increases 5ar. I notice more focus and less anxiety when supplementing L-Histidine, but I feel like it's the most powerful driver of thinning/loss in my case, moreso than lowering estro or increasing DHT directly. It would make sense why antihistamines used topically (such as cetirizine) have been shown to be beneficial for hair.

Peat and those on RPF typically consider histamine to be a stress hormone, but considering it also increases 5ar/DHT, I'm torn on whether or not it's something I should be increasing when I feel cognitive benefits but see an increase in hair loss.

And this seems to be a common thing in my experience and others I've talked to. The better, more driven, motivated, or androgenic we tend to feel, the more hair loss seems to progress or accelerate. Hair loss almost seems to be a trade between slowing the engine down and keeping your hair or improving performance and increasing hair loss. Which if hair loss is mostly driven by stress, wouldn't make a lot of sense to me, as the better my metabolism and androgens get, the better I tolerate stress and the more stable my mood.



Purple Panda Labs
Just confirming that you've found PPL's DHT to be legit and beneficial for you? Thanks
 
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