Why DHT doesn’t cause hair loss - My response to Kevin Mann

[Mister]

I have taken heavy cycles of Proviron only for 6 weeks. No hairloss. Also taken AndroHard which converts to DHT. No hairloss.

I did this while dealing with PFS. Nonetheless no hair change and good improvements in baselines back then.

I did talk to some other guys taking it and some of them had hairloss. So different cases for different people.

How are you doing with PFS? Got better?

 

[Charger]

@Hans

Mann responded to this article:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMWvPe5PQCg

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I have taken heavy cycles of Proviron only for 6 weeks. No hairloss. Also taken AndroHard which converts to DHT. No hairloss.

I did this while dealing with PFS. Nonetheless no hair change and good improvements in baselines back then.

I did talk to some other guys taking it and some of them had hairloss. So different cases for different people.

PFS is characterized by low tissue 5-AR and generally reduced sensitivity to androgens, which slows down hair loss and you react differently to a lot of androgenic things (worse). I didn't lose much from Proviron or Tamoxifen.

But now that I'm much more androgen sensitive overall, just adding zinc and thyroid and my hair has thinned a fuckton lately... It's almost mindblowing.

 

[Mrscorpion360]

Kevin Mann attacked me in one of his vids a while ago, saying that DHT is a trash hormone and that I don't know what I'm talking about. He clearly believes that DHT is harmful and that finasteride is awesome, despite a ton of scientific papers and anecdotes showing that DHT is very much needed and that finasteride has nasty side effects.

It's a bit overdue, but I wrote an article showing the research that DHT isn't causing hair loss and that it can even promote hair regrowth.

Why DHT doesn't cause hair loss » TESTONATION

There is too much we don’t know to claim that DHT causes hair loss. There are also too many paradoxes and it’s much too reductionistic for DHT alone to cause/contribute to hair loss. General knowledge has risen to the point where a lot of independent researchers on the internet are saying that...

men-elite.com

Honestly when I first discovered Danny roddy’s videos for the first time last year and learning about DHT, I remember watching Kevin Mann’s videos about finasteride and DHT and he sounded very harsh and aggressive at the same time and I think I remember saying he’s crazy too? Yeah, people should avoid him at all cost in my opinion.

I love reading your articles by the way.

 

[rr1]

@Hans

Mann responded to this article:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMWvPe5PQCg

How much are Merck & Co paying this guy? It sounds like he is reading straight from their script.

 

[Zigzag]

@Mrscorpion360 No matter what his theories are, just looking at him makes me uneasy. Also that speech pattern...he speaks like a cultist.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

How much are Merck & Co paying this guy? It sounds like he is reading straight from their script.

When you're zealous about hair and don't have sides from Finasteride, you end up being an evangelist like this guy.

I was zealous too, but got ****88 up during and after the drug. Now I'm just Norwooding the same way as everyone else.
Amazing how powerless you are against AGA. While I hate antiandrogens, they really are the first line of defense. If you can't use them, there's generally not much else that can help you.

 

[rr1]

When you're zealous about hair and don't have sides from Finasteride, you end up being an evangelist like this guy.

I was zealous too, but got ****88 up during and after the drug. Now I'm just Norwooding the same way as everyone else.
Amazing how powerless you are against AGA. While I hate antiandrogens, they really are the first line of defense. If you can't use them, there's generally not much else that can help you.

Lol.... Tell that to everyone else who has stopped their hair loss and regrown without 'antiandrogens'. The comments saying finasteride is all you can do, and nothing else will work, really get annoying after a while.

This got posted by someone in a discord group, who apparently is doing 1on1 with Danny Roddy and not using any anti androgens. Just low stress, peaty diet with milk, vitd/vitk, aspirin, lifting weights, massaging etc.

Tell this guy that if antiandrogens dont work for him, then nothing will.

Tell myself, and the MANY other people I've talked to, who have also had results just as good, that if antiandrogens don't work, then nothing will!

Also, before you try to say, "these people never had 'AGA', just diffuse thinning", please save your breath. That used to be 'funny', or something one may entertain, but not anymore.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Lol.... Tell that to everyone else who has stopped their hair loss and regrown without 'antiandrogens'. The comments saying finasteride is all you can do, and nothing else will work, really get annoying after a while.

This got posted by someone in a discord group, who apparently is doing 1on1 with Danny Roddy and not using any anti androgens. Just low stress, peaty diet with milk, vitd/vitk, aspirin, lifting weights, massaging etc.
View attachment 25400View attachment 25401
Tell this guy that if antiandrogens dont work for him, then nothing will.

Tell myself, and the MANY other people I've talked to, who have also had results just as good, that if antiandrogens don't work, then nothing will!

Also, before you try to say, "these people never had 'AGA', just diffuse thinning", please save your breath. That used to be 'funny', or something one may entertain, but not anymore.

Great. You should tell them to make a thread here (in fact I'm surprised we don't have one already, after what, 9 years of this forum?) with pictures and detailing everything they're doing. It would help the rest of us who are apparently too dumb to figure it out, because for myself most things 'Peaty' only accelerate hair loss, much less stop it.

Until I see something like that I'm going to remain skeptical.

 

[Mister]

Anyone who actually thinks DHT is a "trash hormone" is completely retarded.

 

[Jerkboy]

How are you doing with PFS? Got better?

Yes I am doing well in all regards (libido, attraction to women, personality, drive). It took me a while (3-4 years).

As for DHT being a trash hormone, it is a way too simplistic judgement of a hormone. Clearly someone uneducated whoever says this. Why would you even listen to people like this? DHT is an awesome hormone as for the effects it has. Probably just needs to be balanced just like all other hormones. Whether DHT is the cause or not. Too high not good, too low not good.

I don't think it is good to put any hormone on a pedestral or to demonise because they all have functions in the body.

That is where I think Ray Peat and his followers' idea that estrogen is always bad and that serotonin is evil is simply wrong. It is the same thing that this Kevin Mann does. Absolutes.

 

[Jerkboy]

Anyone who actually thinks DHT is a "trash hormone" is completely retarded.

Agreed.

 

[Mister]

Yes I am doing well in all regards (libido, attraction to women, personality, drive). It took me a while (3-4 years).

That's great to hear! What were the things that made you better?

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Lol.... Tell that to everyone else who has stopped their hair loss and regrown without 'antiandrogens'. The comments saying finasteride is all you can do, and nothing else will work, really get annoying after a while.

This got posted by someone in a discord group, who apparently is doing 1on1 with Danny Roddy and not using any anti androgens. Just low stress, peaty diet with milk, vitd/vitk, aspirin, lifting weights, massaging etc.
View attachment 25400View attachment 25401
Tell this guy that if antiandrogens dont work for him, then nothing will.

Tell myself, and the MANY other people I've talked to, who have also had results just as good, that if antiandrogens don't work, then nothing will!

Also, before you try to say, "these people never had 'AGA', just diffuse thinning", please save your breath. That used to be 'funny', or something one may entertain, but not anymore.

Looks like promising results! I would like to see comparison from the same angle though

 

[SaltiestSardine]

Looking forward to Han's rebuttal to Mann. He accused him of cherry picking abstracts to support his position of DHT not being a cause for hair loss by choosing studies that showed positives for DHT, but were not directly related to hair loss. For the time being i am all good as i have pretty long thick hair in my early thirties, but my mams and dads hair started thinning considerably a bit after that, so i am expecting it will be the case for me too. Be cool to see if there are other options out there besides anti-androgens, otherwise i will be getting pretty acquainted with Bic's. A mate of mine has been combining finasteride, peptides, dermarolling and minoxidil on an utterly trash diet and he's been getting some considerable hair growth in a little under 18months. He was pretty chubby to begin with so he has personally said that he is not bothered about any of the anti-androgenic effects and reported very little issues with EQ

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I just honest to God hope that this prolactin inhibition drug works, then we can put this whole ridiculous debate to rest...

Everyone wants to keep their hair, nobody wants to lose their masculinity, but people are largely forced to compromise on one or the other...

Opening up a whole other treatment angle would change the game. I heard from the guys experimenting with PRLR inhibitors that the side effects are largely positive - better sleep, more energy, vivid sex dreams, lol. Imagine a hair loss drug with positive side effects for a change... mind-blowing.

 

[rr1]

I just honest to God hope that this prolactin inhibition drug works, then we can put this whole ridiculous debate to rest...

Everyone wants to keep their hair, nobody wants to lose their masculinity, but people are largely forced to compromise on one or the other...

Opening up a whole other treatment angle would change the game. I heard from the guys experimenting with PRLR inhibitors that the side effects are largely positive - better sleep, more energy, vivid sex dreams, lol. Imagine a hair loss drug with positive side effects for a change... mind-blowing.

How is this drug supposed to work? Isn't a big thing that Peat talks about how to lower prolactin naturally?

When I first started over a year ago my prolactin levels were around 8, they have now dropped to a bit over 2. Why do people need a drug for this?
Or am I missing something?

 

[Hans]

Honestly when I first discovered Danny roddy’s videos for the first time last year and learning about DHT, I remember watching Kevin Mann’s videos about finasteride and DHT and he sounded very harsh and aggressive at the same time and I think I remember saying he’s crazy too? Yeah, people should avoid him at all cost in my opinion.

I love reading your articles by the way.

Thanks man!

 

[MyUsernameHere]

How is this drug supposed to work? Isn't a big thing that Peat talks about how to lower prolactin naturally?

When I first started over a year ago my prolactin levels were around 8, they have now dropped to a bit over 2. Why do people need a drug for this?
Or am I missing something?

The pituitary PRL secretion can be inhibited by use of bromocriptine and other dopamine receptor 2 agonists (Nature Clinical Practice Endocrinology and Metabolism 2(10): 571-581, 2006). These agents, however, do not suppress extrapituitary PRL synthesis that can compensate successfully for the inhibition of pituitary PRL synthesis leading to almost unimpaired PRLR-mediated signaling (Endocrine Reviews 19:225-268, 1998).
(WO2019011719A1 - Prolactin receptor antibody for male and female pattern hair loss - Google Patents)

---

Hair follicles synthesize their own prolactin which remains unphased by common means of reducing systemic prolactin. BAY 1158061 is a prolactin receptor antibody which effectively neutralizes PRL inside of the cell. The hair growth trials showed it continued to work even for months after quitting the drug, so clearly it does something that just taking B6 or Bromo cannot do.

I guess we could debate what the reason is for prolactin being a problem in the follicles but as long as it gives people who can't tolerate antiandrogens an alternative with less side effects (or positive ones), I'm not going to be too fussed whether it's the "right" way of fixing this.

 

[Hans]

Looking forward to Han's rebuttal to Mann. He accused him of cherry picking abstracts to support his position of DHT not being a cause for hair loss by choosing studies that showed positives for DHT, but were not directly related to hair loss. For the time being i am all good as i have pretty long thick hair in my early thirties, but my mams and dads hair started thinning considerably a bit after that, so i am expecting it will be the case for me too. Be cool to see if there are other options out there besides anti-androgens, otherwise i will be getting pretty acquainted with Bic's. A mate of mine has been combining finasteride, peptides, dermarolling and minoxidil on an utterly trash diet and he's been getting some considerable hair growth in a little under 18months. He was pretty chubby to begin with so he has personally said that he is not bothered about any of the anti-androgenic effects and reported very little issues with EQ

I'm not going to write any rebuttal for him since he's incredibly childish and attacks people on a personal level, so he does deserve any attention. What I am going to do is keep on writing about the importance of DHT and the harms of finasteride; lest anyone else turn out like him.