How bad is finasteride?

[Jremy25]

Yup, was sceptical for a very long time. But a couple of guys on the whatsapp group ordered from him and both got their products, they even showed pictures of the product. One of them who ordered was Pete (if you're in the whatsapp group you will know him) and at first he thought he was scammed because it took so long for alphagels to answer his mails and took 5 weeks if I recall correctly for it to get delivered too, seems alphagels is very busy and gets many orders. So yeah that's good news, lol I thought he scammed Pete too since it took a week for alphagels to reply to his mail but all good in the end.

@Jremy25 also ordered with alphagels and is happy with his results.

But remember you can also make your own dht gel but I have no idea how to do this properly.

It’s been working well for me for both shrinking my gyno and for PE. My nipple puffyness is almost completely gone and the gland underneath feels 80% smaller after 4 months of use.

 

[golder]

Another option would be to use a nonsteroidal antiandrogen, such as pyrilutamide.

Great idea. Where on Earth do we find this? I’ve seen a few people mention RU5881 on hair loss forums….is that also an example of a nonsteroidal antiandrogen?

 

[Mister]

It’s been working well for me for both shrinking my gyno and for PE. My nipple puffyness is almost completely gone and the gland underneath feels 80% smaller after 4 months of use.

Has your libido improved too?

 

[wildworld1992]

Remarkably, combination of DHT and the E. ulmoides extract in the presence of the AR led to increases in AR-mediated reporter gene expression ranging from 112% to 204%, even at saturating levels of DHT (figure (figure8).8). This potentiating effect was a tripartite synergism between the AR protein, its cognate steroidal ligand and E. ulmoides's extract. This is highly unusual as normally, androgen-mediated AR transcriptional capacity, akin to all ligand-dependent steroid receptors, plateaus at saturating doses of its cognate ligand. A similar synergistic effect was observed when E. ulmoides extract was tested in combination with estradiol in the presence of the estrogen receptor (ER) α (figure (figure99).

Does this mean the E. ulmoides extract cause AR overexpression？I think we pfser already have AR overexpression？

 

[jondoeuk]

Great idea. Where on Earth do we find this? I’ve seen a few people mention RU5881 on hair loss forums….is that also an example of a nonsteroidal antiandrogen?

Yes, RU is another nonsteroidal antiandrogen. You can also buy both

Pyrilutamide: PyriPure

RU: RuDerma

 

[golder]

Yes, RU is another nonsteroidal antiandrogen. You can also buy both

Pyrilutamide: PyriPure

RU: RuDerma

Thanks!

 

[grambo]

I would recommend between 150-200 mg per day. You should only expect around 30-40% uptake so it sounds like a lot more than it is. I would also do this for at least 4 weeks.

The thing about DHT is that I always experience a pretty strong rebound in terms of steroidogenesis around 2-3 weeks after stopping. I actually think that this is probably due to its suppression of estrogenic activity. So, despite being mildly suppressive to the HPTA due to androgenic stimulation, it might actually kind of act in a manner similar to a SERM for a short period of time once it is discontinued.

My anecdote. I think this protocol was suggested in the PFS HCG thread. In October I did 14 days of 5mg oxandrolone 4x daily + 5mg metandienone 2x daily (just for some Test/estrogen, ala @olive HRT protocol, var drops my E too much). After those two weeks I stopped androgens, then took nothing for the following 14 days. On day 15 I started HCG @ 100i.u. I.M. per day for 14 days.

It was successful for about 2 weeks after my last HCG dose. Morning wood, sexual dreams, mental clarity, aggression, music starting to sound good, etc. The music thing may not sound like much if you haven't experienced losing all interest/feelings when listening to pieces that would move you profoundly in the distant past. I keep track of things like this in relation to my endocrine function.

I'll make some adjustments (doses, duration) and try this protocol again. Your thoughts? I have a script for oxandrolone & HCG, so they are real & pharma grade if anyone is wondering.

 

[Mister]

My anecdote. I think this protocol was suggested in the PFS HCG thread. In October I did 14 days of 5mg oxandrolone 4x daily + 5mg metandienone 2x daily (just for some Test/estrogen, ala @olive HRT protocol, var drops my E too much). After those two weeks I stopped androgens, then took nothing for the following 14 days. On day 15 I started HCG @ 100i.u. I.M. per day for 14 days.

It was successful for about 2 weeks after my last HCG dose. Morning wood, sexual dreams, mental clarity, aggression, music starting to sound good, etc. The music thing may not sound like much if you haven't experienced losing all interest/feelings when listening to pieces that would move you profoundly in the distant past. I keep track of things like this in relation to my endocrine function.

I'll make some adjustments (doses, duration) and try this protocol again. Your thoughts? I have a script for oxandrolone & HCG, so they are real & pharma grade if anyone is wondering.

Damn, sounds great man! Please keep us updated

 

[AinmAnseo]

The PSSD patients likely experienced the same issue because it probably is the same issue. Dopaminergic function seems to be at the center stage of both of these conditions. It may just be that they're induced in two different ways. With PFS, you're disrupting dopaminergic signaling by disrupting the protective anti-estrogenic, anti-progestogenic, anti-prolactinogenic effects that DHT has and this likely leads to permanent changes in the regulatory areas of the brain that prevents both central signaling that leads to expression of 5AR and also signaling which is responsible for normal steroidogenesis. With PSSD, you may be reaching a similar state, but by directly interfering with dopaminergic function rather that doing it via 5AR/DHT. There seems to be an almost interdependent relationship between DHT and dopaminergic signaling, where both are required for both of their own sustained existence and, if you knock one of them out, they both go.

This is also probably why I've consistently experienced better sleep, a change in perception of time, and very clear and vivid dreams when taking DHT. When I say a change in perception of time, I mean that the day feels significantly longer. I also slept significantly less time while feeling as if I slept significantly longer. So, I would sleep maybe 6 hours, but feel like I had just slept 10-12 hours with multiple vivid dreams.

I also experienced significantly better digestion and gut motility from the DHT.

As far as dose, all I can say is that when I fully recovered from PFS 4 years ago, I used about a gram/week for around 3 weeks. Unfortunately, I never tried using that much in the past 2-3 years, but it still had the effects I mentioned above... It just likely didn't push me into recovery because I didn't use it long enough to begin reversal of the epigenetic changes that lead to PFS in the first place. I used about a gram the last time, but only used it for maybe 8 or 9 days and then ran out. That, alone, was enough to improve digestion and sleep for a short period of time and, a couple weeks after stopping, it was also enough to induce a strong rebound effect on the HPTA and I had testicular pain/soreness and higher steroidogenesis, faster/thicker facial hair growth and oily skin.

I think the key to getting out of this state is to expose yourself to enough DHT or 5a-reduced androgen for long enough to induce epigenetic changes so that when you do stop using it and when you do experience a rebound in steroidogenesis, it becomes self-sustaining rather than reverting back to the previous state where estrogenic and prolactinogenic activity dominate androgenic and dopaminergic activity, respectively. You're just using DHT like training wheels to get your body to reestablish/restore signaling and feedback mechanisms which are responsible for sustaining 5AR expression and dopaminergic signaling for regulation of estrogenic activity, as well as regulation of prolactinogenic activity.

If I had simply taken DHT for much longer at least one of the few times I've used it in the past couple years, it's very probable that I wouldn't still be in this state. So, try a 4 week cycle and then see what happens. You should get the HPTA rebound 2-3 weeks after stopping, you should experience testicular discomfort and even increase in testicular volume, and things should continue improving and maintaining thereafter. If you feel like you're slipping back into the state you were in previously, get back on it and try again until it sticks.

Where did you get your DHT from?