If finasteride is really horrible for us, then what else can we really do to combat androgenic alopecia?

[helpmyhair]

So I know Finasteride gets a lot of hate around her. I myself am afraid to try it based off the horror stories I've heard. However there are many many people on the r/tressless forum on reddit that use it, have minimal side effects and really great results. Some get maintenance with it, and others get crazy amounts of regrowth.

So it seems to definitely work for hairloss for a large majority. But if its so bad for us, what is our alternative? Unfortunately Peating isn't enough to stop it. I've tried the natural supplement Saw Palmetto but got side effects similar to finasteride so I quickly stopped.

We definitely need something that is both safe and very effective.

 

[JamesGatz]

But how do you know they have "minimal side effects" when taking finasteride? People say this all the time as a coping mechanism

Its not possible to have "minimal effects" taking a drug that obliterates 5AR,

I had a stint with both Saw Palmetto and Finasteride before I found RP - if Saw Palmetto bothered you, then Finasteride will tear down your world

The DHT/5AR theory is ridiculously easy to disprove, Peating does solve hair loss but most people on RP aren't really as metabolically healthy as they would like to think, Reducing PUFA is merely one variable in a whole Jungle of variables that affect your metabolism

If you are suffering from hair loss, your metabolism is unable to support hair growth

You can prove to yourself its not DHT or 5AR by taking DHT directly or taking substances that increase 5AR (Tobacco and Caffeine both increase 5AR and these both improve hair health quite a bit), its not a one-hit solution, but it puts you in the right frame of mind to solve the issue via metabolism

Hair loss is caused by stress, thus any supplement that reduces stress (which subsequently increases DHT) will improve hair growth

And by the way hair follicles are never gone, they are always still there, they just get minimized when you go bald, they are always there and are stimulated by stem cells (from healthy metabolism) to be restored to their original thickness

 

[Herbie]

@helpmyhair what have you been doing since you joined in 2017? I mean how has your diet and lifestyle changed since starting?

The word castration is synonymous with finasteride.

 

[AspiringSage]

I had a prescription for finasteride (before I learned anything about the endocrine system, discovered Ray Peats work, developed more knowledge of metabolism, etc). I only took it for about a month, maybe a month and a half. I experienced depression, low libido, impaired sexual function and wrecked sleep for months thereafter.

I wish I’d never touched the stuff, it’s literal hormonal poison. Some people never recover. I understand the distress of hair loss. If you are looking for a pharmaceutical solution then consider topical minoxidil paired with a pine or coal tar shampoo. They are much safer and are very effective in my experience.

Even adding in alternating use of ketoconazole shampoo, with the coal tar and minoxidil, should have a better safety profile than finasteride and I don’t say that lightly as some ketoconazole is absorbed and goes systemic where it’s harsh on the liver.

 

[helpmyhair]

I had a prescription for finasteride (before I learned anything about the endocrine system, discovered Ray Peats work, developed more knowledge of metabolism, etc). I only took it for about a month, maybe a month and a half. I experienced depression, low libido, impaired sexual function and wrecked sleep for months thereafter.

I wish I’d never touched the stuff, it’s literal hormonal poison. Some people never recover. I understand the distress of hair loss. If you are looking for a pharmaceutical solution then consider topical minoxidil paired with a pine or coal tar shampoo. They are much safer and are very effective in my experience.

Even adding in alternating use of ketoconazole shampoo, with the coal tar and minoxidil, should have a better safety profile than finasteride and I don’t say that lightly as some ketoconazole is absorbed and goes systemic where it’s harsh on the liver.

I've also been afraid to try minoxidil because I hear it can give heart palpations/increased heart rate among other side effects. Have you tried it before? What was your experience like? I also hear that when you stop minoxidil, all the regrowth you got from it falls out quickly. In edition, its not stopping the cause of hairloss, so eventually it'll likely stop working.

 

[AspiringSage]

I've also been afraid to try minoxidil because I hear it can give heart palpations/increased heart rate among other side effects. Have you tried it before? What was your experience like? I also hear that when you stop minoxidil, all the regrowth you got from it falls out quickly. In edition, its not stopping the cause of hairloss, so eventually it'll likely stop working.

I’ve been using topical minoxidil for several years with great results, I am in my mid 30’s. I’ve run out a few times or taken a month or two off simply because I hadn’t gotten around to ordering more of it. I didn’t experience crazy shedding, just a slight increase until I picked up some more minoxidil. An older friend in his 50’s has been using minoxidil for over twenty years, he still has great hair.

I haven’t noticed any measurable impact on heart rate from topical minoxidil. I have tried a few small oral doses (of the topical liquid) simply as an experiment. I noticed a mild stress response and measured slight increase in heart rate. Personally, I consider topical minoxidil use safe and would approach oral use with caution. Given the increase in heart rate and apparent mild stress response, I wouldn’t consider anything above very small oral doses. I haven’t felt the need to repeat my oral experiments since the topical results have been so good.

Don’t discount a good coal or pine tar shampoo. I’ve had good results from a commercial 3% coal tar shampoo MG217 and have experimented with making my own coal tar shampoo from a USP grade coal tar. I also intermittently use ketoconazole shampoo. But I don’t like the shampoo it’s available in commercially (might simply need to look around for a different one) and I consider it semi toxic. So, risk aversion drove me to moderate my use of ketoconazole shampoo after I got my hair loss stabilized.

It’s also worth considering that hair loss is related to blood flow in micro vessels and metabolic function. How’s your T3/T4? Whats your body temp/TSH? How’s your blood pressure? Are you absolutely sure you get enough b vitamins? How’s your prolactin level?

 

[golder]

I have no intention of taking finasteride, but I’m extremely curious how many people have found some results using it? It goes against my intuition that it would have any benefit whatsoever, but I’ve seen some impartial before and afters that have shown some regrown ground that obviously aren’t selling anything, and otherwise have no agenda. It goes against the grain of this forum, but can someone help me understand how it could possibly help?

 

[Xemnoraq]

Honestly someone should try just applying liquid DHT or testosterone to their scalp and see if that regrows it, id be willing to try it but cant find any

 

[jondoeuk]

I had a prescription for finasteride (before I learned anything about the endocrine system, discovered Ray Peats work, developed more knowledge of metabolism, etc). I only took it for about a month, maybe a month and a half. I experienced depression, low libido, impaired sexual function and wrecked sleep for months thereafter.

I wish I’d never touched the stuff, it’s literal hormonal poison. Some people never recover. I understand the distress of hair loss. If you are looking for a pharmaceutical solution then consider topical minoxidil paired with a pine or coal tar shampoo. They are much safer and are very effective in my experience.

Even adding in alternating use of ketoconazole shampoo, with the coal tar and minoxidil, should have a better safety profile than finasteride and I don’t say that lightly as some ketoconazole is absorbed and goes systemic where it’s harsh on the liver.

Minoxidil is a growth stimulant, but doesn't target the underlying cause, unlike finasteride.

 

[jondoeuk]

Topical is one option. From this: ''The main finding of the study was that the change from baseline in hair count was significantly greater with topical finasteride than placebo, and similar to that observed with oral finasteride. This result was achieved with markedly lower systemic exposure to finasteride and less impact on serum DHT concentrations compared with oral finasteride. Topical finasteride was well tolerated and had a safety profile not meaningfully different from that of placebo. As such, topical finasteride appears to be a useful option for treatment of AGA in men.'' https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jdv.17738

Another would be to use a nonsteroidal antiandrogen.

 

[AspiringSage]

Minoxidil is a growth stimulant, but doesn't target the underlying cause, unlike finasteride.

While mainstream medicine is all wound around a model where DHT is the primary cause of male pattern hair loss, I am not convinced that it’s quite that simple. I suspect that male otters hair loss is multifactorial. In my case, minoxidil and metallic improvements (mostly thyroid) have halted my hair loss and produced significant thickening and regrowth. So, I am very happy with topical minoxidil + coal tar shampoo and occasional ketoconazole shampoo as a treatment for now.

I’d also rather be bald than risk taking oral finasteride again.

 

[golder]

Topical is one option. From this: ''The main finding of the study was that the change from baseline in hair count was significantly greater with topical finasteride than placebo, and similar to that observed with oral finasteride. This result was achieved with markedly lower systemic exposure to finasteride and less impact on serum DHT concentrations compared with oral finasteride. Topical finasteride was well tolerated and had a safety profile not meaningfully different from that of placebo. As such, topical finasteride appears to be a useful option for treatment of AGA in men.'' https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jdv.17738

Another would be to use a nonsteroidal antiandrogen.

Can anyone help me understand how finasteride could increase hair count like it has done in this study?

 

[Darkmortal]

Can anyone help me understand how finasteride could increase hair count like it has done in this study?

Just put it on your scalp dude

 

[golder]

Just put it on your scalp dude

Thanks for the helpful advice mate.

 

[JamesGatz]

The Norwood REAPER is coming for YOU GUYS - and blocking DHT won't save you FROM HIS WRATH

I CAN SAVE YOU FROM THE NORWOOD REAPER GUYS

 

[Xemnoraq]

the norwood reaper hahahaha man hair loss ******* blows, I definitely do think that scalp massage and exercise is very helpful and loosing the calcified tissue and improving blood flow to the scalp, i do that and i've managed to somewhat stabilize my hair loss i feel, sometimes i see baby hairs sprout up, i was rapidly loosing my hair in the past but i think ive somewhat froze it potentially regrown some potentially gotten worse its hard to say

 

[BrianF]

Anyone use topical finasteride?

 

[Darkmortal]

View attachment 49307

The Norwood REAPER is coming for YOU GUYS - and blocking DHT won't save you FROM HIS WRATH

I CAN SAVE YOU FROM THE NORWOOD REAPER GUYS

Glory be to our savior

 

[Mister]

Alternative is (multiple) hair transplants.


And tressless is full of literal idiots and fools. Btw, finasteride does more than just block 70% of DHT...


Read this:

How Merck buried finasteride’s full impact on hormone signaling

Steroid synthesis in the brain

finasterideinfo.org

 

[FitnessMike]

But how do you know they have "minimal side effects" when taking finasteride? People say this all the time as a coping mechanism

Its not possible to have "minimal effects" taking a drug that obliterates 5AR,

I had a stint with both Saw Palmetto and Finasteride before I found RP - if Saw Palmetto bothered you, then Finasteride will tear down your world

The DHT/5AR theory is ridiculously easy to disprove, Peating does solve hair loss but most people on RP aren't really as metabolically healthy as they would like to think, Reducing PUFA is merely one variable in a whole Jungle of variables that affect your metabolism

If you are suffering from hair loss, your metabolism is unable to support hair growth

You can prove to yourself its not DHT or 5AR by taking DHT directly or taking substances that increase 5AR (Tobacco and Caffeine both increase 5AR and these both improve hair health quite a bit), its not a one-hit solution, but it puts you in the right frame of mind to solve the issue via metabolism

Hair loss is caused by stress, thus any supplement that reduces stress (which subsequently increases DHT) will improve hair growth

And by the way hair follicles are never gone, they are always still there, they just get minimized when you go bald, they are always there and are stimulated by stem cells (from healthy metabolism) to be restored to their original thickness

I love this response, it so explains everything you need on the hair lose matter.