Clinical Context To Ray's Theoretical Context

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@RedStaR
I am actually a huge fan of raw goat milk kefir made with traditional kefir grains. Idk how I missed that in my original post. I drink about a quart daily of it lately. I think yogurt is ok, but usually they heat yogurt up to give it consistency and they kill the bacteria by doing this so they add in industrial cultures that I dont think populate the gut well. If you can get a raw yogurt that wasnt heated and more ideally a raw goat kefir with traditional grains I think that would help alot. Keep in mind tho if you have a dysbiosis and you use the kefir you will get what the alternative medical world (the woo woo world haha) calls die off. I had an ulcer in my colon and +4 klebsiella and fixed it with kefir, raw milk, liver, mussel, oyster, shrimp, honey and an occassional carrot (the carrot was to bulk my stool, after a while unless you drink copious amounts of milk you wont form much stool. Its not constipation in the sense of your stool is impacted in the colon as much as it is lack of stool to actually expel). I avoid starch, PUFA and most plant foods besides some root veggies (less toxins, alot of cellulose which in studies seems to be the only fiber that is protective) and some fruit if ripe and in season.
 

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Love this thread. :10:
 

Xisca

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Good thinking logic for this long post, thanks! It is the same for all linear thinking and writing, you cannot get it all, because nobody can talk in a way that looks like a view at a genealogy tree! Some people have success with very different diets all over the world, and who know why....
1) Genetics account for a very minor fraction of illness
They account for more. This common asiatic mutation about alcohol for example (canit be why they do not eat that much fruits?), or problem with K2 in food causing blod clot, and my own tests shows me that the way we convert elements into others largely is coded by hormones. So, the way we eliminate garbage is partly dependent on our genetics. Then of course some genes express or not, and this is lotery, or maybe the nervous system too?
-trauma (this one doesn't really count as I don't think its representative of a large percentage of chronic disease)
This one, I have studied long enough to tell you that I believe the reverse and that you will find a lot of interest in it when you change your perception or definition of what is trauma! All that happened from our conception resulted in some adaptation of the nervous system, endocrine system, and mineral content and location in the body.
Just notice that a c-section is a trauma and that any poisoning by chemical is a trauma for the body too.
Just notice that nerves innervate the guts too. Nobody can have a good digestion without a resilient ANS.
The fact that a body will fight and get rid of what causes disease like infections, depends a lot on the nervous system and the pH of all the digestive track, with the alternance of acid and base that kill pathogenes.
But how can you understand "the self" or "the ego" if the ego hasnt been developed yet. The ascendance to the awareness of "the ego" requires first the development and instatement of the ego. For the idea of the individual to exist, there must be an idea of the collective. For the negative, there must be the positive until we realize that really isn't either...
The ego develops very early, as it is in a way the consequence of trauma! Being a sinner is also a consequence of trauma...

What are your thoughts on the sterile gut theory that Peat talks about?
Peat's idea of a sterile gut I think is in reference to the small intestine, which although not entirely sterile, in comparison to the large intestine has significantly less bacterial counts.
I hope that now all members will keep this in mind, because I have felt many times that people were thinking of the total gut instead of the small! And apendicitis is a bad thing happening to the colon.
 

Xisca

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I am actually a huge fan of raw goat milk kefir made with traditional kefir grains.
When I read this, I agree with the use of dairy products!
 
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Other things to keep in mind are animals that are fermenters (ruminants, chimps, gorillas, etc) develop dysbios and disease from grains and starch.

They don't know how to cook starch. Humans are high amylase producers and through the process of hydrolysis we use starch uniquely as a species in a special way.

"Whenever you hear a discussion of starch and what starch is and where you find starch, the discussion is always in regards to starch in the plant. But starch in the plant is useless unless it’s cooked. We don’t efficiently digest raw starch. Starchy foods must be cooked in water to reach the gelatinization point, usually a temperature slightly below the boiling point of water. It’s here where starch granules absorb water and burst into the soft and fluffy texture that our digestive system can handle. This is starch on the plate (or in the bowl) where it has its effect. However, drive off the water with the high temperatures and dry conditions of baking or frying, and starch loses its unique function. Baked and fried starches are effectively sugars in that they supply glucose to blood but fail to enhance the response of muscle cells to insulin. The reason is simple. Starch-digesting enzymes work only from the end of the starch chain, disassembling the chain in packman-like fashion, signaling the muscles to absorb more glucose from the blood in response to insulin. Baking and frying temperatures shatter the chain, disrupting this signal. Glucose is still provided but without the direction to increase its utilization by muscles. So in reality, the fourth macronutrient is the one we as a species created and adapted to--boiled starch. Only in this form can starch perform its critical function."
 
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@Xisca
I think the genetic component comes into play in increasing percentage in the disease state. My original statement was for a context of being in the non-diseased state to start. The reason I chose this context was to show that genetics for the most part arent the direct cause of disease but contributors along the way. Peat talks about keeping metabolism as high as possible to prevent the genetic and epigenetic effects from taking hold. I would tend to look at genetics, for simplicities sake as a sliding scale. The less optimal your health is, the more the genetic components come into play. With the analogy of the chain I originally used, the more stress thats applied on the chain the more pressure dispersed on the weakest links (the genetic abberrations) I think over generations if peoples metabolisms are kept high these mutations will begin to be phased out, first from an epigenetic standpoint and then from a dirext genetic standpoint. So xisca you are correct and I thank you for the statmenet, it has allowed me to better elaborate my point. I also want to state here that when I talk about keeping the metabolic rate high I mean to get to a point for your body where u have very little metabolic inhibition going on (basically taking the brakes off). The things I see as brakes are PUFA, endotoxin, heavy metals, nutrient deficiencies. I dont mean to get the metabolism high with coffee and exogenous hormones etc. I mean to get the body to the state where it is at a high metabolism such that the metabolic pathways are optimized by removal of barriers as mentioned above. Keep in mind I dont think those things are bad, I was just creating a context with my definition to better elucidate my point. (I dont want people to read my post and go jack up thier metabolism with coffee, sucrose and exogenous hormones because I said "high metabolism" is better hahah).

In regards to trauma, I was thinking getting hit by a car or getting shot. I work as a nurse so I guess I assumed the definition of trauma was those things. I do think surgeries are traumatic tho and often not only not neccessary but damaging, I agree with the c-section statement thats why I listed it. (Tangent: In school I worked in a maternity ward for a semester and the doctor would schedule all the mothers to have induced labors and c-sections on one day so he could handle 9 pregnancies on tuesday and do office hours on wednesday. It was about the doctors convenience and the mothers desire to have the baby in a specific month so she could go on vacation the next month. The practice is really abused and often unneccesary. I saw 2 c sections in person, actually assisted in one.. (not my proudest moment, but I had to as I was in school and if I wanted to be there I had to do what I was told haha)) Interesting how experience changes perspective. In regards to the other area of trauma mentioned (mental trauma) I think thats dependent on metabolic health, mostly gut health. In one year my parents divorced, i became estranged from my mother and sister, my aunt got diagnosed with cancer, I got a major skin infection that lasted for 2 months in my groin......., i broke up with my gf (sex and skin infections in the groin arenr very compatible haha), lost my best friend because of his cocaine addiction and with all this almost dropped out of school. Whats interesting about this is I went to a therapist (note not a psychologist or a psychiatrist) to help deal with the stress (i went into a depression) but the therapy didnt help much. What helped was changing my diet interestingly enough. When I switched more towards a peat diet from my plantain, red meat and green vegetable diet all this issues seemed to be non-issues. My parents divorce, my skin infection, my lost friendship, my estrangement all became good things, or things that didnt bother me. I stopped trying to solve everything and focus on every little issue with therapy because these "stressors" didnt matter anymore, they didnt mean quite as much. My friend, mom and sis, where toxic relationships that needed to go. My parents divorce, a blessing for the whole family. My skin infection a wake up call for my gut issue and poor lifestyle. My aunts cancer, not a suprise considering she smokes 2 packs a day, works shift work, eats one meal a day at mcdonalds, a pizza shop or a takeout chinese shop and works as a cleaning lady with toxic chemicals all day long. My point with all of this is that, the ability to handle a stressor I think is dependent upon metabolic state. The labeling of "stressor" or "trauma" is dependent upon metabolic state. Obviously accumulating small things become large things all together but the threshold is dependent upon where you are metabolically. Its the terrain not the microbe is something I think was stated by pasteur, i think this is similar for mental stressors to some extent.

My ego statment was in relation to societal development. In order for society to trascend ego, it first needs to go through a period of being enveloped in ego. The concept of "sinner" is an egotistical concept to some extent, there is an implied right and wrong in the idea of sinner. In the more advanced buddhist texts of the yoga dogen the practitioner partakes in alcohol and sex in a sense to recognize the lack of polarity. Throughout previous yoga all must be given up only to return later on to what has been given up to understand the lack of polarity and attachment. To partake in alchohol and sex yet to not attach is more difficult than to abstain altogether although difficulty is not the point haha. A little esoteric to discuss in writing for me, I prefer conversation to flush out thought processes.

Yes nothing is sterile. Bacteria are everywhere. Ecosystem is more important than sterility. The germ theory is akin to the malarial "bad air" theory at this point.
 
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Although finding raw milk hasn't been that difficult, finding raw goat's milk or milk from A2 Cows is extremely difficult (and expensive), in my experience.



I was part of a buying club in north Dallas where someone would drive to a raw dairy in Kemp and pick up milk for a bunch of people. No idea on the legality of that. Here's what I could find of the law:

Grade A raw milk “may be sold by the producer directly to the consumer only at the point of production, i.e., at the farm.” 25 TAC §217.32.
Do you still have the contact info for that buying group @dfspcc20? That could be crazy good. I am near downtown.
 

Xisca

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Its the terrain not the microbe is something I think was stated by pasteur
lol this was said by his oponent!
Pasteur is responsable for pasteurisation.... :)
 
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@Westside PUFAs
I knew you would refute my starch statement eventually. Perhaps starch works for some people, I usually appreciate your statements on understandings on starch. I think you probablt undersrand it better than I. Thanks for joining the thread.

In colonic length they discuss a range in length for humans. I think africans in particular have longer colons than europeans from what I remember. If you look at the traditional african diets online they eat alot of starch, same with asians with rice. I think they may be better adapted to the starch and know how to prepare it better than we do. Amylase copies vary greatly in the population. Also a gut dysbiosis may set u up with an issue with starch regardless of amylase (#formula_feeding_for_the_advancement_of_humanity) . I ate high amylopectin white rice. I pressure cooked it (perhaps this is wrong based on what your saying) and it did not sit well with me over time (brain fog, klebsiella in the colon, weight gain, tongue coating etc.). I personally prefer fruit and honey. Also, I am a white northern/ southern european mix. My family is from mostly northern italy, but also northern spain, ireland, england and northern france so it could just be me. Context is important as always. Hence the neccesity of experimentation.
 
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Xisca

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The labeling of "stressor" or "trauma" is dependent upon metabolic state. Obviously accumulating small things become large things all together but the threshold is dependent upon where you are metabolically. Its the terrain not the microbe is something I think was stated by pasteur, i think this is similar for mental stressors to some extent.
If you had enough resiliency, - and I guess you had - just some more energy was enough to overcome the family problems, but it is not at all the case for everybody, according to the past events and state of resilience.
I do have the category called prenatal trauma, and I just notice so many times that it is not easy for anybody to suspect what others can handle or not!
Of course, the body is supposed to regulateitself after traumas! It does not succeed all the time... But life goes on and the body adapts... it does so by modifiying its metabolism.
And as you noticed, though you say some stresses are mental, they affected you physically, and actually that is not that much mental. If you take surgery for example, or a car accident, it does not affect only the physical part of the body, but also the NS per se. And this is enough to modify the terrain! A trauma, when really overcome, makes you stronger and more resilient, whereas a trauma that ovewhelm you does the reverse: you get weeker and less resilient. Part of it is in the bad life style, as your aunt, but part of it comes from unexpected events. It is not mental, not even emotional, or not only, as it affects all 3 levels, and it includes the body, thus health. There is no one individual who has escaped some trauma, with all the health consequences that go with it. The scale is rather different though...
 
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@Xisca
I agree, it is not seperate at all. Mental function, from what I understand seems to be a direct function of physical structure. Interestingly enough the mental energy also seems to be able to direct physical structure. My questions from this understanding is physical structure not just energy then and the tangibility of it a function of our perception? I think the body is very plastic and resilient and can reverse processes that have been set in place from stresses and traumas if the "right things" are carried out. The question is what are these "right things" and where do we break this cycle of all these interrelated variables that are in reality all one. I think peats "energy and structure are related at every level " and the paradigm he puts forth provides the theoretical context for these answers in a practical context. Although we are currently on a tangent I want to say that my original post in relation to trauma was defining trauma as car accidents and gun shot wounds etc. and assuming that these werent the underlying cause for the vast majority of chronic disease. The definition of trauma we are working with now is much more vast and for what I wanted to discuss in the original post doesnt "fit". I am happy to continue discussing this definition of trauma and its interrelations but I just wanted to clarify that. By the way are you familiar with heart centered hypnotherapy??
 

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Mental function, from what I understand seems to be a direct function of physical structure. Interestingly enough the mental energy also seems to be able to direct physical structure.
Yes and yes. But for the 2nd point, the paradox is "how to act with the cortex on the part that the cortex does not have access to?" ...basically what I have learned in SE. And with the work of Eck, I see that you can do it also with minerals.
I think the body is very plastic and resilient and can reverse processes that have been set in place from stresses and traumas if the "right things" are carried out.
In the vast majority of cases we do not reverse as much as we think... The right thing is for example what animals do when they shake during the recovery phase after a shock. Humans interfere too much with their inner wisdom and do not let themselve feel the process. It can be scaring because the body seems to escape our will.
The question is what are these "right things"
The universal big question we all have!
my original post in relation to trauma was defining trauma as car accidents and gun shot wounds etc. and assuming that these werent the underlying cause for the vast majority of chronic disease.
The word accident was more precise, though most people understand trauma in its reduced meaning, because it has been overused. If you look at the story of the word, you can be surprised!
If you include some minor accident that have more consequences than what we can imagine, you can go up the % of accidents being the cause of some chronic disease. I have a lot of issues from a fall that did not brake me anything, because it affected my respiratory diaphragm... This affects my breathing, thus my metabolism, plus nerves etc.
The definition of trauma we are working with now is much more vast
If you had used the word accident instead of trauma, I would have answered too, but for telling you that you had forgotten trauma! It is a very big root of chronic disease, very important. It is invisible though, or else it could not protect us the way it does!!!!! It can play its part just because we do not see it.... This is also what can explain that people could have a good health in traditional ways of living, even though they had very different diets. When the nervous system is strong and resilient, it protects enormeously!
By the way are you familiar with heart centered hypnotherapy??
No, only with Somatic Experiencing, though I also did the course of kinesiology and Bach flowers. SE gives much more solid and definitive results. With many techniques, I have found that the unbalance comes back. I have read also TRE, and it can work but it is not focussed the way SE is. EMDR and heart control techniques through breathing also work.
When you have good results with diet only, and with dealing with guts issues, it acts upon the autonomic system too, anyway! If you have a direct technique, it helps a lot the physical process of change in your body.

And about accidents, you can add that a manual technique moving the body if also very useful. I know people who solved migraines and asthma with such techniques, or even eczema, created by very subtle displacements in the body!

Have an adapted diet to your physiology, deal with infectious issues, have a good therapist for your fascias, and deal with the nervous system regulation, all together, and it will work better than separately!
 
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@Xisca
You are corrext perhaps I should should have used the word accidents. I will change the word to be more precise so that others hopefully wont mistake the definitions as well. Language is a funny business haha.

So with all of this, it seems I have forgotten an important piece of the puzzle: meditation, fascia and conscious breathing. I still think these all go to the same etioliolgy however in most cases. I am not aware of the somatic experiencing paradigm or Dr. Ecks works in any detail, but I have spent some time researching fascial lines and the interaction with the diaphragm. I actually think gut issues impair the interaction and function of the diaphragm/ psoas/ glutes via inflammation which are the foundation of human movement And the gateway to the subconcious and autonomic systems via the diaphragm specifically. This extends outward to every muscle in the body. From what I understand there are not singular muscles in the body per say but one fascial system with muscles woven into them. Thus the contraction of the plantar fascia is spread across the entire system from gastroc to hamstring to spinal erectors to cervical extensors to galea aponeurotica to cervical flexors etc. Thus with all of this, and as you mentioned above you see that everything is vitally intertwined. But what I see at the center of this is still intestinal issues. If the intestines are inflammed, the psoas/ glute/ diaphragm interaction is impaired from a functional perspective following the fascial line and understanding the interaction. If the diaphragm is afflicted the autonomic nervous system becomes very hard to influence with proper breathing and the ability to sink into the subconcious on a concsious level becomes impaired. In conjunction with this you have the hormonal cascade I described following serotonin and then you have factors like TLR4 causing fibrsosis with endotoxin which directly effects this fascial system that is so integral to all function (as a side note, a picture of The fascial system: an interwoven transluscent collagenous fiber network that is akin to a spiderweb of geometric shapes in a 3 dimensional plane. The foundation of all tissues of our bodies is this network such that the tissues are almost grafted onto to this network via the differentiation of the cells of this network in different areas. In some circles the seat of consciousness is thought to be housed in the fascial network as the collagen fibers create an almost fiberoptic network throughout the body. Acupuncture is also thought to work through this network, such that meridians are large channels of this network, the same with marma points in ayuverda.) heres a video to better show what I am saying for anyone interested (i think this is the correct video):
Thus, to break the cycle that both you and I are discussing I believe it starts in the gut as pointed out in the original post. Once gut inflammation is eliminated, nutrition is restored, the diaphragm, psoas and glutes can activate again, the subconcious and autonomic nervous system are abled to be accesses again and arent heightened from the serotonin cascade etc. Then all the other symptoms of this problem can be eliminated or minimized (traumas, chronic disease etc.)

Thus, the last statement in your post I agree with 100% but perhaps the intricacies are where we differ:
1) a diet adapted to your physiology: I think this more is in relation to a microbiota adapted to your diet. From what I understand Dr. Eck has different metabolic types and judged these on minerals. Perhaps the minerals and metabolic types where indications, just as hormones of where the body was physiologically and not concrete lifetime states. I think there are differneces amongst people in diet as seen with different cultures but with this I still think there is an optimal diet, and being adapted to different areas doesnt make the adapted areas ideal. For example just because you can eat starch confortably doesnt make it ideal. Also the least toxic and most nutrient dense easilt digested foods in nature are organs, shellfish, honey and maybe dairy??

2) I think infections are still a consequence of the gut as the immune system is dependent on the microbiota so strongly. I.e. If your microbiota is ideal then ur risk of infection is significantly smaller.

3) dealing with fascias can definetly help but again I think the root cause of the fascial issue is the gut as i described above. My first inclination would be to eliminate the negative stimulus on the fascia then to deal with damage i.e. blocking of TLR4 (TLR4 causes fibrosis) which reverse fibrosis.

4) meditation and breathing are very helpful (my idea of nervous system regulation). But they are much easier when the serotonin cascade is lower. They are almost effortless to maintain when the serotonin cascade is lower. I can stay aware of my stream of conscious as an observer while maintaing my autonomic tone so much easier when my gut isnt having issues (bloating, diarrhea, constipation *brain fog, etc.). Also my autonomic (sympathetic) tone is much harder to activate when my gut is better (less racing thoughts, body tensions, sweating, breath holding).
 
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Xisca

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Gut will still always be important, you are right but all is a circle, and you can enter it at many places. Why is the gut infected? And what do you do to solve it? You kill the pathos Pasteur way, or you take care of the terrain? Or both or...
There will always be more than 1 chain or 1 cascade!
Reactions in muscular chains can start from the diaphragm or coccyx but most often from feet or neck. The fluids circulate everywhere and the fascias cover everything and not only muscles, and all your sphincters are diaphragms... We just help them, sustaining them, to reorganize their movement, and it hapens by itself. Maybe that is why Peat likes art, you see what happens when you create and make a movement start...
gateway to the subconcious and autonomic systems via the diaphragm specifically.

If the diaphragm is afflicted the autonomic nervous system becomes very hard to influence with proper breathing and the ability to sink into the subconcious on a concsious level becomes impaired.

the subconcious and autonomic nervous system are abled to be accesses again and arent heightened from the serotonin cascade etc. Then all the other symptoms of this problem can be eliminated or minimized (traumas, chronic disease etc.)

while maintaing my autonomic tone

Also my autonomic (sympathetic) tone is much harder to activate

I cannot go into details about all this, but the way you said all this about the autonomic nervous system just does not work like this at all. It is autonomic! It will always activate itself, and the dead hen can even run with no head... Reverse subject and complements in your sentences and it will be closer to what happens.

Your logic is good, and it is a never ending, you will always find something new to add to it!
 

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I liked your post OP. I have come to the same conclusion about the gut. Everything in my experience leads back to it. I would say some of my biggest mistakes were carrying on something healthy that caused bloating. At this point, if it causes bloating, I don't carry on with it much longer, whatever the merits of the experiment might be.

The question is how to "reset" this as you said. Milk does not seem to react well for many people. Plus there are whole populations that deal well with starch. So the way forward is not exactly clear. However, the point is, orienting yourself towards digestive health seems to be the best bang for your buck: cypro, charcoal, cascara, carrot, etc...also, while not talked about much here, HCL and enzymes would also be good options.
 

Xisca

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while not talked about much here, HCL and enzymes would also be good options.
Yes! There is no same route for everybody. Some people will bloat with fruits and good milk. I remember somebody stabilize his guts only with white rice and chicken. Somebody I know personnaly, was yellow from Lyme disease, thus liver problem from an infection, and he recovered with instincto-therapy, and he is still raw vegan and does very well. He smells and eat what smells good to him at this precise moment.

I have guts issues, but pushing on fruits and dairies and eat often did no good to me. (I ate more than this, proteins and good fats etc)

Root cause? No c-section, breastfed 4 months.
Alcohol gases during pregnancy. I do not find pathways for propanol and isopropanol and such, but ethanol YES. Wikipedia tells you how you transform alcohol in your body. Then I am going to tell you "Ho the cause of guts issues is about liver" Do I reach something having to do with serotonine? Yes of course, and histamine. So what comes first, liver or gut?

Well, if you want to correct bugs at the correct place, the body manages this with first very acidic stomach Hcl, and then with very alkaline stuff. pH guy! Get your enzymes work properly! Enzymes BTW are involved for many things, so I would say that enzymes are even more a root than gut and any organ.

I remember a book about essential oils, and it talked about health and pH.
- Bacterias are blocked by acidity (a dish in tomato sauce keeps better)
- Fungi are blocked by alkalinity (use bleach or baking soda in your shower)

If the balance is not within a very small range, you get either one or the other. So, as OP stated infections as a root cause, I will again go down deeper in earth to the finner roots of the plant: pH balance. Then you can let your body deal with the infections. Your body already does its job, but it will do it better. Now let's look for the body pathways to regulate pH, and how it is affected.

Through our nervous system, we are related to our inner world and to the outside world. Efferent and afferent nerves. And all languages have enough colloquial sayings about some nervous states being related to digestive states. Or look at the chinese medicine too. A bilious person, a heartbrake, to have guts, "it stayed on my stomach", The news was so hard to swallow... but sure you did not eat the newspaper didn't you?
 

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