High vitamin D levels essential for tolerating T3??

[ddjd]

I always feel extremely awful whenever I take vitamin D. (topically or orally does not matter)

I don‘t really take it anymore at all but I remember a few months ago where I tried topical D for half a week and after the first dose I felt so damn hypothyroid all of a sudden. (I was already taking thyroid at that time and felt pretty good on that) I thought my 25OHD of 22ng/ml needed some support after I read this thread. But it completely backfired for me.

D3 always me feel extremely cold, makes my muscles tight and my joints sore, makes my mood very depressed, irritable, anxious and I feel generally stressed out on it. It also gives me urinary pain and sore kidneys somehow… Tried with cofactors and everything.

I have a feeling, thst my 25OHD is low-ish because my active D is high, but haven’t measured it yet.

Lowering high cortisol is the most important thing for thyroid to work in my experience. (Drinking medicinal herbal tea instead of coffee, taking a tolerated oral magnesium, improving sleep, eating solid meals & strong breakfast are big)

youre taking the d3 with k2mk4 and plenty of magnesium right?? otherwise youre just asking for problems...

 

[youngsinatra]

youre taking the d3 with k2mk4 and plenty of magnesium right?? otherwise youre just asking for problems...

Yes. I need so much magnesium when taking D3, it’s unbelievable. Seems to burn through it insanely quick. Another thing that is interesting is that my half moons (lunala) on my nails disappeared on D3. They are finally coming back. These half moons are a sign of good thyroid function, oxygenation and magnesium status from the things I read on that. The absence of them indicate low thyroid, anemia or depression.

 

[FitnessMike]

medicinal herbal

what teas are you drinking these days?

 

[youngsinatra]

what teas are you drinking these days?

I buy the loose tea from a local tea store. It‘s mostly a blend of different soothing/calming kinds. I can look up what exactly in it, when I am back home.

 

[Jonk]

I need so much magnesium when taking D3, it’s unbelievable.

Same here, need lots of magnesium preferably with or before I supplement D3.

 

[Dr. B]

Same here, need lots of magnesium preferably with or before I supplement D3.

What kind of dosages of D3

@youngsinatra what dosage of D3 were you using? Is 1000IU daily safe without needing to supplement magnesium?

 

[Jonk]

What kind of dosages of D3

@youngsinatra what dosage of D3 were you using? Is 1000IU daily safe without needing to supplement magnesium?

I do 10k 2x a day atm. So 20k/day total

 

[Dr. B]

I do 10k 2x a day atm. So 20k/day total

Thats big big dosage i heard you even need to supplement b vitamins and its risky to do such a large dose.

I used to do 10k daily for a couple years. I actually got benefits from stopping it entirely, maybe lasted a few weeks. An energy boost and seemingly lowered cortisol levels just from overall appearance and energy
Eventually i added it back in but only 1000IU daily. I was thinking at this dosage i shouldn’t need to supplement vitamin K2 or magnesium or b vitamins? I also dont know it its safe to megadose D3 especially if your skin is lighter. Based on the logic commonly mentioned with regards to D3, it would be safer for a darker skinned person who doesnt get sunlight, to use high dose D3 supplements…

 

[TheSir]

Thats big big dosage i heard you even need to supplement b vitamins and its risky to do such a large dose.

I used to do 10k daily for a couple years. I actually got benefits from stopping it entirely, maybe lasted a few weeks. An energy boost and seemingly lowered cortisol levels just from overall appearance and energy
Eventually i added it back in but only 1000IU daily. I was thinking at this dosage i shouldn’t need to supplement vitamin K2 or magnesium or b vitamins? I also dont know it its safe to megadose D3 especially if your skin is lighter. Based on the logic commonly mentioned with regards to D3, it would be safer for a darker skinned person who doesnt get sunlight, to use high dose D3 supplements…

For what it's worth, I find as little as 1000 IU to significantly increase my need for mg & potassium. Fasciculations and palpitations ensue if I don't.

 

[aniciete]

Vitamin d supplements seem to affect my sleep no matter what I do.

 

[Jonk]

Thats big big dosage i heard you even need to supplement b vitamins and its risky to do such a large dose.

I used to do 10k daily for a couple years. I actually got benefits from stopping it entirely, maybe lasted a few weeks. An energy boost and seemingly lowered cortisol levels just from overall appearance and energy
Eventually i added it back in but only 1000IU daily. I was thinking at this dosage i shouldn’t need to supplement vitamin K2 or magnesium or b vitamins? I also dont know it its safe to megadose D3 especially if your skin is lighter. Based on the logic commonly mentioned with regards to D3, it would be safer for a darker skinned person who doesnt get sunlight, to use high dose D3 supplements…

Yeah maybe it's a bit risky and probably need to check my levels somewhere in the near future, although I think the risks are overblown. I was always very sensitive to the sun, and I'm a Swede so we don't get much sun here anyway, but generally you're supposed to be able to make 10-20k iu from 30 min of midday summer sun. Before I never felt good taking it so I didn't, but since I don't tolerate direct sunlight very good, I made an effort to find a way. Like I said in a previous post, large doses of magnesium helps a lot and I get boosts in mood which I don't get from magnesium alone. Also keeping the gut clear helps a lot. One day I ate a lot of muscle meats and supplemented vitamin D and felt like ***t (even more so than from only the heavy muscle meat meals). Trying to be intuitive and adjust. But yeah testing is probably key

 

[youngsinatra]

For what it's worth, I find as little as 1000 IU to significantly increase my need for mg & potassium. Fasciculations and palpitations ensue if I don't.

That likely does not happen when you get that amount of vitamin D from sunlight, right? (which you should get very fast in the summer for example)

I personally don’t get weird symptoms from „vitamin D“ when I get it through sun bathing. In fact I usually felt much better when I sun bathed for 30-45 min whenever I was able to, in the last summer.

 

[ddjd]

Vitamin d supplements seem to affect my sleep no matter what I do.

B6p5p is very very important to take alongside magnesium glycinate and the vitamin D3

I would definitely definitely try the b6p5p and magnesium and vitamin d3 and see if that doesn't help resolve the sleep issue.

A few quotes below if anyone is interested....

IMPORTANT: do not use regular b6 pyridoxine it will not work anywhere near as good as b6p5p




Vitamin B6, Magnesium, and Vitamin D: the Triple Play: “Pyridoxal phosphate (P5P or PLP), the active form of B6, enhances the intracellular entry of magnesium and is required for the synthesis of the antioxidants melatonin and glutathione, oft called the "mother" of all antioxidants. Deficiencies of P5P and vitamin D are associated with decreased gut microbiota diversity and short chain fatty acids, e.g., butyrate, as seen in LC and CFS. This suboptimal gut microbiome reflects the continuing decline in the nutritional value of the Western diet”


“P5P appears to enhance cellular entry of magnesium (and vice versa), be they enterocytes, erythrocytes, or neurons. Vitamin D and magnesium are the superstars, but P5P plays a strong supporting role. The domino effect of P5P on increasing intracellular magnesium, which then enables synthesis of vitamin D, cannot be overemphasized. But the distinction between P5P and its pretenders (pyridoxine, pyridoxamine) must not be overlooked.”


“pyridoxal 5'-phosphate may be related to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D retention in the nuclei, possibly through interaction of the pyridoxal 5'-phosphate with the vitamin D receptor protein in the nuclei.”

 

[Candeias]

B6p5p is very very important to take alongside magnesium glycinate and the vitamin D3

I would definitely definitely try the b6p5p and magnesium and vitamin d3 and see if that doesn't help resolve the sleep issue.

A few quotes below if anyone is interested....

IMPORTANT: do not use regular b6 pyridoxine it will not work anywhere near as good as b6p5p




Vitamin B6, Magnesium, and Vitamin D: the Triple Play: “Pyridoxal phosphate (P5P or PLP), the active form of B6, enhances the intracellular entry of magnesium and is required for the synthesis of the antioxidants melatonin and glutathione, oft called the "mother" of all antioxidants. Deficiencies of P5P and vitamin D are associated with decreased gut microbiota diversity and short chain fatty acids, e.g., butyrate, as seen in LC and CFS. This suboptimal gut microbiome reflects the continuing decline in the nutritional value of the Western diet”


“P5P appears to enhance cellular entry of magnesium (and vice versa), be they enterocytes, erythrocytes, or neurons. Vitamin D and magnesium are the superstars, but P5P plays a strong supporting role. The domino effect of P5P on increasing intracellular magnesium, which then enables synthesis of vitamin D, cannot be overemphasized. But the distinction between P5P and its pretenders (pyridoxine, pyridoxamine) must not be overlooked.”


“pyridoxal 5'-phosphate may be related to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D retention in the nuclei, possibly through interaction of the pyridoxal 5'-phosphate with the vitamin D receptor protein in the nuclei.”

p5p increases my dopamine so much that I am able to perform homework in a mind-blowing way without loss of motivation. But I went into strong depression shortly after and discovered that my vitamin B12 got low very quickly.
I assume it is due to the increase in some methylation cycle that uses p5p and as a consequence increases dopamine. My fear is also over-depleting other compounds such as folinic acid, riboflavin, etc.

 

[ddjd]

p5p increases my dopamine so much that I am able to perform homework in a mind-blowing way without loss of motivation. But I went into strong depression shortly after and discovered that my vitamin B12 got low very quickly.
I assume it is due to the increase in some methylation cycle that uses p5p and as a consequence increases dopamine. My fear is also over-depleting other compounds such as folinic acid, riboflavin, etc.

its impossible to understand the complexity of the b vitamin interactions. im agree, as you say, taking single b vitamins will deplete some of the others. we can only go off symptomns and supplement accordingly.

a lot of people will say just stick to beef liver because youre guaranteed to get all of the b's plus a lot more....

im pretty sure now though if youre like me and have put on a lot of water weight since starting peating, its probably a b6p5p deficiency....

 

[Dr. B]

p5p increases my dopamine so much that I am able to perform homework in a mind-blowing way without loss of motivation. But I went into strong depression shortly after and discovered that my vitamin B12 got low very quickly.
I assume it is due to the increase in some methylation cycle that uses p5p and as a consequence increases dopamine. My fear is also over-depleting other compounds such as folinic acid, riboflavin, etc.

How did you know it was b12 that was what got low? Arent there tons of things involved in methylation including choline, betaine, b12, folate, even methionine and maybe other amino acids…

Also what about legion supplements b complex? It seems to have a good ratio of the b vitamins and an overall low dosage of all of them? One capsule contains 7.5mg b1, 5mg r5p b2, 20mg or 12mg niacinamide, 12.5mg b5, 5mg p5p b6, 33mcg biotin, 125mg choline, 200mcg methylfolate, maybe 50mg coq10, 125mg inositol, maybe 50mcg b12.

I dont know if i should make a thread on this but most or all b vitamins contain more dosage than whats stated on the label. Companies have to meet fda regulations up till the expiry date, so they have to put up to 25% more b vitamins to account for product loss during 2 years

 

[Candeias]

How did you know it was b12 that was what got low? Arent there tons of things involved in methylation including choline, betaine, b12, folate, even methionine and maybe other amino acids…

Also what about legion supplements b complex? It seems to have a good ratio of the b vitamins and an overall low dosage of all of them? One capsule contains 7.5mg b1, 5mg r5p b2, 20mg or 12mg niacinamide, 12.5mg b5, 5mg p5p b6, 33mcg biotin, 125mg choline, 200mcg methylfolate, maybe 50mg coq10, 125mg inositol, maybe 50mcg b12.

I dont know if i should make a thread on this but most or all b vitamins contain more dosage than whats stated on the label. Companies have to meet fda regulations up till the expiry date, so they have to put up to 25% more b vitamins to account for product loss during 2 years

I took a blood test. And I was suspicious because I had already caused the same deficiency in the past using supplements.

 

[Dr. B]

B6p5p is very very important to take alongside magnesium glycinate and the vitamin D3

I would definitely definitely try the b6p5p and magnesium and vitamin d3 and see if that doesn't help resolve the sleep issue.

A few quotes below if anyone is interested....

IMPORTANT: do not use regular b6 pyridoxine it will not work anywhere near as good as b6p5p




Vitamin B6, Magnesium, and Vitamin D: the Triple Play: “Pyridoxal phosphate (P5P or PLP), the active form of B6, enhances the intracellular entry of magnesium and is required for the synthesis of the antioxidants melatonin and glutathione, oft called the "mother" of all antioxidants. Deficiencies of P5P and vitamin D are associated with decreased gut microbiota diversity and short chain fatty acids, e.g., butyrate, as seen in LC and CFS. This suboptimal gut microbiome reflects the continuing decline in the nutritional value of the Western diet”


“P5P appears to enhance cellular entry of magnesium (and vice versa), be they enterocytes, erythrocytes, or neurons. Vitamin D and magnesium are the superstars, but P5P plays a strong supporting role. The domino effect of P5P on increasing intracellular magnesium, which then enables synthesis of vitamin D, cannot be overemphasized. But the distinction between P5P and its pretenders (pyridoxine, pyridoxamine) must not be overlooked.”


“pyridoxal 5'-phosphate may be related to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D retention in the nuclei, possibly through interaction of the pyridoxal 5'-phosphate with the vitamin D receptor protein in the nuclei.”

Doesnt pyrodixine hcl form of b6 have other specific benefits that p5p doesnt have? Like lowering prolactin maybe? Or does p5p do everything pyrodixine does but better

 

[ddjd]

Doesnt pyrodixine hcl form of b6 have other specific benefits that p5p doesnt have? Like lowering prolactin maybe? Or does p5p do everything pyrodixine does but better

regular b6 actually causes functional b6 deficiency.

haidut: "Yep. And the older the person the less pyridoxine they are able to convert into P5P. That's one of the main reasons we use P5P in our Energin and not the pyrodoxine Hcl. The latter will probably work OK in people under 30 but its (neuro)toxicity becomes rather obvious with advancing age and in doses higher than 25mg daily."

Pyridoxine Is Toxic And Inhibit P5P Function?

The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function. - PubMed - NCBI ↓ Full text The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function. Vrolijk MF, et al. Toxicol In...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Dr. B]

regular b6 actually causes functional b6 deficiency.

haidut: "Yep. And the older the person the less pyridoxine they are able to convert into P5P. That's one of the main reasons we use P5P in our Energin and not the pyrodoxine Hcl. The latter will probably work OK in people under 30 but its (neuro)toxicity becomes rather obvious with advancing age and in doses higher than 25mg daily."

Pyridoxine Is Toxic And Inhibit P5P Function?

The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function. - PubMed - NCBI ↓ Full text The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function. Vrolijk MF, et al. Toxicol In...

raypeatforum.com

Interesting but it was also a Haidut thread where i believe he said only the pyridoxine form is anti prolactin? Maybe it was an older thread than this one?