Vitamin D hypersensitivity

[Mossy]

For anyone interested, I’ve managed to finally get on top of this reaction. I can now take a normal vitamin d dose no problem. It seems I was having paradoxical hypercalcemic reaction as @BearWithMe pointed out. Taking calcium at the same time as the vitamin d alleviated the negative response. For some reason it has to be at the same time, before I would take calcium sometime after the D3 but it didn’t seem to stop the reaction.

As someone who has trouble taking vitamin D, it would help to know if you still take the vitamin D before bed; and in what form is the calcium, food?

 

[gaze]

fwiw i thought i couldn't handle vit D even though i was always low. i just decided I was gonna take 10,000 IU a day and whatever negative symptom I thought i had I wouldn't blame on the vit D, i just treated it with more magnesium, b vitamins, food etc. eventually i started feeling normal and in my blood test after just 1 month my blood levels were 70 ng/ml with normal calcium, and i felt good. now im down to 4000 IU a day as a maintenance, but im glad i just committed to taking it

 

[BearWithMe]

fwiw i thought i couldn't handle vit D even though i was always low. i just decided I was gonna take 10,000 IU a day and whatever negative symptom I thought i had I wouldn't blame on the vit D, i just treated it with more magnesium, b vitamins, food etc. eventually i started feeling normal and in my blood test after just 1 month my blood levels were 70 ng/ml with normal calcium, and i felt good. now im down to 4000 IU a day as a maintenance, but im glad i just committed to taking it

That's awesome! What brand are you using?

 

[Mossy]

fwiw i thought i couldn't handle vit D even though i was always low. i just decided I was gonna take 10,000 IU a day and whatever negative symptom I thought i had I wouldn't blame on the vit D, i just treated it with more magnesium, b vitamins, food etc. eventually i started feeling normal and in my blood test after just 1 month my blood levels were 70 ng/ml with normal calcium, and i felt good. now im down to 4000 IU a day as a maintenance, but im glad i just committed to taking it

Interesting. So no extra calcium by way of food or supplements? What time of day do you take it?

 

[gaze]

That's awesome! What brand are you using?

Vitamin D Drops - 900 Servings

Vitamin D Liquid by Seeking Health provides a potent 50 mcg (2,000 IU) dose of vitamin D3 per drop, in pure olive oil base. Vitamin D is essential for the normal functioning of many important systems in the body and is needed to support a healthy immune system and long-term bone health. Many do...

www.seekinghealth.com

these drops under the tongue

Interesting. So no extra calcium by way of food or supplements? What time of day do you take it?

both before i started and after i was getting a "normal" amount of calcium: 2-4 glasses of goat milk and some cheese throughout the day. also magnesium throughout the day. Early on in the peat days i did 2 quarts of milk (while my vit D was still low) and my calcium went above range and it was causing anxiety problems. i started using magnesium, b vitamins, switched to goat milk and cut it down to 1 quart a day with some cheese, and then the Vit D and my vit D came up and my calcium is now right in the middle of the range. I usually take it any time i can remember, except for past 9PM just out of a suspicion that humans aren't meant to have vit D before bed

 

[gaze]

i think the mental aspect is really underrated. When something goes off, it's easy to blame anything and everything for causing it, and once you think vit D for example is causing your problems, it's a lot harder to commit to. but i knew my blood levels were low, I knew all studies basically say it's good to raise blood levels, Ray said it's 100% safe, so I just committed to it like I said and if I felt bad I would try to solve the problem using something else instead of going down the rabbit hole of question vit D, at least until I could raise my blood levels to normal. and eventually things just got better over the course of a few weeks. i would definitely try to get blood tests though just to know for sure your not doing too little or too much

 

[Mossy]

Vitamin D Drops - 900 Servings

Vitamin D Liquid by Seeking Health provides a potent 50 mcg (2,000 IU) dose of vitamin D3 per drop, in pure olive oil base. Vitamin D is essential for the normal functioning of many important systems in the body and is needed to support a healthy immune system and long-term bone health. Many do...

www.seekinghealth.com

these drops under the tongue


both before i started and after i was getting a "normal" amount of calcium: 2-4 glasses of goat milk and some cheese throughout the day. also magnesium throughout the day. Early on in the peat days i did 2 quarts of milk (while my vit D was still low) and my calcium went above range and it was causing anxiety problems. i started using magnesium, b vitamins, switched to goat milk and cut it down to 1 quart a day with some cheese, and then the Vit D and my vit D came up and my calcium is now right in the middle of the range. I usually take it any time i can remember, except for past 9PM just out of a suspicion that humans aren't meant to have vit D before bed

I appreciate the detail. Thank you.

 

[BearWithMe]

i think the mental aspect is really underrated. When something goes off, it's easy to blame anything and everything for causing it, and once you think vit D for example is causing your problems, it's a lot harder to commit to. but i knew my blood levels were low, I knew all studies basically say it's good to raise blood levels, Ray said it's 100% safe, so I just committed to it like I said and if I felt bad I would try to solve the problem using something else instead of going down the rabbit hole of question vit D, at least until I could raise my blood levels to normal. and eventually things just got better over the course of a few weeks. i would definitely try to get blood tests though just to know for sure your not doing too little or too much

Your posts are much appreciated!

 

[Rafe]

@gaze
Are you thinking it was the type or quality of vit D in the milk that caused the symptoms & hypercalcemia before you switched to milk unfortified with A or D?

I switched to raw milk mainly for that reason: I started to suspect bizarre symptoms were from hypercalcemia caused by vit D b/c they got worse when I added in more vit D as a separate supp & went down when I switched to unfortified milk & stopped the supp.

 

[aniciete]

Vitamin D Drops - 900 Servings

Vitamin D Liquid by Seeking Health provides a potent 50 mcg (2,000 IU) dose of vitamin D3 per drop, in pure olive oil base. Vitamin D is essential for the normal functioning of many important systems in the body and is needed to support a healthy immune system and long-term bone health. Many do...

www.seekinghealth.com

these drops under the tongue


both before i started and after i was getting a "normal" amount of calcium: 2-4 glasses of goat milk and some cheese throughout the day. also magnesium throughout the day. Early on in the peat days i did 2 quarts of milk (while my vit D was still low) and my calcium went above range and it was causing anxiety problems. i started using magnesium, b vitamins, switched to goat milk and cut it down to 1 quart a day with some cheese, and then the Vit D and my vit D came up and my calcium is now right in the middle of the range. I usually take it any time i can remember, except for past 9PM just out of a suspicion that humans aren't meant to have vit D before bed

How much magnesium do you take alongside the vitamin d? Do you take k2 too? I really want to make vitamin d work especially since winter is coming

 

[Kayaker]

Calcium is a sodium channel blocker.

Stepwise Approach to Myopathy in Systemic Disease

Muscle diseases can constitute a large variety of both acquired and hereditary disorders. Myopathies in systemic disease results from several different disease processes including endocrine, inflammatory, paraneoplastic, infectious, drug- and toxin-induced, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hypercalcemia causes weakness with hyperreflexia, so this may relate more to central nervous system effects than those on muscle.

Wiki says:

The high levels of calcium ions decrease the neuron membrane permeability to sodium ions, thus decreasing excitability

How do you prevent calcium from doing this apart from consuming less of it?

 

[BearWithMe]

Calcium is a sodium channel blocker.

Stepwise Approach to Myopathy in Systemic Disease

Muscle diseases can constitute a large variety of both acquired and hereditary disorders. Myopathies in systemic disease results from several different disease processes including endocrine, inflammatory, paraneoplastic, infectious, drug- and toxin-induced, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Wiki says:

How do you prevent calcium from doing this apart from consuming less of it?

Increase its proper utilization and deposition in bones. That's where calcium belongs. You don't want too much calcium in your bloodstream, that's when it is actually toxic.

Vitamins D and K comes to mind.

 

[Kayaker]

Increase its proper utilization and deposition in bones. That's where calcium belongs. You don't want too much calcium in your bloodstream, that's when it is actually toxic.

Vitamins D and K comes to mind.

It looks like calcium's mechanism of causing weakness is in the basal ganglia.

Primary familial brain calcification is a condition characterized by abnormal deposits of calcium (calcification) in blood vessels within the brain. These calcium deposits are visible only on medical imaging and typically occur in the basal ganglia, which are structures deep within the brain that help start and control movement of the body.

Vitamin K would probably help to decalcify the region.

The movement problem reported by some people here is probably due to years of high calcium consumption combined with hypothyroidism, which increases cortisol and therefore uptake of calcium by cells. The brain has a high energy requirement and an energy deficit causes people to rely on excessive amounts of excitatory calcium in that region for movement, which ends up backfiring.

So it's different from the typical soft tissue calcification that occurs from high PTH/low calcium consumption. Since the cause is hypothyroidism, correcting that is important, but I'm not sure if calcium or vitamin D would make the decalcification process faster or slower once the energy deficit is corrected.

My former sodium blockade theory doesn't explain why sodium consumption doesn't help or why this problem happens to be more common here. Nor why the issue gets worse from movement, which wouldn't cause an increase in extracellular calcium. People would have noticed higher calcium on blood tests as well, which they probably didn't.

 

[Lord Cola]

Vitamin D causes so many unpleasant effects for me and it seems like lots of people here are affected badly as well. It's not the MCT oil, it's not calcium deficiency, it's not vitamin K deficiency that cause these symptoms. The vitamin D supplement is what causes them. I don't get much sunlight yet I feel much better when I stop supplementing; it usually takes a few days to get rid of the symptoms after stopping. Maybe I get enough already since my house has big windows all around the house, but from what I've heard you need direct exposure to sunlight for many hours unless the light is intense.

I wonder if there are underlying issues that make it hard for me to deal with vitamin D.

 

[youngsinatra]

Did pause vitamin D supplementation for 2 months. Felt very good.

Tried 5000 IU of pure D3 yesterday and today morning and I am feeling worse. Muscles tensed up, blood pressure higher again, mentally on edge.

And I needed 1000mg of supplemental magnesium to somewhat relax yesterday night.

Not going back to vitamin D.

 

[Korven]

Did pause vitamin D supplementation for 2 months. Felt very good.

Tried 5000 IU of pure D3 yesterday and today morning and I am feeling worse. Muscles tensed up, blood pressure higher again, mentally on edge.

And I needed 1000mg of supplemental magnesium to somewhat relax yesterday night.

Not going back to vitamin D.

I also feel very good with zero vitamin D. And I haven't seen the sun in months either because it's winter and snowy here. When I think about it's sort of similar to "Marshall Protocol Lite" where you deliberately avoid both vitamin D supplements and sun exposure. For me personally, vitamin D is overrated. However I know some people do great with vitamin D so I'm not gonna say everyone should stop taking it.

Now I'm starting to wonder if ordering the Sperti sun lamp (which cost me a lot with shipping) was a mistake or not...

 

[Peatness]

If they fortify the milk in the UK I will stop drinking milk

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/musculoskeletal-and-rheumatology/government-considering-mandatory-vitamin-d-fortification-to-reduce-deficiencies/

Vitamin D: call for evidence

We want your views on how to improve the vitamin D status of the population in England.

www.gov.uk

 

[Peatness]

#50: DHT for Hair Growth? | New Ray Peat Interviews | Keto and Mitochondria | Childhood Trauma​

01:47:10 - Question: calcium, vitamin D, vitamin K

 

[BearWithMe]

#50: DHT for Hair Growth? | New Ray Peat Interviews | Keto and Mitochondria | Childhood Trauma​

01:47:10 - Question: calcium, vitamin D, vitamin K

This is wonderful, thank you very much for sharing!

 

[cs3000]

I managed to narrow down severe electrical symptoms to vitamin D supplementation (at reasonable doses and with 30ng blood levels). repeated non-stop twitching all over my body & face, sudden involuntary foot movement, erratic heart rhythm changes with sharp electrical spike pains, & also waking up in adrenaline rushes. + the common recommendation of magnesium just took it up a notch made it worse.

It all settled once I stopped supplementation & levels came down in winter without sun. all came back once i re-tried the D3. and now it annoyingly comes back from summer sunlight after a couple weeks.

- idk for sure but the only angle I got for this so far is that it's some sort of hyper-response with calcium that doesn't show up in serum as hypercalcemia (severe soft tissue calcification can occur in people without showing up in blood work as over the range). considering my diet has been low in vitamin k and vitamin A for many years and very low in calcium (mainly from fortified grain since i stopped milk last decade, which i recently realized is ridiculous intake). so this is worth a shot (k1 + vit a + mk4 + calcium (unintitively) as more in diet reverses parathyroid hormone effects)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H7tbWVNrXQ

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2009/04/07/tufts-university-confirms-that-vitamin

^ Vitamin D alone spikes up the levels of defective uncarboxylated MGP which can't bind calcium (wonder if its directly harmful too on top of not being effective?).

Ordinarily with enough Vitamin A and K1 this brings down the level of uncarboxylated MGP and carboxylates it, through increasing conversion of K1 -> k2 mk4 and increasing utilization of mk-4 to carboxylate the MGP elevated by vit d. then calcium is binding correctly instead of wrecking havoc in places it shouldn't be.

https://academic.oup.com/ckj/article/11/4/528/4616523

^ Interestingly there's a case report in a woman with an extreme form of soft tissue calcium deposit. she was cured by giving this protocol for months -

"Intravenous therapy was begun with 10 mg vitamin K and a multivitamin given at every dialysis session. The multivitamin contained retinol 3500 IU, cholecalciferol 5.5 μg, vitamin E 11.2 IU, vitamin C 125 mg, thiamine 3.51 mg, riboflavine 4.14 mg, pyridoxine 4.53 mg, cyanocobalamin 6 μg, folic acid 414 μg, dexpanthenoic acid 17.25 mg, d-biotin 69 μg, niacin 46 mg, glycocholic acid 140 mg and lecithin 112.5 mg. "

Currently trying:
- 700,000iu total Vit A spread out over a month or 2 - in people with low intakes a +10% response in serum is seen by 1 month from 70,000iu weekly Vitamin A supplementation and plasma retinol levels: a randomized trial among women - PubMed and as an example in an autism study in children where vit a deficiency is high a ~+50% correction in serum was needed to reach standard levels which came with 1 dose 200,000iu (maybe 3.5x - 4x bodyweight for an adult). another study in aids patients showed i think around +25% increase with 1 600,000iu dose by 3 months (doesnt seem safe like that though).
[so far this has made me feel lightheaded / dizzy / weak / brain foggy for some reason - either its because its extracted from cod liver oil, or maybe as it's the palmitate form? might try another form Retinol as they're processed differently in the body -> Thoughts & Concerns On Retinyl Acetate]

- k2 mk-4 1.5mg - Low-dose menaquinone-4 improves γ-carboxylation of osteocalcin in young males: a non-placebo-controlled dose–response study

- k1 1mg - 2mg A high phylloquinone intake is required to achieve maximal osteocalcin gamma-carboxylation - PubMed

- calcium 500mg every 4-6 hours morning afternoon evening to keep parathyroid hormone low https://www.researchgate.net/public...plementation_on_Parathyroid_Hormone_Secretion

(solgar k1 for a couple days initially increased anxiety a lot (maybe as low dose could be all the other ingredients x10 not sure) so i've switched suppliers to try a different source. maybe just the Vit A + mk-4 is enough as then dont need much k1 conversion to k2 but going by the case report i'll try all of them. worth a shot to see if it works for 1 or 2 months and good to have anyway)