A very confusing month? (vitamin D, magnesium, liver)

Quelsatron

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The last month I've been diagnosed with a vitamin D level of 40 nmol, and to remedy I started taking 10,000 IU of it per day (ingredients: olive oil, gelatin capsule, glycerin, vitamin D3, DL alpha tocopherol). I've had various reactions during this time, and I would like some help with understanding what could be happening. My main health concern the last year has been a very obnoxious fatigue/depression, with various concerning veins (rosacea, telangiectasia, cherry angioma). Previously before my health crashed, I think my main problem had been caffeinated fasting, plus of course regular PUFA consumption, along with sunlight abstinence. When peating I started taking way too many random supplements, and eating a lot. My TSH is fine ish, and is even better than 2 years ago when I was feeling much better, and my pulse is also at least around 72/min pretty much all of the time, though my feet often become cold. I'll go by a week by week basis:

week 0: Tired beyond belief, weekend consisted of lying in bed with a minor headache.

week 1: started vitamin D supplementation. Nothing happened for a few days, as expected, then added in topical magnesium oil to prevent supposed magnesium loss from vitamin D. Result: massive gains in energy levels, huzzah! This petered out a bit over the week, but I expected such. Weekend, went to my mothers, had to take antihistamine for the cat (desloratadine), realized it had been giving me fatigue and heart palpitations throughout all of the year, but not noticably so when i was healthier.

Week 2: general malaise, whether it was due to the lingering effects of the antihistamine or just a return to the normal I don't know. I tried going off magnesium for a day or two, but going for a walk during one of these days made me quickly extremely tired and I fell asleep right after, so I went back on the magnesium figuring that it was quickly being drained and nothing like this happened again.

Week 3: this is where it gets interesting, I made liver paté and ate it regularly with breakfast, about 400 grams of liver over the week (having eaten plenty of times over the last year and a half). Very quickly I gained much more energy, mood and libido. A few days in I started applying much more magnesium than normal by reapplying water on my MgCl-encrusted skin for several hours, and I started feeling extremely good. I was finally feeling like myself again, I was punching the air and doing pushups, music sounded much better, everything was somehow looking beautiful, vivid images appeared in my mind, my dopamine must have been extremely high. But it didn't come without a price, and after about five six hours I became very tired and with strong headaches, despite eating a fair amount, but the more I ate during this period the gentler this burnout period was, so I think I must have burned through the blood sugar levels or something. This only happened 2-3 days, and by sunday I wasn't feeling so good and a meal of meat and potatoes which I had been eating semi-regularly throughout this month left me very "flat"/depressed and cold. I might have eaten a teaspoon of coconut oil in my coffee during the good days and stopped towards the weekend.

Week 4: Yesterday I was back to my bad normal of week 2, today I'm probably a bit worse but I didn't go to work so the inactivity might be making that difference. Coconut oil did not do anything. The only real difference from week 2 is that now whenever I take more than a slight amount of magnesium it gets uncomfortable breathing, like my throat has swollen up, i'll stop taking it for a while and see what happens.

Can anyone explain these up and down responses to the things I consume? It's very frustrating, my only real point of hope lies in steadily raising vitamin D levels.

sorry for the wall of text, but I want to make it as thorough as possible. I'm also gonna get a blood test for vitamin D in a week or so and see how well I've replenished it so far.
 

youngsinatra

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When someone has a vitamin D deficiency, even at a physiological maintenance dose (like 4-5.000 IU D3) it might need 4 - 6 months to reach optimal levels.

What I can recommend is using a vitamin D3 therapy calculator:

I would recommend doing a initial D3 loading for 12 days (then reach your optimal levels) and then go to a normal maintenance dose.
But it is needed to know your current D3 status via blood test, but it is totally worth it!

I would keep magnesium and beef liver in there during that time, matched to your personal perceived needs.
 

Gustav3Y

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What about injectable D3, some ampoules are 100.000 IU others are 300.000 IU?
If you get a prescription you can buy them.
 
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Quelsatron

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When someone has a vitamin D deficiency, even at a physiological maintenance dose (like 4-5.000 IU D3) it might need 4 - 6 months to reach optimal levels.

What I can recommend is using a vitamin D3 therapy calculator:

I would recommend doing a initial D3 loading for 12 days (then reach your optimal levels) and then go to a normal maintenance dose.
But it is needed to know your current D3 status via blood test, but it is totally worth it!

I would keep magnesium and beef liver in there during that time, matched to your personal perceived needs.
Interesting calculator. I was following an equation from vitamindwiki that claimed 10k would normalize my levels within a few weeks, but maybe months is a more accurate timeframe, and I guess absorption will vary. I'm going to see how well I can stand magnesium without breathing discomfort and try to use the maximum tolerated amount, but I'm still confused why it would happen to begin with. Maybe it's due to mineral balance? Could it be due to potassium or some other mg counterweight? I'm also suspicious towards the vitamin A content of liver, maybe the strong effect was just some kind of temporary adaptive response to a new flood of A to a retinol replete but vitamin D deficient system, so I think I'll actually hold off on liver until my D is normalized.

Either way, I'm taking a new blood test tomorrow, which will shed some light on my progress.

What about injectable D3, some ampule are 100.000 IU others are 300.000 IU?
If you get a prescription you can buy them.
I can't get a prescription, apparently the local doctors office doesn't consider an insufficiency a real deficiency, but I didn't try pushing it further because it would just be another headache I didn't really need. If the supplements are already changing my value it seems unnecessary.
 

Gustav3Y

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40 nmol/L is 16 ng/ml that is quite low indeed.
Have the supplements changed the value since then?
 
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youngsinatra

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Interesting calculator. I was following an equation from vitamindwiki that claimed 10k would normalize my levels within a few weeks, but maybe months is a more accurate timeframe, and I guess absorption will vary. I'm going to see how well I can stand magnesium without breathing discomfort and try to use the maximum tolerated amount, but I'm still confused why it would happen to begin with. Maybe it's due to mineral balance? Could it be due to potassium or some other mg counterweight? I'm also suspicious towards the vitamin A content of liver, maybe the strong effect was just some kind of temporary adaptive response to a new flood of A to a retinol replete but vitamin D deficient system, so I think I'll actually hold off on liver until my D is normalized.

Either way, I'm taking a new blood test tomorrow, which will shed some light on my progress.


I can't get a prescription, apparently the local doctors office doesn't consider an insufficiency a real deficiency, but I didn't try pushing it further because it would just be another headache I didn't really need. If the supplements are already changing my value it seems unnecessary.
Keep us updated on the test results!

I had a sufficient level of 36/ml last summer while taking 5000 IU for 7+ months.

I‘ve taken 8000 IU D3 since then and I still take it everyday. My blood test is already planned for the next week.

I am excited for the results. I personally would like to get my level closer to the 60ng/ml range.
Have heard great success stories from people who raised their „normal“ levels to 60-80ng/ml.
 

Pina

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Interesting calculator. I was following an equation from vitamindwiki that claimed 10k would normalize my levels within a few weeks, but maybe months is a more accurate timeframe, and I guess absorption will vary. I'm going to see how well I can stand magnesium without breathing discomfort and try to use the maximum tolerated amount, but I'm still confused why it would happen to begin with. Maybe it's due to mineral balance? Could it be due to potassium or some other mg counterweight? I'm also suspicious towards the vitamin A content of liver, maybe the strong effect was just some kind of temporary adaptive response to a new flood of A to a retinol replete but vitamin D deficient system, so I think I'll actually hold off on liver until my D is normalized.

Either way, I'm taking a new blood test tomorrow, which will shed some light on my progress.


I can't get a prescription, apparently the local doctors office doesn't consider an insufficiency a real deficiency, but I didn't try pushing it further because it would just be another headache I didn't really need. If the supplements are already changing my value it seems unnecessary.
This might help answer some of your questions

 

Quelsatron

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This might help answer some of your questions

not sure, although I didn't know that animals lick their vitamin d from their fur, very interesting!
whats your calcium intake ?
probably good enough, I've always drank a lot of milk
 

Belsazar

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I am excited for the results. I personally would like to get my level closer to the 60ng/ml range.
Have heard great success stories from people who raised their „normal“ levels to 60-80ng/ml.
Any references? Keep in mind: co-factors especially Vitamin K.
 

youngsinatra

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Any references? Keep in mind: co-factors especially Vitamin K.
Showing that 60-80ng/ml might be needed for neurological problems and optimal sleep.
Gominak SC, Stumpf WE. The world epidemic of sleep disorders is linked to vitamin D deficiency. Med Hypotheses. 2012 Aug;79(2):132-5. doi: 10.1016/j.mehy.2012.03.031. Epub 2012 May 13. PMID: 22583560.


Cultures with natural sunlight have levels of 54-90ng/ml.
Grant WB, Holick MF. Benefits and requirements of vitamin D for optimal health: a review. Altern Med Rev. 2005 Jun;10(2):94-111. PMID: 15989379.

I think Ray mentioned 40-60ng/ml as a good range but I currently have no resource for that.

I think most vitamin D researcher think that 40-60ng/ml is best for overall health.

And to your concern about co-factors. I take 400mcg of K2 MK-7 each day and 400mg of magnesium glycinat. Also beef liver to balance the retinol with D3.
 

Gustav3Y

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I had 60ng/ml before without any supplementation direct or indirect, I can't say I slept good because of that D3 level.
 

youngsinatra

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I had 60ng/ml before without any supplementation direct or indirect, I can't say I slept good because of that D3 level.
Of course many other things can disrupt sleep.
But many can benefit from D3 levels like that, because it can fix a potential calcium deficiency, which is known to cause insomnia.
 

gaze

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By calcium deficiency you mean measurable as serum calcium levels?
initially serum calcium lowers in a deficiency, but then PTH will rise to both increase absorption and to start pulling calcium from the bones, which will raise calcium above the normal blood values. So if you have high or low calcium levels, you could have a deficiency. The more calcium you eat, the more your calcium should be in the middle to upper middle range, with low PTH
 

Gustav3Y

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initially serum calcium lowers in a deficiency, but then PTH will rise to both increase absorption and to start pulling calcium from the bones, which will raise calcium above the normal blood values. So if you have high or low calcium levels, you could have a deficiency. The more calcium you eat, the more your calcium should be in the middle to upper middle range, with low PTH

My total serum calcium is usually 9.7-10ng/dL (so upper normal) and PTH in the middle of the range.
Ionic calcium is 1.31 nmol/L on the top of the normal range.

Without any supplementation, I wonder if calcium can be pulled from the bones without high PTH levels?
 

gaze

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My total serum calcium is usually 9.7-10ng/dL (so upper normal) and PTH in the middle of the range.
Ionic calcium is 1.31 nmol/L on the top of the normal range.

Without any supplementation, I wonder if calcium can be pulled from the bones without high PTH levels?
i think prolactin can also do it although i'm not sure if it goes through the PTH or if it does it independently. i think ray said PTH should be bottom of the range, although a PTH in the middle doesn't necessarily indicate it's pulling calcium from the bones cause PTH has other jobs also, but having it lower is probably better. do you eat any calcium ?
 
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