Twitching & electrical symptoms from Vitamin D supplementation or sunlight (NOT magnesium, not high vit D)

[cs3000]

If there's a forum that can help me solve this it's this one . Vitamin D gives me twitching / spasming all over my body hands & face, & involuntary jolts of movement in my feet too especially when laying down. and regular moments of sharp heart pain with rhythm issues from whatever it does to my body, (had a scan and structurally my heart is fine but there's electrical issues).

the past few years this lasts for periods of months / I guess until my vitamin D levels are falling again. maybe I could accept having to have low vit D levels to prevent it happening, but even natural sunlight causes these electrical issues after a while in the summer. So don't want to have to avoid sunlight my whole life

The most common answer for a fix is magnesium. so I tried many different forms in many doses it doesn't help - actually I am 100% sure magnesium makes the electric issues way worse. It got to a point when trying mid-high dose magnesium my heart was beating so erratically & the twitches got so out of control I thought I was going to die in bed that night. so dropped that.

First thought on fixing this is through electrolytes so I independently tried: magnesium (many forms), potassium citrate and potassium bicarbonate (extra 1.5g potassium for months, which im pretty sure gave me unrelated issues), moderate doses of calcium, higher doses of vitamin K2 to bind calcium, vitamin A (can't remember if the dose was high enough for this one though). but none of these helped.


The only thing that has worked so far is avoiding all sunlight & vitamin D for months - and 90% of the symptoms stopped.

I restarted the D3 at 2000iu just to make 100% sure and within a few weeks all symptoms came back again. (my levels were 30ng shortly into starting again).

dropped all D3, but now it's summer even natural sunlight is giving me the same problems. so I still need to fix this. Looking around at forums there's clearly a subset of people who get electrical symptoms from vitamin D FOR SOME REASON there's some extreme response happening somewhere. a lot of the time magnesium is recommended and a lot of the time people report back it doesn't help. trying to figure out the connection / solution.


Any ideas on what's going on here / what could be the fix? has this happened to anyone else here who found a solution?

some posts in this forum mention hypercalcemia (usually seen with high blood levels of D but maybe not for some people) - well if this was the problem the K2 should have worked right? a higher dosed Vit A + Vit K1 combo should work as another approach I guess. so currently i'm gonna try 15,000iu vitamin A combined with 1mg k1. maybe b12 is something else worth a go but my dietary intake / blood levels has always been good so.

what else could be causing this?

 

[Sumbody]

If there's a forum that can help me solve this it's this one . Vitamin D gives me twitching / spasming all over my body hands & face, & involuntary jolts of movement in my feet too especially when laying down. and regular moments of sharp heart pain with rhythm issues from whatever it does to my body, (had a scan and structurally my heart is fine but there's electrical issues).

the past few years this lasts for periods of months / I guess until my vitamin D levels are falling again. maybe I could accept having to have low vit D levels to prevent it happening, but even natural sunlight causes these electrical issues after a while in the summer. So don't want to have to avoid sunlight my whole life

The most common answer for a fix is magnesium. so I tried many different forms in many doses it doesn't help - actually I am 100% sure magnesium makes the electric issues way worse. It got to a point when trying mid-high dose magnesium my heart was beating so erratically & the twitches got so out of control I thought I was going to die in bed that night. so dropped that.

First thought on fixing this is through electrolytes so I independently tried: magnesium (many forms), potassium citrate and potassium bicarbonate (extra 1.5g potassium for months, which im pretty sure gave me unrelated issues), moderate doses of calcium, higher doses of vitamin K2 to bind calcium, vitamin A (can't remember if the dose was high enough for this one though). but none of these helped.


The only thing that has worked so far is avoiding all sunlight & vitamin D for months - and 90% of the symptoms stopped.

I restarted the D3 at 2000iu just to make 100% sure and within a few weeks all symptoms came back again. (my levels were 30ng shortly into starting again).

dropped all D3, but now it's summer even natural sunlight is giving me the same problems. so I still need to fix this. Looking around at forums there's clearly a subset of people who get electrical symptoms from vitamin D FOR SOME REASON there's some extreme response happening somewhere. a lot of the time magnesium is recommended and a lot of the time people report back it doesn't help. trying to figure out the connection / solution.


Any ideas on what's going on here / what could be the fix? has this happened to anyone else here who found a solution?

some posts in this forum mention hypercalcemia (usually seen with high blood levels of D but maybe not for some people) - well if this was the problem the K2 should have worked right? a higher dosed Vit A + Vit K1 combo should work as another approach I guess. so currently i'm gonna try 15,000iu vitamin A combined with 1mg k1. maybe b12 is something else worth a go but my dietary intake / blood levels has always been good so.

what else could be causing this?

I have this issue from time to time. Seems to happen when my eltrolytes are all messed up. I work outside and often sweat a lot.

When this happens, and if it keeps me from falling asleep, I will dissolve roughly a 1/4 tsp or more of salt, preferably Celtic Sea salt, into about an ounce or two of warm water and drink it.

Not only does the salt help you fall asleep by lowering cortisol, it seems to stop the twitching as well.

 

[L91]

Full b complex, I can't tolerate magnesium without b vitamins. I think especially B1, but I also can't take that alone. So a b complex to tolerate magnesium, magnesium to tolerate D. Along with maybe k2 and A, A from liver...

 

[Lejeboca]

@cs3000 , I agree with @L91, B-complex would be helpful (in addition to L91's reason and B's affinity to nerves, UVR may degrade folate).

I did have an eyelid twitching after high vit D intake. Hypericum perforatum as ethanol tincture 3 drops daily until the symptom disappeared resolved this problem for me (in addition to lowering my D from 5,000 IU to 1K or 2K IU daily). You could try Hypericum 30C when symptoms appear instead of tincture.

 

[cs3000]

Seen another possible angle to this - heavy metals

I've looked into heavy metal toxicity recently, got me thinking "i wonder if the twitching gets worse on low calories?" and also "i wonder if vitamin D has anything to do with heavy metals". looked it up and yeah it does:

The role of vitamin D in toxic metal absorption: a review
vitamin D stimulates the co-absorption of other essential minerals like magnesium, iron, and zinc; toxic metals including lead, cadmium, aluminum, and cobalt; and radioactive isotopes such as strontium and cesium.

So theoretically if people who get these twitches from vit d also have high toxic metals exposure from foods water supplements air or existing high/borderline-high levels - elevation of vit D would increase absorption and tip levels over into even more harmful levels. ?plus if on a caloric deficit a lot of the time well those fat cells are getting broken down and releasing more metals & other toxic elements? to **** ***t up, or toxic metals from bone if bone being broken down too.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17450235/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-3-uid-2
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17450235/#&gid=article-figures&pid=figure-8-uid-7

And no metal storage in fat tissue is not a myth -> Adipose tissue concentrations of arsenic, nickel, lead, tin, and titanium in adults from GraMo cohort in Southern Spain: An exploratory study | Health & Environmental Research Online (HERO) | US EPA

- In ALL 228 people's fat samples they all contained 4/5 of the heavy metals tested for including lead and 51% of them contained the 5th one arsenic too

This exploratory study provides the first evidence of the occurrence of Ni, Pb, Sn, Ti, and As in adipose tissue from adult population, and highlights the potential of this tissue as a biological matrix for studying exposure levels and chronic health effects of toxic metal(loid)s.

another one Adipose tissue: another target organ for lead accumulation? A study on Sardinian children (Italy) - PubMed As an environmental pollutant, lead occurs in two different chemical forms: inorganic and organic lead; organic lead is present in the environment mainly as lead-alkyls (tetramethyl and tetraethyl lead). The lead-alkyls are characterized by their liposolubility; because of this characteristic, the behavior of organic Pb in the organism is similar to that of persistent organic pollutants. the study sample consisted of 759 children. This results suggests that organic lead tends to accumulate in adipose tissue, although it would be appropriate to measure lead levels in the adipose tissue itself in order to verify the results. Hence this tissue could be considered a possible new biological matrix for the evaluation of environmental lead exposure.

So i guess one way to see is get heavy metals test, get on chelators, & ensure consistent caloric surplus

--
Update for calcification angle - So far since posting i tried Vit A + K1 + K2 mk-4 + calcium combo. The vitamin A made me feel dodgy like i've noticed before with a different brand, there's a good post on here about the retinyl ester forms having less regulated distribution in the body. so swapped that out for liver to get the retinol form.
K1 gave me crazy anxiety spike for some reason very noticeable , pushed through with it for weeks but had to drop it. and K2 mk-4 made me feel more tired / dizzy lightheaded on a boat feeling (which some other people mention on here too. idk the mechanism behind this). stuck with it too for as long as possible but had to drop it.
calcium i noticed made me way more tired after taking too so good for night time but not otherwise in my case, and not good for constipation issue i've had all year anyway. anyway was on all of them for ~2 weeks, didn't do anything actually it's been worse. I had a repeating spasm in the exact same spot for 2 days almost non stop (maybe when i was on highest calcium intake?). cut out starches for 6 days so far and still getting twitches everywhere (occasional sharp electric heart pain too).

(probably too little time on the combo?) - takes 2 weeks to fully carboxylate / reduce uncarboxylated proteins so seems you'd be preventing ongoing calcification from there but correction from existing soft tissue calcification would still need to unfold over time i'd assume. i saw famotidine / cimetidine reversed calcification in tendons with significance at 2 months and clearance at 5 months (but lowers stomach acid which usually gives a protective environment so would need to be paired with something to counter this. i have gut issues too so don't wanna **** around too much atm).
for now i'm sticking with the daily liver so retinol over time might be able to work somewhat. and maybe i'll try mk-7 again for longer, 100mcg+.


(also for the replies ty, but i've got b1 covered with a supplement, have ate yeast extract & fortified products all of life so probably got most of them covered. salt changes doesn't affect this either. idk about st johns wort because of it's serotonergic activity. i tried it before & looked at notes, wrote i had high general anxiety during it but wasn't 100% sure if it was because of that - could be worth a try i guess but maybe it was just the lowering of the D3 responsible for most of that effect stopping your eyelid twitch)

 

[FitnessMike]

stop vit D lol, I read somewhere it might upset mineral balance if you take it and get a lot of dairy, but aspirin at decent doses stops muscle twitches for me, black cumin seed oil seem to be helping too with it.

 

[Sergey]

If there's a forum that can help me solve this it's this one . Vitamin D gives me twitching / spasming all over my body hands & face, & involuntary jolts of movement in my feet too especially when laying down. and regular moments of sharp heart pain with rhythm issues from whatever it does to my body, (had a scan and structurally my heart is fine but there's electrical issues).

the past few years this lasts for periods of months / I guess until my vitamin D levels are falling again. maybe I could accept having to have low vit D levels to prevent it happening, but even natural sunlight causes these electrical issues after a while in the summer. So don't want to have to avoid sunlight my whole life

The most common answer for a fix is magnesium. so I tried many different forms in many doses it doesn't help - actually I am 100% sure magnesium makes the electric issues way worse. It got to a point when trying mid-high dose magnesium my heart was beating so erratically & the twitches got so out of control I thought I was going to die in bed that night. so dropped that.

First thought on fixing this is through electrolytes so I independently tried: magnesium (many forms), potassium citrate and potassium bicarbonate (extra 1.5g potassium for months, which im pretty sure gave me unrelated issues), moderate doses of calcium, higher doses of vitamin K2 to bind calcium, vitamin A (can't remember if the dose was high enough for this one though). but none of these helped.


The only thing that has worked so far is avoiding all sunlight & vitamin D for months - and 90% of the symptoms stopped.

I restarted the D3 at 2000iu just to make 100% sure and within a few weeks all symptoms came back again. (my levels were 30ng shortly into starting again).

dropped all D3, but now it's summer even natural sunlight is giving me the same problems. so I still need to fix this. Looking around at forums there's clearly a subset of people who get electrical symptoms from vitamin D FOR SOME REASON there's some extreme response happening somewhere. a lot of the time magnesium is recommended and a lot of the time people report back it doesn't help. trying to figure out the connection / solution.


Any ideas on what's going on here / what could be the fix? has this happened to anyone else here who found a solution?

some posts in this forum mention hypercalcemia (usually seen with high blood levels of D but maybe not for some people) - well if this was the problem the K2 should have worked right? a higher dosed Vit A + Vit K1 combo should work as another approach I guess. so currently i'm gonna try 15,000iu vitamin A combined with 1mg k1. maybe b12 is something else worth a go but my dietary intake / blood levels has always been good so.

what else could be causing this?

I have seen some anecdotal reports that taking vitamin D causes herpes reactivation. Had somewhat similar reaction myself.

Vit D supplementation seem to increase arginine levels at and arginine is a well known trigger for anyone with herpetic issues (twitching and “electrical”-current-like feeling always make me think of reactivated herpes). Sunlight is also a well known herpes trigger, probably related not only to its vitamin d stimulating effects. Hypomethylating effects of uv seem to play a role in viral replication as well.
When you experience those symptoms you could try couple of grams of lysine on empty stomach or 2-3 tablets of valtrex. Finding out that some of one’s problems are related to herpes could be a very important discovery.
If its herpes related then over-drinking coffee could also be a problem, as well as high arginine/citrulline foods.

 

[freyasam]

Do you have an update on this?

I've been getting the muscle twitches all over my body for a few months now. Before that it was just eyelid twitches for years. I'm stopping vitamin d today as I'd wondered if that was increasing it. I have a lot of problems tolerating magnesium as well.

 

[Vanset]

Do you have an update on this?

I've been getting the muscle twitches all over my body for a few months now. Before that it was just eyelid twitches for years. I'm stopping vitamin d today as I'd wondered if that was increasing it. I have a lot of problems tolerating magnesium as well.

Check if they appear more often on days where you exert yourself. Everything from working out to carrying heavy groceries in hot weather etc.

Myoclonus, what to do?

Drinking milk does not solve eating grinded egg shells also does not solve supplementing magnesium 240-480mg a day does NOTHING i always have this problem(mildly), but when i started working, it intensified and then i could not work anymore, it was a disaster for me, since working was the only...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Zsazsa]

Your issues made me think of depletion of methyl groups. DMG or TMG can be easily tried. I would only recommend start low, the available dosages are just huge.

 

[TheSir]

I have had the same issue for years. Twitches and skipped beats begin soon after starting vit D and go away soon after discontinuing it. Mg, cal, salt, potassium, tmg, b vitamins, nothing seems to help.

 

[cs3000]

Do you have an update on this?
I've been getting the muscle twitches all over my body for a few months now. Before that it was just eyelid twitches for years. I'm stopping vitamin d today as I'd wondered if that was increasing it. I have a lot of problems tolerating magnesium as well.

I have had the same issue for years. Twitches and skipped beats begin soon after starting vit D and go away soon after discontinuing it. Mg, cal, salt, potassium, tmg, b vitamins, nothing seems to help.

tl;dr I think broadly the electrical/twitching issues point to a big lack of ATP & CO2. and if magnesium isnt the fix or worsens it i think for other people its about ensuring vit a isnt too low or too high + restoring copper & iron (getting cells to produce enough ATP&Co2 again).

Reading what ray wrote about effects of ATP/CO2 on cells got me thinking about this. . Ray wrote about how when the ATP/Co2 production in the cell is high the cell can shift to a relaxed state. if u think about this intuitively well when things die & cells have no ATP their bodies tighten up permanently. maybe this is whats happening to the body on a micro scale / duration.
first thing thats mentioned with vitamin D electrical problems is magnesium - good for some worsens for others. maybe the magnesium is what 1 subset of people needed to fix their atp issue. and have good copper levels. but theres another subset.
ive seen some forum posts of iron or copper helping twitches & heart fuckery
eg https://www.reddit .com/r/BFS/comments/j812lr/my_experience_with_iron_supplements/
https://www.reddit .com/r/MuscleTwitch/comments/15mx07k/i_had_muscle_twitching_for_almost_two_years_and_i/

1. copper & iron is vital for mitochondria functioning to be able to produce atp & co2.
(copper for cytochrome oxidase iron for ability of cell to have good t3 levels etc).
2. vitamin a can increase ATP7a , atp7a expression is what exports copper from cells so its mobilized
3. vitamin d can increase CRT1, ctr1 imports copper into cells / intestinal cells. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9804020/​

when low vit a levels are corrected copper absorption goes up. when big amounts of vitamin a are given copper absorption goes down. when vitamin d is given to people copper absorption goes up.
So maybe when Vit a is overloaded copper gets ****88 because it throws the vit d out of whack. here atp7a is good but crt1 gets taken out due to the disbalance with D. so copper export but no import. both import + export needed to get into circulation through intestinal enterocytes.

and i think when we take vitamin D with low vitamin a the reverse happens but outcome is the same. copper gets ****88 because crt1 import is good but atp7a export gets thrown out of whack. import but no export. you need both working properly for copper. and you need copper for iron. and you need both for atp&co2. and you need enough atp & co2 so cells are relaxed and excitotoxic stuff is balanced.

so either vitamin out of balance too far can **** mitochondria starting with copper depletion

but obviously just because we get vit a & d to a good balance and have enough intake of both that might not be enough ,
(we actually need good copper & iron intake > what we use & waste while its being absorbed & mobilized).

- why does vitamin d raise CTR1 for more copper import? to me that says it increases the usage of / need for copper so makes a deficiency even worse. and the increase of intracellular calcium cant help the atp deficit either. & as an extra vit d also increases absorption of cadmium which counters copper if significant.
- and on top of that too much magnesium-copper ratio increases copper loss Copper Absorption as Affected by Supplemental Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese, Selenium and Potassium on top of the 0.5mg - 1.5mg loss a day already

Although much of the secreted copper is reabsorbed, 0.5–1.5 mg/day end up in the faeces

The average total copper content of the human body is estimated at 75 mg (range 50–120 mg)
Copper absorption occurs predominantly in the duodenum (ppl fed through intestine only get copper deficient)


?does high fructose diet inhibit copper?
in humans not really it's mild, mainly only in rats where it inhibits ctr-1. in pigs it doesnt and pigs digestive systems are more similar to humans. and shown in human study @ 20% fructose

in humans 20% of diet as fructose ~100g has minimal effect on copper https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002916523198133#:~:text=In humans fructose consumed as,the criteria of copper status.

"High-fructose diets exacerbated copper deficiency in male rats, but not in pigs whose gastrointestinal system is anatomically and functionally more like humans."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4025196/
Does not effect ceruloplasmin or serum copper but does start to effect SOD at 1mg copper intake

Fructose ingestion had no effect on serum ceruloplasmin activity or serum copper concentration but did significantly reduce cuprozinc superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity of erythrocytes as compared to starch

? what is good daily copper intake is 1mg enough?
1mg copper intake is too low
4/24 ppl experienced heart abnormalities on 20% fructose 1mg copper diet.
* go for closer to 2mg
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...evay/75373799a809304830590e3b4dc924024703295a

Men and women fed diets close to 1 mg of copper per day, amounts quite frequent in the US, responded similarly to deficient animals with reversible, potentially harmful changes in blood pressure control, cholesterol and glucose metabolism, and electrocardiograms, which are sufficient for establishing an RDA.

low copper diet = all the issues that come from mitochondria dysfunction. and eventually heart problems (irregular), and progresses to numbness and weakness issues starting at feet and legs.
reddit post mentioned the heart issues fixed by copper. https://www.afibbers.org/resources/copper.pdf


? do copper supplements work ?
Sort of. they work in 50% of people. which shows u theres not an inherent bioavailability issue , just that the people with copper deficiency who aren't absorbing copper well (vit a & d unbalance or possibly a deficiency in both) dont absorb the supps well enough either

Oral copper supplementation restored normal or near-normal copper levels in 7 of the 12 patients in whom adequate follow-up data were available
Therapeutic efficacy does not appear to be influenced by the type of copper compound administered. Oral copper gluconate did not influence serum copper levels in normal volunteers [62]. Whilst this finding was previously interpreted as signifying poor bioavailability [38, 88], it appears to merely reflect intact copper homeostasis through biliary excretion in a copper-replete study population.

In the fourth case, malabsorption was not specific to copper: the patient was cachectic and exhibited concomitant deficiencies of iron, vitamin D and vitamin E.

copper citrate mentioned earlier by someone who fixed their electric issues only has a small amount of citrate like 6mg to 2.5mg copper. supplement form worked in chicks Copper sulfate and cupric citrate supplementation improves growth performance, nutrient utilization, antioxidant capacity and intestinal microbiota of broilers
citrate can inhibit ceruloplasmin i think. so might want to watch orange juice intake for a while which has ~8g per litre. along with the vit c content which can lower ceruloplasmin activity. maybe adding some baking soda can help lower the citrate content.


low zinc diet should be helpful during the first few weeks (can use cronometer). and dietary iron intake mostly away from copper maybe? but didnt effect the bioavailbility of copper in liver for chicks. pork liver doesnt work to raise copper (the zinc), where sheep liver was absorbed best. chicken liver doesnt have enough copper. & good to ensure have good biotin intake for copper and riboflavin levels for iron.

in general, the copper in fresh beef, sheep, or poultry liver was highly available, but that in pork liver was totally unavailable. Cu from pork liver has low bioavailability compared with other sources due to high concentration of Zn in the liver, which may inhibit Cu availability
Relative bioavailability of Cu in FD beef, sheep, and turkey liver was 82, 113, and 83%, respectively.= (in chicks) Estimates of copper bioavailability from liver of different animal species and from feed ingredients derived from plants and animals - PubMed

 

[youngsinatra]

I believe it‘s due to low thyroid (T3) / low copper utilization / low oxidative metabolism (esp. cytochrome C oxidase) which results in a lack of ATP and CO2.
A high amount of ATP/CO2 is needed to keep magnesium inside the cell, which is the master/maestro of the electrolyte orchestra. (potassium, sodium, calcium..)

 

[youngsinatra]

All seems to come back to restoring copper metabolism.
But it’s so tricky to resolve.

 

[Peatress]

I believe it‘s due to low thyroid (T3) / low copper utilization / low oxidative metabolism (esp. cytochrome C oxidase) which results in a lack of ATP and CO2.
A high amount of ATP/CO2 is needed to keep magnesium inside the cell, which is the master/maestro of the electrolyte orchestra. (potassium, sodium, calcium..)

Nice - poetic.

 

[cs3000]

I believe it‘s due to low thyroid (T3) / low copper utilization / low oxidative metabolism (esp. cytochrome C oxidase) which results in a lack of ATP and CO2.
A high amount of ATP/CO2 is needed to keep magnesium inside the cell, which is the master/maestro of the electrolyte orchestra. (potassium, sodium, calcium..)

All seems to come back to restoring copper metabolism.
But it’s so tricky to resolve.

yeh thats what i arrived at also (copper and iron function for atp & co2 - interrelated to vit a & d balance).
ray wrote about how putting dead muscles into a solution of ATP caused them to relax "“Szent-Gyorgyi observed that, although ATP was involved in the contractions of muscles, its post-mortem disappearance caused the contraction and hardening of muscle known as rigor mortis. When he put hardened dead muscles into a solution of ATP, they relaxed and softened. The relaxed state is a state with adequate energy reserves."

tl;dr I think broadly the electrical/twitching issues point to a big lack of ATP & CO2. and if magnesium isnt the fix or worsens it i think for other people its about ensuring vit a isnt too low or too high + restoring copper & iron (getting cells to produce enough ATP&Co2 again). Reading what ray wrote about effects of ATP/CO2 on cells got me thinking about this. . Ray wrote about how when the ATP/Co2 production in the cell is high the cell can shift to a relaxed state. if u think about this intuitively well when things die & cells have no ATP their bodies tighten up permanently. maybe this is whats happening to the body on a micro scale / duration.

and if there's high extracellular magnesium combined with even more supplemental magnesium, = further copper loss on top of already being in a deficiency. which would explain severe reaction to magnesium the other subset of ppl get

- why does vitamin d raise CTR1 for more copper import? to me that says it increases the usage of / need for copper so makes a deficiency even worse. and the increase of intracellular calcium cant help the atp deficit either. & as an extra vit d also increases absorption of cadmium which counters copper if significant.

- and on top of that too much magnesium-copper ratio increases copper loss Copper Absorption as Affected by Supplemental Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese, Selenium and Potassium on top of the 0.5mg - 1.5mg loss a day already