Can Someone Help Me Out With T3, Does It Cause Shutdown? Overall Help Is Really Appreciated

[sele]

caffeine is not tolerated by me , when i take it i cant concentrate on my job at all and start making mistakes

Looks like you need to work on your glycogen storage before you can touch caffeine or T3.
Search for haidut's posts on increasing liver glycogen. PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless

can the fatigue be lifted any other way? i dont have the money right now for biotin and b1.

Don't eat eggs till you can get some biotin.
Can you take 1/4 tsp baking soda in some water first thing in the morning?
It will help with lactic acid problem.
Bag breathing for 2 minutes twice a day may also help.
b1-100-mg-tablets
They're not the best but they are under $5 if you're in the USA.

 

[sele]

How much someone would have to take to fully replace t3 production? On other words, how much t3 does the body produce a day? So much conflicting info online, some say 25 mcg, others say up to 50. T4 is just storage hormone right? So it doesnt do anything but produce t3 ?

If you use some T3 it's important to keep each dose small, while watching for changes in your pulse and temperature. Usually 4 or 5 mcg at a time is o.k. (the body makes about 4 mcg per hour).

...when cells aren't getting enough glucose, T4 can't be converted to the active T3, and so it can build up in the body to levels that interfere with metabolism...

-from RP's email

 

[REOSIRENS]

cronometer shows magnesium on 800 mgs today and potassium om 8000 mgs , thiamine on 2,1 mgs.....

When taking thyroid if you feel chronic fatigue or restless leg syndrome... It time to take mag potassium and thiamine(low doses)... Even if your tests seem showing everything fine... Because if your body feel like not having these nutrients you need to respond supplying them but in low doses to not cause imbalance... And try to take the lowest dose of t3 possible to start... T3 and Progesterone are strong metabolic boosters so they need plenty of glucose to not cause problems

 

[tara]

Before considering supplementing thyroid, have you assessed whether you thyroid function is already in a healthy range?

Is it safe to take say 25mcg a day throughout the day ? Doesnt it cause shutdown of the thyroid gland?

Some people, including Peat, have reported getting heart-related symptoms when supplementing T3 only (without T4). Others do fine with it.
Supplementing thyroid while restricting nutrition can result in deficiencies. If the deficiency is calories, and you are working your muscles, then other lean tissue may be sacrificed to provide fuel, with potentially negative effects if pushed too far.
Like sele, I would expect that endogenous production of thyroid hormones would be reduced if you consistently supplement T3 at a level that raises metabolism above the level your body currently considers appropriate, and that if there is no structural damage, the endogenous production would ramp up again within a few days when yif you stop the supplement. Broda Barnes used NDT, and recommended targetting waking temps of 97.8-98.2, because otherwise endogenous production would likely reduce.

I get reall real lethargic after consuming sugar/milk/oj... Is this due to a slow metabolsim? cant concentrate on the job or even get of the couch

Don't know. Could be various things - a couple of possibilities: . Eg. maybe you were running on stress hormones, and the sugar and milk provided your body with it's needs in a way that allowed it to reduce stress hormones and allow you to rest. Or maybe you have some allergy or intolerance (large amounts of milk can make me dozy and unable to concentrate)

can you also take 12,5 t3 and 50 t4 , 3times a day?

AIUI, the body makes ~3-4 mcg T3 /hr, and the alf life is not terribly long. Supplementing more than that in one go would likely be more than a physiologic dose (though apparently necessary for some people).
May be able to avoid counterproductive spikes (that the body is likely to want to defend itself from) by taking much smaller doses, eg 1-2mcg, more often. I would not jump to such high doses quickly - start much smaller and only increment the T4 component (longer half-life) after at least 2 weeks.

If you decide to try this experiment, I'd favour monitoring temps and heart-rate regularly, and not pushing it too high. AIUI, it is harder to untangle the mess after overdosing.

Supplementing to increase metabolism above 'normal' levels, wherever they are, is experimental, and possibly might entail some risk. Taking too much thyroid hormone can be hazardous. I'd also recommend reading more so you understand what you are doing before you embark on it, and having someone around who will notice if you are in trouble and give relevant help.

 

[thms]

Before considering supplementing thyroid, have you assessed whether you thyroid function is already in a healthy range?


Some people, including Peat, have reported getting heart-related symptoms when supplementing T3 only (without T4). Others do fine with it.
Supplementing thyroid while restricting nutrition can result in deficiencies. If the deficiency is calories, and you are working your muscles, then other lean tissue may be sacrificed to provide fuel, with potentially negative effects if pushed too far.
Like sele, I would expect that endogenous production of thyroid hormones would be reduced if you consistently supplement T3 at a level that raises metabolism above the level your body currently considers appropriate, and that if there is no structural damage, the endogenous production would ramp up again within a few days when yif you stop the supplement. Broda Barnes used NDT, and recommended targetting waking temps of 97.8-98.2, because otherwise endogenous production would likely reduce.


Don't know. Could be various things - a couple of possibilities: . Eg. maybe you were running on stress hormones, and the sugar and milk provided your body with it's needs in a way that allowed it to reduce stress hormones and allow you to rest. Or maybe you have some allergy or intolerance (large amounts of milk can make me dozy and unable to concentrate)



AIUI, the body makes ~3-4 mcg T3 /hr, and the alf life is not terribly long. Supplementing more than that in one go would likely be more than a physiologic dose (though apparently necessary for some people).
May be able to avoid counterproductive spikes (that the body is likely to want to defend itself from) by taking much smaller doses, eg 1-2mcg, more often. I would not jump to such high doses quickly - start much smaller and only increment the T4 component (longer half-life) after at least 2 weeks.

If you decide to try this experiment, I'd favour monitoring temps and heart-rate regularly, and not pushing it too high. AIUI, it is harder to untangle the mess after overdosing.

Supplementing to increase metabolism above 'normal' levels, wherever they are, is experimental, and possibly might entail some risk. Taking too much thyroid hormone can be hazardous. I'd also recommend reading more so you understand what you are doing before you embark on it, and having someone around who will notice if you are in trouble and give relevant help.

Thanks for laying that out, it makes a lot of sense now.

Would thyroid surrogates be a better alternative for my goal? (fatloss/ more energy/ wellbeing)

Or mabeye a product like Thyromax from idealabs??? (https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/tyromax-custom-liquid-thyroid-ndt-3x-usp.8940/)

any help is cwelcome thanks

 

[REOSIRENS]

Would thyroid surrogates be a better alternative for my goal? (fatloss/ more energy/ wellbeing)

Maybe tyrosine copper with phenylalanine and progesterone (very low dose) could be enough for you...

Good look my friend

 

[REOSIRENS]

Before considering supplementing thyroid, have you assessed whether you thyroid function is already in a healthy range?

Yeah... Tara you are right...

 

[thms]

question ive measured my heart rate today and it was 48 bpm...

isnt this really low / indicates low metabolism?

have you got any tips for raising it or should i get my thyroid levels checked? thank you for helping out

 

[Jsaute21]

@thms I would tell you to calm down. I Don't mean that in a condescending way but try not to approach the situation neurotically. I think taking t3 could potentially be helpful but should not be #1 on your priority list right now. As many smart people have remarked, fixing micronutrient deficiencies as well as making sure total calorie goals are reached is paramount. This for you as an active male probably involves 3500-4000 calories of predominantly carbohydrates, and at least 150 grams of protein. Micronutrient wise I recommend energin (haidut's b complex) as well as estroban (fat soluble complex.)

People telling you not to eat white rice is ignorant. If your body responds well to well cooked white rice don't deprive yourself of that. Focus predominantly on lean meats/fish, fruit juices, white sugar etc.

As a male that has gotten to 5% BF (naturally) I understand the obsession with body composition. However, that simply cannot be your #1 goal while trying to heal metabolism. Now you don't have to get fat..but need to drop the neruroticism regarding body composition if you want to heal correctly.

T3 is tricky to dose and though it may be extremely helpful, I think it is better if you wait until nutrition and vitamin supplementation is more nailed down.

 

[thms]

@thms I would tell you to calm down. I Don't mean that in a condescending way but try not to approach the situation neurotically. I think taking t3 could potentially be helpful but should not be #1 on your priority list right now. As many smart people have remarked, fixing micronutrient deficiencies as well as making sure total calorie goals are reached is paramount. This for you as an active male probably involves 3500-4000 calories of predominantly carbohydrates, and at least 150 grams of protein. Micronutrient wise I recommend energin (haidut's b complex) as well as estroban (fat soluble complex.)

People telling you not to eat white rice is ignorant. If your body responds well to well cooked white rice don't deprive yourself of that. Focus predominantly on lean meats/fish, fruit juices, white sugar etc.

As a male that has gotten to 5% BF (naturally) I understand the obsession with body composition. However, that simply cannot be your #1 goal while trying to heal metabolism. Now you don't have to get fat..but need to drop the neruroticism regarding body composition if you want to heal correctly.

T3 is tricky to dose and though it may be extremely helpful, I think it is better if you wait until nutrition and vitamin supplementation is more nailed down.

thank you! with what kind of diet / macrunitrient split did you get down to 5%?

i went to the doctor and bloodwork results are coming in this week

any things to keep an eye out for?

thank you all

 

[milk_lover]

Thyroid supplementation can be tricky! Initially you think wow this stuff is good but then once it builds up, you might get a crash. I would do what other people have suggested; focus on diet and take oil soluble and b vitamins. Little progesterone won't harm you I think. Coffee and aspirin are good alternatives to thyroid I think. Even with those, don't go overboard. Good luck.

 

[thms]

Thyroid supplementation can be tricky! Initially you think wow this stuff is good but then once it builds up, you might get a crash. I would do what other people have suggested; focus on diet and take oil soluble and b vitamins. Little progesterone won't harm you I think. Coffee and aspirin are good alternatives to thyroid I think. Even with those, don't go overboard. Good luck.

yes i dont want to go the t3 route either and want to cure it with food

any specific products you reccomend? maybye from haidut ?

how much aspirin should one take to stimulate metabolism ?

 

[Jsaute21]

@thms I hope you took more from my advice than 5% BF. I was highly functional surprisingly when I was that lean because of stress hormones. As Peat has intelligently noted, estrogen and stress hormones can cause hyper sexuality, euphoric mood, etc but the catch is it's very temporary. The body crashes. Body fat is a very superficial/empty goal. Everything derives from how do you feel every day when you wake up? Smart, sharp, happy etc? **** everything else. You are clearly very conflicted right now between superficial goals and health/functionality goals. Ultimately, you can accomplish both but not until you feel good consistently. I know this process seems overwhelming but in order to make true progress, looking like Steve reeves is going to have to be on the back burner. It sounds like you have a good physique already. I wish you luck and am hear to help as much as I can.

 

[milk_lover]

yes i dont want to go the t3 route either and want to cure it with food

any specific products you reccomend? maybye from haidut ?

how much aspirin should one take to stimulate metabolism ?

As for aspirin, I would start slowly and with food. By itself, it could create stomach irritation. Also, if you take glycine, coke/Pepsi or coffee with it, you might reduce irritation. I would say 80mg is a good start. I personally take 250mg almost daily with my heavy lunch! I can tolerate it much better now than a year ago.

I have experimented with many supplements and each supplement has its place in a different context, so I can't single one supplement that impressed me the most. You get the benefits, but sometimes there are downsides, so I would pay attention to how my body is reacting to a certain supplement and I would take them as much separately as I can to really know what supplement is working for me and what supplement is working against me.

 

[Jsaute21]

As for aspirin, I would start slowly and with food. By itself, it could create stomach irritation. Also, if you take glycine, coke/Pepsi or coffee with it, you might reduce irritation. I would say 80mg is a good start. I personally take 250mg almost daily with my heavy lunch! I can tolerate it much better now than a year ago.

I have experimented with many supplements and each supplement has its place in a different context, so I can't single one supplement that impressed me the most. You get the benefits, but sometimes there are downsides, so I would pay attention to how my body is reacting to a certain supplement and I would take them as much separately as I can to really know what supplement is working for me and what supplement is working against me.

Great advice.

 

[thms]

@thms I hope you took more from my advice than 5% BF. I was highly functional surprisingly when I was that lean because of stress hormones. As Peat has intelligently noted, estrogen and stress hormones can cause hyper sexuality, euphoric mood, etc but the catch is it's very temporary. The body crashes. Body fat is a very superficial/empty goal. Everything derives from how do you feel every day when you wake up? Smart, sharp, happy etc? **** everything else. You are clearly very conflicted right now between superficial goals and health/functionality goals. Ultimately, you can accomplish both but not until you feel good consistently. I know this process seems overwhelming but in order to make true progress, looking like Steve reeves is going to have to be on the back burner. It sounds like you have a good physique already. I wish you luck and am hear to help as much as I can.

yes i did take more from your post than only the 5% bodyfat part, i was just really curious how you got so low , thats all

i am focussing on getting adequate calories and not on fatloss right now, i am taking in roughly 3000 calories of wich 50 fats and 150 grams of protein.

foods are milk, oj, potatoes, gelatin, fruits like pears melons cherries, occasional rice and thats about it.

i have measurements close to what reeves had

been taking advice from this forum and went from 5-6 days a week excersise to 3 times and feeling better already.

ive went and looked more in to health when my hair started getting thinner and energy was low everyday also having no libido.

didnt notice much improvement in hair at the moment, dont know how to improve it much further , i am taking the daily carrot and taurine everyday also vitamin d, creatine, multi vitamin

 

[thms]

As for aspirin, I would start slowly and with food. By itself, it could create stomach irritation. Also, if you take glycine, coke/Pepsi or coffee with it, you might reduce irritation. I would say 80mg is a good start. I personally take 250mg almost daily with my heavy lunch! I can tolerate it much better now than a year ago.

I have experimented with many supplements and each supplement has its place in a different context, so I can't single one supplement that impressed me the most. You get the benefits, but sometimes there are downsides, so I would pay attention to how my body is reacting to a certain supplement and I would take them as much separately as I can to really know what supplement is working for me and what supplement is working against me.

thank you

ive taken 500 mgs of aspirin in the past but didn notice anything off of it..

or is it supposed to be that way? seems to me that with an increase of metabolism you should feel anything, when i take cafeine i feel a real diffrence

 

[Jsaute21]

yes i did take more from your post than only the 5% bodyfat part, i was just really curious how you got so low , thats all

i am focussing on getting adequate calories and not on fatloss right now, i am taking in roughly 3000 calories of wich 50 fats and 150 grams of protein.

foods are milk, oj, potatoes, gelatin, fruits like pears melons cherries, occasional rice and thats about it.

i have measurements close to what reeves had

been taking advice from this forum and went from 5-6 days a week excersise to 3 times and feeling better already.

ive went and looked more in to health when my hair started getting thinner and energy was low everyday also having no libido.

didnt notice much improvement in hair at the moment, dont know how to improve it much further , i am taking the daily carrot and taurine everyday also vitamin d, creatine, multi vitamin

To be honest i think you are off to a great start. Something i often have to tell myself is change doesn't happen over night. Your diet looks awesome and those are good supplements, assuming your multi vitamin is a decent quality. Things will be getting better for you soon. I had a bad experience with T3 personally. I think it is best avoided and saved for emergency situations. So many surragates for thyroid hormone with food, caffeine, aspirin, niacinamide, etc. Much like you, i have a heavy strength training/bodybuilding background with a pretty low pulse. I tried t3 and overall felt worse...

 

[thms]

To be honest i think you are off to a great start. Something i often have to tell myself is change doesn't happen over night. Your diet looks awesome and those are good supplements, assuming your multi vitamin is a decent quality. Things will be getting better for you soon. I had a bad experience with T3 personally. I think it is best avoided and saved for emergency situations. So many surragates for thyroid hormone with food, caffeine, aspirin, niacinamide, etc. Much like you, i have a heavy strength training/bodybuilding background with a pretty low pulse. I tried t3 and overall felt worse...

Is that you in your avatar? What do you do to keep libido / testosterone on the high side? you LOOK like you have high testosterone / androgens and great hair?

what is your diet like?

what do you do to raise pulse? mine is arond 60-70 right now and want to raise it more but dont know how, hope it comes overtime

 

[Jsaute21]

Is that you in your avatar? What do you do to keep libido / testosterone on the high side? you LOOK like you have high testosterone / androgens and great hair?

what is your diet like?

what do you do to raise pulse? mine is arond 60-70 right now and want to raise it more but dont know how, hope it comes overtime

That is in fact me. It was taken a couple of years back. As in about 6 years ago now but i still look pretty much the same. I believe i was born with reasonably high T but damaged my metabolism through neuroticism with fitness, food and calorie intake. (Pretty strange for a guy who was born naturally lean & strong.)

60-70 aint bad...and i think i remember you saying you were at 48 to start. Don't be the guy who loses sight of progress. It seems to me like you are already in the midst of healing but don't realize it. Libido & Testosterone are not directly related i do not care what anybody says. Don't get me wrong if your T is in the basement, you will have nonexistent libido. But as long as T/DHT/metabolism are respectable, libido is a highly variable subject that is related to sexual partner/confidence/dopamine levels etc. I have had periods of heavy drinking etc where i had extremely high libido and probably wasn't all that healthy.

I would tell you not to be obsessed with libido. Sex is something that should be spontaneous and not overly monitored. If your mind wants to think about it - it will. I would also recommend not spending too much time on this forum. I am going to cut back. I have somewhat OCD qualities and when i over obsess about health, my testosterone etc it ironically results in my libido lowering and my happiness dwindling. The studies & research are fascinating but if you think about most healthy people...they don't sweat the small stuff. Once you find what works for you, you will be an unstoppable force.