Low Toxin Videos Dr. David Stephens presentation

[purple pill]

I thought that was you too, but I wasn’t sure! I noticed today that he deleted his comments to me. I guess he realized he sounded like an **** after other people called him out. It killed me how when I mentioned that niacin used to be on the “never touch it, it’s poison and everyone that uses it is stupid”, list and now it’s a huge part of the program. Then he said, “don’t you twist my words. I don’t appreciate it. I only support one form of niacin! You must be new here, etc. Go eat your cupfuls of sugar and neglect your nutrients, just don’t come crying to me when you fail,” If I meant niacinamide, I would have said niacinamide. And then accusing me of twisting words, while literally twisting my words. No one said that they are going to eat cupfuls of sugar. Plenty of perfectly intelligent people were simply exploring a theory that could be helpful to some.

I was laughing to myself yesterday that if I kept going I was going to set a record for the quickest LYL ban. Thankfully I only signed up for the pay monthly so it would only be $9.99 down the drain.

Damn, I must've missed the replys to you before he deleted, sure I can guess how they went though lol.Yeah I was confused about his rant about the niacin bit, assumed it was some mental gymnastics to dodge the fact he flipped on nicotinic acid, weird!
The cupfuls of sugar was nonsense too, feel like I'm more driven on the glucose to eat better things, bigger meals more regularly without the urge to eat crap. Alot different from when I was drinking cans of coke and eating Hagan das lol

Quickest ban on lyl is starting to sound like a badge of honor

 

[mosaic01]

The community is larger than a single figure, and he likes to have his pay-to-join group where he's the king. His group is not a discussion forum, it's a place to receive his authoritative guidance as a Doctor, if you want that. He played an important role in establishing some essential concepts, other than that I don't see a relevance in discussing the persona.

Mosaic01 was nice enough to post that the average glucose dose Dr Stephen uses is about 250 grams which is 1000 calories.

Dr. Stephens more or less implies that this is around the average, but he has not given an exact number. 273g dextrose have 1000 calories, as some of it is water.

He says only 20% of his patients recover on 75g per day. And from the other numbers he gave, I assume that 200-300g is the average, and some people need 300-500g. It would be in line with the paper on liver and dextrose, which gave 300g as a reasonable therapeutic dose. Everything between 100-500g is in line with our physiology.

From the paper I shared:

 

[Peater]

Reading the last few posts, I like the fact that even though the forum has changed, it's nice to think it still has the calmness and inquisitiveness that Ray embodied.

I was disappointed he got nothing from Grant's work as even a layman like me could see he had a point, if you just step back from the studies for a bit. But, he wasn't rude, he just didn't personally see anything there. Once I'd read them, it was like a 500 watt floodlight blasting me in the face.

It just surprised me as people did the same thing to his (EXCELLENT) work regarding PUFAs, for years.

 

[DanDare]

And to this point, Ray Peat was probably asked plenty of dumb questions, yet he was kind and patient and didn’t treat the majority of people like they are complete idiots. The reason I didn’t look further into Low A five years ago is because I came across Garrett Smith and thought, “No way is something who is that angry all the time healthy.”

I wonder if regular high dose niacin does this tbh. Seems like an alt health statin to me.

 

[orangebear]

I wonder if regular high dose niacin does this tbh. Seems like an alt health statin to me.

Dr. Smith has been angry and cocky long before started high dose niacin. In fact, he used to deride niacin and those who took it as harshly and insultingly as eggs, seafood, and now glucose.

 

[lilrawhoney]

I wonder if regular high dose niacin does this tbh. Seems like an alt health statin to me.

I’ve actually been on the fence about niacin recently. I liked it when I first started taking it, but I noticed it was giving me the same type of adrenaline reaction I get when I drink coffee so I’m taking a break from it for now. I cut it for a week while I was starting dextrose and then tried to go back to it and same reaction. I’m not sure why.

But like orangebear said, plenty of Garrett’s earlier livestreams were all about calling anyone taking flush niacin a complete idiot who would severely injure themselves and “don’t come crying to him when you take it and damage yourself.” Now he’s all about it. You’d think that would be slightly humbling, but I guess not

 

[lilrawhoney]

Thank you, and I should've communicated my "trauma" better. Mine was self-inflicted mostly due to stupidity -- too many years of contact sports, falling out of trees, ATV riding with no helmet, etc.

Sorry for what you had to endure also. Very glad you're healing and for the family you're raising.

Ohhhh haha so truly physical trauma. I understand now On top of emotional trauma, I also had several concussions playing high level soccer, growing up so I have that working against me too. I recently sent Dr. Stephens book to my brother, because he’s had so many concussions I’ve lost count and he definitely struggles with his mental health.

Thank you so much for saying that

 

[orangebear]

I’ve actually been on the fence about niacin recently. I liked it when I first started taking it, but I noticed it was giving me the same type of adrenaline reaction I get when I drink coffee so I’m taking a break from it for now. I cut it for a week while I was starting dextrose and then tried to go back to it and same reaction. I’m not sure why.

But like orangebear said, plenty of Garrett’s earlier livestreams were all about calling anyone taking flush niacin a complete idiot who would severely injure themselves and “don’t come crying to him when you take it and damage yourself.” Now he’s all about it. You’d think that would be slightly humbling, but I guess not

What I found is that both niacin and niacinamide help to reduce my anxiety massively (like 90%), but that effect can be achieved with as little as 25mg, and doing more initially seemed to help me feel better, but after some time it tapered off and I can't tell much of a difference between a low or high dose.

 

[lilrawhoney]

What I found is that both niacin and niacinamide help to reduce my anxiety massively (like 90%), but that effect can be achieved with as little as 25mg, and doing more initially seemed to help me feel better, but after some time it tapered off and I can't tell much of a difference between a low or high dose.

Thank you! Maybe I’ll experiment with much lower doses and see how I feel.

 

[orangebear]

I just realized something.
Dr. Smith: fructose is bad for your liver
Dr. Smith: animal fat stores vitamin A; eat lean meat
Dr. Smith: you should get at least 50g of protein
Dr. Smith: excess glucose slows down ALDH; you’re stupid if you eat it

Also Dr. Smith: well of course you’ll be sick if you don’t eat enough; duh!

But the math doesn’t math!
I know he would say I’m twisting his words but perhaps he should speak a little less in hyperbole.

 

[DanDare]

Dr. Smith has been angry and cocky long before started high dose niacin. In fact, he used to deride niacin and those who took it as harshly and insultingly as eggs, seafood, and now glucose.

True

 

[DanDare]

I’ve actually been on the fence about niacin recently. I liked it when I first started taking it, but I noticed it was giving me the same type of adrenaline reaction I get when I drink coffee so I’m taking a break from it for now. I cut it for a week while I was starting dextrose and then tried to go back to it and same reaction. I’m not sure why.

But like orangebear said, plenty of Garrett’s earlier livestreams were all about calling anyone taking flush niacin a complete idiot who would severely injure themselves and “don’t come crying to him when you take it and damage yourself.” Now he’s all about it. You’d think that would be slightly humbling, but I guess not

I didn't notice much ( besides the flush) until I stopped taking it cold turkey, then I felt pretty low energy. But I had accidentally overdosed mistaking it for potassium citrate.

I am not happy taking foul tasting isolated chemicals thousands of times higher concentrations than could be found in nature based on people's theories and some dubious studies.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

You’d think that would be slightly humbling, but I guess not

In Garrett's defense, he has made a public apology about that topic on a few occasions during the livestreams. He admitted he was stubborn and eventually listened to what Kelsey had to say because of the volume of her research on it. Garrett has also said that he used to treat his patients with thousands of units of both vitamin A and D and that he of course feels bad about that, but he was just doing what he thought was best for the health of his patients in accordance with 'the research.' Before he read Grant Genereux's stuff, I'm sure he had initial pushback then, too.

Regardless of some of his hip-firing, he's still the only professional doctor that I've ever heard who says that his job as a doctor is to help his patients feel better because that's what they're paying him for... and as such, he doesn't ask them to 'double down' on therapies that make them miserable. He's mentioned before how he had a patient who was living outside her home to escape EMF and could only tolerate mangos, so he started with her from there.

Emotional speech is always worthy of consideration, but it shouldn't undermine someone's objective accomplishments via their client testimonies. Part of the reason why we have some new health principles to consider is because of Garrett, and the reason why Garrett put them together and shared them with the public is also because he's Garrett, so take the good with the good. If dextrose is a key, he'll get on board eventually because he seems to actually listen to his clients and adapt his practice, unlike virtually every other health speaker who will just drop your communication when you tell them that their suggestions aren't helpful for you.

I am not happy taking foul tasting isolated chemicals thousands of times higher concentrations than could be found in nature based on people's theories and some dubious studies.

+1 to this

 

[lilrawhoney]

In Garrett's defense, he has made a public apology about that topic on a few occasions during the livestreams. He admitted he was stubborn and eventually listened to what Kelsey had to say because of the volume of her research on it. Garrett has also said that he used to treat his patients with thousands of units of both vitamin A and D and that he of course feels bad about that, but he was just doing what he thought was best for the health of his patients in accordance with 'the research.' Before he read Grant Genereux's stuff, I'm sure he had initial pushback then, too.

Regardless of some of his hip-firing, he's still the only professional doctor that I've ever heard who says that his job as a doctor is to help his patients feel better because that's what they're paying him for... and as such, he doesn't ask them to 'double down' on therapies that make them miserable. He's mentioned before how he had a patient who was living outside her home to escape EMF and could only tolerate mangos, so he started with her from there.

Emotional speech is always worthy of consideration, but it shouldn't undermine someone's objective accomplishments via their client testimonies. Part of the reason why we have some new health principles to consider is because of Garrett, and the reason why Garrett put them together and shared them with the public is also because he's Garrett, so take the good with the good. If dextrose is a key, he'll get on board eventually because he seems to actually listen to his clients and adapt his practice, unlike virtually every other health speaker who will just drop your communication when you tell them that their suggestions aren't helpful for you.

+1 to this

Not arguing that, but criticizing how a person treats others isn’t undermining the work they do. Two things can be true at once. I can appreciate his work and the good things he has done and also condemn the way he speaks to people. Issuing a public apology for calling people complete idiots and then doing a complete 180 on that thing he called them idiots for, doesn’t make it okay when you repeat that cycle again and again. Obviously that apology meant nothing, because it surely didn’t teach him to keep more of an open mind and mind how he treats other people. Grant Genereaux has released his groundbreaking work without completing disparaging others. So have many others.

There’s a huge difference between, “I’m not promoting dextrose at this point. I prefer to be cautious. But I will keep an open mind and watch what happens with those who choose to experiment.” And then “dextrose is poison. It’s a drug. You’re all addicted and unintelligent idiots. Go eat your cups of sugar but don’t tell anyone you’re doing LYL, because you will damage yourself and then don’t come crying to me, morons.” I do lose a lot of respect for someone with that type of personality, because how can I truly trust your judgement? Even the argument he made to me for simply bringing up my experience sounded highly unintelligent and honestly slightly unhinged. Not the words of a man I really want to trust to help me heal. And there are plenty of people in LYL who have made little to no progress after years on the program so Garrett obviously doesn’t know everything. Karen Hurd has a better success rate simply cutting all supplements and using lots of beans. At this point I 100% believe in low A and the benefits of soluble fiber in the diet, but Garrett Smith is not the God that he believes he is. And all that being said, I do absolutely believe that on some level he does care and does want people to heal, but the way he acts makes you think are you truly doing this for others or are you doing it to feed your own ego?

 

[orangebear]

^ this!

 

[Mitchell777]

Nope, totally agree with you! I was just explaining my line of thinking in the past and why I think a lot of people are dissuaded from that community. For what it’s worth, I’ve heard that Grant Genereux is a great guy. Very humble and all around nice person. I’m just not a big fan of Garrett at this point. He responded to my comments in LYL yesterday like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum, and then when I stood my ground in a respectful way he deleted his comments. After that, I got a lot of messages in my inbox from people saying they’ve had bad experiences with him. The guy clearly has some issues, however I still appreciate a lot of his work and it’s not going to change what I’m doing health wise, because I’ve seen lots of positive changes going low A and I appreciate Charlie, and other people on the RP forum (like you) for showing me the light with the things you’ve all shared.

I’m so glad it’s not just me who finds Garrett unbearable sometimes. His arrogance and childish pitty like behaviour as a grown man is quite interesting from an outsiders view like me. I’m not in the LYL program and I’m glad I’m not. Even from reading other forum members comments about it, it seems like it’s a full on cult. You cannot say anything that would challenge Garretts thoughts and beliefs at that moment in time, otherwise he treats you like you are some sort of traitor and may even ban you!… it’s crazy. I only watch his YouTube videos and even then I have to skip parts as he rambles in this arrogant, blunt, know it all manner which makes him come across very unapproachable. Especially if you have some reach or idea you want to put across, if he doesn’t understand it he will flat out mock you or mock the idea.

Despite that, I respect the work he has put forth but he’s definitely not the who I thought he was. I’m glad it’s not just my perception as more and more comments I read about him, and watch myself solidifies my view on him.

I agree about Charlie showing the good that Garrett has done, but Charlie isn’t rude and childish haha. Manner is a huge part of life and shows the sort of person you are I believe.

 

[lilrawhoney]

I’m so glad it’s not just me who finds Garrett unbearable sometimes. His arrogance and childish pitty like behaviour as a grown man is quite interesting from an outsiders view like me. I’m not in the LYL program and I’m glad I’m not. Even from reading other forum members comments about it, it seems like it’s a full on cult. You cannot say anything that would challenge Garretts thoughts and beliefs at that moment in time, otherwise he treats you like you are some sort of traitor and may even ban you!… it’s crazy. I only watch his YouTube videos and even then I have to skip parts as he rambles in this arrogant, blunt, know it all manner which makes him come across very unapproachable. Especially if you have some reach or idea you want to put across, if he doesn’t understand it he will flat out mock you or mock the idea.

Despite that, I respect the work he has put forth but he’s definitely not the who I thought he was. I’m glad it’s not just my perception as more and more comments I read about him, and watch myself solidifies my view on him.

I agree about Charlie showing the good that Garrett has done, but Charlie isn’t rude and childish haha. Manner is a huge part of life and shows the sort of person you are I believe.

Something I appreciate about Charlie and just this forum in general, is that whenever someone mentions something they are having success experimenting with its always, “great work! Keep us updated! This could be a great tool.”

Garret comes across as if he doesn't want to promote anything that he doesn’t come up with himself, because God forbid someone else know something he doesn’t. If someone is having success with something that isn’t in his program then obviously that thing *slows ALDH* and that’s why they think it’s working. But if someone is having success with something he does recommend then it’s because the thing is good for you. But then if something he recommends makes you feel terrible it’s because you are detoxing and maybe just need to go slower. If something he doesn’t recommend makes you feel bad then you are definitely poisoning yourself you stupid idiot. Mega doses of niacin (a nutrient that the body probably needs) are great and are detoxing you. Mega doses of glucose (the single most important nutrient to the body) and you are stupid for even thinking about it. You’re just addicted to sugar and coping. What he says about glucose slowing ALDH makes zero sense, because ever since I’ve started it the quality of my bowel movements has improved significantly as has the regularity. Many people are reporting the same. Also if glucose slows ALDH so much then why are foods like white rice and banana staples of a Low A diet?

I went to a family gathering of my husband’s family today and normally I get bad social anxiety in situations with tons of people. Sugar and coffee make that anxiety 100 times worse. Today I noticed I was completely at ease, didn’t feel self conscious, was socializing comfortably. I had zero adrenaline dumps. I was sipping my dextrose all day. Thats HUGE for me.

I only recently joined LYL, but I don’t think I’ll stay after I finish the month. I will still watch the livestreams, but I refuse to ever be a part of nutrition cult again.

 

[Krigeren]

Something I appreciate about Charlie and just this forum in general, is that whenever someone mentions something they are having success experimenting with its always, “great work! Keep us updated! This could be a great tool.”

Garret comes across as if he doesn't want to promote anything that he doesn’t come up with himself, because God forbid someone else know something he doesn’t. If someone is having success with something that isn’t in his program then obviously that thing *slows ALDH* and that’s why they think it’s working. But if someone is having success with something he does recommend then it’s because the thing is good for you. But then if something he recommends makes you feel terrible it’s because you are detoxing and maybe just need to go slower. If something he doesn’t recommend makes you feel bad then you are definitely poisoning yourself you stupid idiot. Mega doses of niacin (a nutrient that the body probably needs) are great and are detoxing you. Mega doses of glucose (the single most important nutrient to the body) and you are stupid for even thinking about it. You’re just addicted to sugar and coping. What he says about glucose slowing ALDH makes zero sense, because ever since I’ve started it the quality of my bowel movements has improved significantly as has the regularity. Many people are reporting the same. Also if glucose slows ALDH so much then why are foods like white rice and banana staples of a Low A diet?

I went to a family gathering of my husband’s family today and normally I get bad social anxiety in situations with tons of people. Sugar and coffee make that anxiety 100 times worse. Today I noticed I was completely at ease, didn’t feel self conscious, was socializing comfortably. I had zero adrenaline dumps. I was sipping my dextrose all day. Thats HUGE for me.

I only recently joined LYL, but I don’t think I’ll stay after I finish the month. I will still watch the livestreams, but I refuse to ever be a part of nutrition cult again.

Oddly enough considering Garret's response to glucose, I think the Thor Torrens video with Dr Stephens was the or one of the first mentions of the Glucose protocol on here. From what I've seen, Thor has praised the low vA work of Garret and I assume Thor is a member of one of Garret's groups. Wonder what's going to come of that relationship?

 

[kamiak]

Oddly enough considering Garret's response to glucose, I think the Thor Torrens video with Dr Stephens was the or one of the first mentions of the Glucose protocol on here. From what I've seen, Thor has praised the low vA work of Garret and I assume Thor is a member of one of Garret's groups. Wonder what's going to come of that relationship?

Yes, Thor is in the group. And to my disappointment, he basically apologized for it "getting out of hand" and said he agrees with Garrett that it must just be slowing down ALDH and detox. He says he's interested in it for only some people, and that the tradeoff of slowing progress for some relief from any cognitive symptoms from detox or brain injury is worth it to him. But he basically said he's not recommending the protocol, it could just be a useful coping tool during the detox process. It basically just read like a giant backpedal on the interview to me, despite the fact that it sounds like he's going to be doing it himself to some extent.

 

[mosaic01]

Dr. Smith wrote:

"I think it is a mistake. Everything I'm finding indirectly suggests that the presence of excess glucose SLOWS ALDH, and therefore would slow bile production, and therefore would cause a Duration Paradox effect ("it feels so helpful and so amazing!!!"...just like a drug effect maybe? no one's ever made themselves feel better for a short time with SUGAR before, have they? that's SARCASM)"

Also "Make sure to blame Dr. Stephens and anyone else promoting this when it doesn't work out. Do not blame me. I will not hide my irritation when people come to me with problems after this nonsense. I am not surprised that Amanda Ross is involved with this at all. Until you realize I'm right, enjoy your slightly less sweet sugar."

He also said he does not trust Dr. Stephens at all and that there are forces that are trying to corrupt the movement and destroy it from within.

He provided no evidence and just stated his opinion that it's not part of his program.

Lia Miller has collected several anecdotes from people who got healed permanently with this.

Yes, Thor is in the group. And to my disappointment, he basically apologized for it "getting out of hand" and said he agrees with Garrett that it must just be slowing down ALDH and detox.

Thor wrote:

"I would say anyone who is afraid should not be doing it. They should only do it if they are comfortable and if it’s worth the risk / reward for them.

I think this definitely falls under the “crutch” category Dr Garrett Smith talks about. And I don’t think everyone needs it. Just people that are having brain and cognitive issues. Those that had concussions and or a lot of trauma."

Will is also backtracking:

"To be fair, I did sort of start this fad, but all the evidence points to what you say here."

Concerning how they are bowing down to him. That's not how knowledge is advanced.

Will now tries to find evidence contrary to his experiences with meaningless biochemistry mumbo jumbo instead of focusing on the empirical evidence and functions of glucose:


View: https://x.com/Will_of_Europa/status/1802916190727074091

Grant Genereaux has released his groundbreaking work without completing disparaging others. So have many others.

That's why I avoid the man. I do appreciate that he has a clear path for himself and draws a clear line though. The problem is when too many people follow this and don't diverge out of fear of making mistakes. You always make mistakes, no matter whether you follow someone else, or yourself.