"Iron And Gluten, The Toxic Tandem" Presentation By Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD

[tankasnowgod]

I just came across this excellent presentation by Dr. Thomas Levy, specifically about the issues with Iron Fortification of grains. In this talk, Dr. Levy specifically talks about how raw iron shavings are added to most fortified products, and this is insanely problematic. He makes the case that these shavings are basically foriegn bodies that are slicing up the gut (a major cause of Leaky Gut), and causing chronic inflammation, IN ADDITION to the problems that high amounts of iron can cause in the body.

He makes the case that this added iron is the main cause behind the explosion of celiac disease and gluten sensitivity, and that some gluten sensitive individuals **MAY** be able to start eating wheat again, after months of healing.

If you are at all interested in gluten, iron, or fortification, and the issues that come with them, this presentation is stellar-



As an addendum, here is an extraction of iron from Total cereal-

 

[burtlancast]

Levy often makes some very good points, but if you watched his "Death by calcium" presentations, he intentionally leads astray his audience.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

"True normal Ferritin range is 15-25"

Well well well. I had 15.7, I was a bit worried but now it seems a lot better. I am curious is anyone has contradictory information about ferritin levels.

 

[tankasnowgod]

"True normal Ferritin range is 15-25"

Well well well. I had 15.7, I was a bit worried but now it seems a lot better. I am curious is anyone has contradictory information about ferritin levels.

I'm not sure if that is the best range for Ferritin, but I have had Ferritin test in that range before (I believe 18), with normal hemoglobin, and had no sort of anemia like symptoms. I remember Anthony Colpo saying that when his Ferritin levels got too low, he didn't have as good performance when he was cycling, and recommended it be a bit higher if you were very active (I think around 40 or so).

 

[tankasnowgod]

Levy often makes some very good points, but if you watched his "Death by calcium" presentations, he intentionally leads astray his audience.

I haven't watched his Death by Calcium presentations yet, but I did get that feeling from what I have seen. Still, I am glad he is talking about the issues related to dumping raw iron in foods, as well as excess iron in general.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Okay, just scanned through Levy's "Death By Calcium" presentation (the 2014 one), and did notice some big oversights. First off, he does not even mention Parathyroid Hormone, or Prolactin. Both of those hormones are usually elevated (and causal) in soft tissue calcification. Vitamin K2 is only mentioned on one slide, which he rushed right through, no discussion of how K2 can prevent and reverse soft tissue calcification.

He didn't distinguish between supplemental calcium and dietary, as some supplemental forms may have issues that don't relate to dietary calcium.

He does mention that Calcium Channel Blockers also block iron, but does not discuss this idea much further. The iron blocking actions could be responsible for the majority of benefits observed by Calcium Channel Blockers.

I was much less impressed with the "Death By Calcium" presentation. Levy still makes good points in it, but I disagree with the overall message, and do think he left out some key issues when it comes to calcium metabolism and soft tissue calcification.

 

[yerrag]

"True normal Ferritin range is 15-25"

Well well well. I had 15.7, I was a bit worried but now it seems a lot better. I am curious is anyone has contradictory information about ferritin levels.

That are great values. I had to check my ferritin levels and the last test I had from 2 years back, it was at 202.

Since ferritin levels could go up as a result of chronic infection, I could associate my high ferritin with an infection. My dentist discovered 2 pockets of periodontal disease recently, and a month ago two of my teeth were pulled out. I'm hoping in my next test of ferritin it would go down. I hope it would. Otherwise, I would have to find other ways of lowering my ferritin level.

 

[tankasnowgod]

That are great values. I had to check my ferritin levels and the last test I had from 2 years back, it was at 202.

Since ferritin levels could go up as a result of chronic infection, I could associate my high ferritin with an infection. My dentist discovered 2 pockets of periodontal disease recently, and a month ago two of my teeth were pulled out. I'm hoping in my next test of ferritin it would go down. I hope it would. Otherwise, I would have to find other ways of lowering my ferritin level.

Interested in your results. I know in a cold or acute infection, it spikes, but it's pretty small. Might be a bigger spike with chronic infection.

 

[yerrag]

Interested in your results. I know in a cold or acute infection, it spikes, but it's pretty small. Might be a bigger spike with chronic infection.

I'll check back after a few months on this. It may take a while for ferritin levels to go down. I was looking at my neutrophils values over the years dating back to 15 years back. It has steadily increased from 50% to 74%. I believe it has to do with the latent periodontal infection. It is a chronic infection definitely. I'll have my neutrophil results next week. It's cheaper as well.

 

[dbh25]

"True normal Ferritin range is 15-25"

Well well well. I had 15.7, I was a bit worried but now it seems a lot better. I am curious is anyone has contradictory information about ferritin levels.

How do you feel? At a level of 15, I was exhausted/run down.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

How do you feel? At a level of 15, I was exhausted/run down.

A bit tired tbh. I sleep a lot and I'm bit lethargic, so consistent with your experience. How did you fix it?

 

[dbh25]

A bit tired tbh. I sleep a lot and I'm bit lethargic, so consistent with your experience. How did you fix it?

I'd stop any iron lowering strategies, like blood donation, and see how you feel in a few months. And follow up with another ferritin test. I think a level around 50 is better for me.

 

[yerrag]

I'll check back after a few months on this. It may take a while for ferritin levels to go down. I was looking at my neutrophils values over the years dating back to 15 years back. It has steadily increased from 50% to 74%. I believe it has to do with the latent periodontal infection. It is a chronic infection definitely. I'll have my neutrophil results next week. It's cheaper as well.

@tankasnowgod Today I got my CBC results. First of all, no ferritin results as the effect on ferritin levels from a chronic infection would take at least 3 months to be seen. At 1 month after my periodontal surgery (tooth removal in this case), I expected my WBC count to go down. And it sure did. From neutrophil of 67.5% 8 months ago (my last), it went down to 63.40%. This is the first time in 13 years, neutrophils went down. Yet, this is just the start of it going down and I'm still above optimal range of 40-60% (According to Dr. Weatherby's cheat sheet).

Will check back in 2 months with my ferritin levels.

 

[yerrag]

@tankasnowgod Today I got my CBC results. First of all, no ferritin results as the effect on ferritin levels from a chronic infection would take at least 3 months to be seen. At 1 month after my periodontal surgery (tooth removal in this case), I expected my WBC count to go down. And it sure did. From neutrophil of 67.5% 8 months ago (my last), it went down to 63.40%. This is the first time in 13 years, neutrophils went down. Yet, this is just the start of it going down and I'm still above optimal range of 40-60% (According to Dr. Weatherby's cheat sheet).

Will check back in 2 months with my ferritin levels.

I got my ferritin levels today and it went down to 179.30. The last taken was on Sept 9, 2016 at 201.88. About a 10% drop. I was expecting a lot lower value, but maybe it takes time to go down. This was a little less than 3 months after my periodontal infection was resolved. Would have to check back a year from now to see if ferritin levels would continue going down.

 

[Ella]

I got my ferritin levels today and it went down to 179.30. The last taken was on Sept 9, 2016 at 201.88. About a 10% drop. I was expecting a lot lower value, but maybe it takes time to go down. This was a little less than 3 months after my periodontal infection was resolved. Would have to check back a year from now to see if ferritin levels would continue going down.

@yerrag ferritin spikes rapidly during infection and yes takes time to come down. The anemia normalise quite quickly though; when well nourished.

The 85 yro lady with the giant cell arteritis (temporal arteritis) and the high CRP, her ferritin before infection was 15 then shot up to 160 during infection. Will be running ferritin again. It has been the most interesting case which has bought together all of Peat's teachings.

I suggested in an earlier post your thyroid function may look normal but may actual be kept elevated due to trying to clear the infection. Peat mentions the thyroid can become hyper when dealing with some sort of toxin. I saw this in my 85 yro lady. She always had low pulse and temps. She has a pathological relationship with food, but when fed well; pulse and temps improved (stubbornly) but I have never seen her pulse and temp reach the heights when dealing with the giant cell arteritis. Her pulse rate never went lower than 85 and temps 37 +. Her TSH <0.4, T4 over the range and T3 mid point. I want to run rt3 because her T4 is increasing, thus not converting to adequate T3 as her liver enzymes are slightly elevated. This is why I questioned whether your thyroid function was truly in the optimal range due to your low pulse and high bp. It would be useful to know your thyroid function status now the infectious teeth have been removed. My lady was never on thyroid hormone and thyroid suppression was due to her chronic under eating and low protein diet. When fed well; thyroid function was perfect and her energy through the roof. The following is Ray's comments on hyperthyroidism.

Thyroid Storm
My impression is that some of the articles describing thyroid storm were written by hysterical people who didn’t understand thyroid metabolism. After I had been exposed to a pesticide, I experienced a few weeks of hyperthyroidism, probably a normalizing process after the antithyroid toxin was gone. Besides washing my hair two or three times a day and eating a lot, I didn’t do anything. A few people I’ve known wanted to stop the symptoms without a drug; some of them drank a glass or two of cabbage juice for a couple of days, others ate liver once or twice a day.

Peat fixed it by washing his hair 2 - 3 x day and eating a lot. I had this lady eating every 3 hours and her blood pressure was perfect. She has battled with high blood pressure for most of her adult life. On wake-up always >180/100. Regular, easy to digest foods, afternoon comes down to 125/70 with no bp meds. During the infection, bp shot up to 220/120 and the only solution the dr could come up with was to increase blood pressure meds. I had the biggest fight with him and my client now has enough evidence to sue him for his negligence. He told me I was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Giant cell arteritis is rare but I was RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT!!

Sorry I didn't mean to hijack this thread but this case is so fascinating and reminds of your struggle to lower your bp.

BTW, a workshop I attended years ago (functional medicine) it was stated the optimal ferritin should 90. I don't know whether this has been revised down, but many don't feel energetic at the lower levels. I think what is more important is to have plenty cofactors on board to managed the trafficking of iron. Ferritin is the storage form of iron and the enzymes that release ferritin for use are flavin-dependent and negatively impacted by riboflavin deficiency. A UK found Riboflavin supplementation in young women significantly improved hemoglobin status.

However, riboflavin may not be wise during an infectious stage when iron is being tucked away as storage ferritin to prevent bacterial sequestration. This makes one wonder whether the increased dumping of riboflavin during an infection may part of the body's defense system in maintaining iron in storage as ferritin to prevent bacterial iron sequestration.

Those populations exposed to malaria parasite have a genetic adaptation to restrict absorption of riboflavin and this protects against malaria.

 

[Mary Lyn]

Hi Ella

Woud you mind saying more about your poisoning by pesticide please?

 

[Ella]

Hi Ella

Woud you mind saying more about your poisoning by pesticide please?

@Mary Lyn it was Ray Peat who was poisoned by pesticide and experienced the temporary hyperthyroid - not me. The 85 yro lady; the toxin was lipopolysaccharide from e. coli infection. Sorry if it wasn't clear. When I see elevated thyroid function I don't think WOW great thyroid function. I am suspicious now, thinking there is more going on. I think if thyroid is running hot; it is what is supposed to happen in trying to rid the body of an infectious agent or toxin and we should not seek to suppress thyroid function.

 

[Mary Lyn]

@Ella
I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me. I was poisoned myself and therefore have great respect for Ray Peat, in what he has done to keep himelf alive up till now. The man is a genius.

Agree with the rest of what you said. The body knows best.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I got my ferritin levels today and it went down to 179.30. The last taken was on Sept 9, 2016 at 201.88. About a 10% drop. I was expecting a lot lower value, but maybe it takes time to go down. This was a little less than 3 months after my periodontal infection was resolved. Would have to check back a year from now to see if ferritin levels would continue going down.

While I have heard many times that infections can spike ferritin, I haven't heard that ferritin levels would return to a lower level on their own. The entire reason ferritin increases during sickness and infections is to sequester iron from invading pathogens. So, I don't know why iron lowering techniques (things like phlebotomy, iron cheleators, or a low iron diet like Dr. Facchini used) wouldn't be helpful.

I was thinking again about this study where they gave vitamin C to test subjects, and instructed them to take the C with meals over a 16 week period. While single meal challenges show an increase in absorption, this study showed a few subjects that had dramatic declines in ferritin. I wonder if this was possibly related to a possible infection, and the C was finally able to bring those levels down?

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/bloodjournal/64/3/721.full.pdf?sso-checked=true

 

[yerrag]

This is why I questioned whether your thyroid function was truly in the optimal range due to your low pulse and high bp. It would be useful to know your thyroid function status now the infectious teeth have been removed.

Hi Ella, I've not been a fan of using the endocrine blood tests for gauging my thyroid. It costs a lot to get the rT3 test (upwards of $300 in Manila). And so I've resorted to using the ECG ( QTc <= 440 msec) as well as the Achilles tendon reflex test. First one just costs me less than $8, and the second one is free. I pass both these tests. My temperature reaches 37C during the day, and I wake up to 36.6C. My pulse is the one parameter that can be improved, being that it reaches a high of 75 at 5pm, but doesn't reach 80+ unless I'm on plenty of b3, or coffee. Would the ECG and Achilles test be different in my current state? Would it lie to me the way endocrine serum tests would?

While I have heard many times that infections can spike ferritin, I haven't heard that ferritin levels would return to a lower level on their own. The entire reason ferritin increases during sickness and infections is to sequester iron from invading pathogens. So, I don't know why iron lowering techniques (things like phlebotomy, iron cheleators, or a low iron diet like Dr. Facchini used) wouldn't be helpful.

I was thinking again about this study where they gave vitamin C to test subjects, and instructed them to take the C with meals over a 16 week period. While single meal challenges show an increase in absorption, this study showed a few subjects that had dramatic declines in ferritin. I wonder if this was possibly related to a possible infection, and the C was finally able to bring those levels down?

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/bloodjournal/64/3/721.full.pdf?sso-checked=true

It's hard for me to make a determination at this point. The last ferritin test was 2 1/2 years ago, and to compare my current test results to it leaves a big gap. For all we know, the ferritin value had already dropped before my periodontal infection was resolved. It would be another year before I can be more certain of the effect of resolving my periodontal crisis.