Does Germany Prove Peat Wrong?

[Homo Consumericus]

Chipsfrisch ungarisch - funny-frisch.de

Thanks.

In the Netherlands there is only total fat quantity and the saturated percentage of which given.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Interesting that they aren't super high PUFA. What exactly would be the main problem with a few Funny Frisch chips as a snack? Fattening effect of MUFA (I don't care, am skinny), or cancerous stuff from frying in them? Or MSG like components from the condiments (yeast extracts)?

 

[milkboi]

Thanks.

In the Netherlands there is only total fat quantity and the saturated percentage of which given.

Yeah, that's the norm here too. It's probably EU law.

 

[boris]

Yeah so we can spot the dangerous saturated fats and avoid them

...

@Homo Consumericus thanks! So, low and slow is the way to go.
Are these cancerous components also a problem in high heated coconut oil or beef fat?

 

[kyle]

I always thought it was the walkable culture in Europe that made them relatively fitter.

If youve never lived in the usa, you might not realize how most of the population is cordoned off into car dependency.

In most suburban areas you have to plan your day and drive somewhere to get some kind of outdoor exercise.

The better off at least walk their dog or hit the gym, but thats the exception.

As a result, minimal sun light, low muscle mass makes you even more susceptible to damage from stress like PUFA.

Our urban areas are also dreadful with outrageous cost of living and less than savory people milling about.

So people moved out to the suburbs and became the rootless consumers you Europeans, not without basis, stereotype Americans.

 

[kyle]

You could easily limit sunlight and walking to 10 minutes or less here. Walk out to car, commute, work indoors, drive to grocery store, drive home, watch some Hollywood trash, sleep, repeat.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I always thought it was the walkable culture in Europe that made them relatively fitter.

If youve never lived in the usa, you might not realize how most of the population is cordoned off into car dependency.

In most suburban areas you have to plan your day and drive somewhere to get some kind of outdoor exercise.

The better off at least walk their dog or hit the gym, but thats the exception.

As a result, minimal sun light, low muscle mass makes you even more susceptible to damage from stress like PUFA.

Our urban areas are also dreadful with outrageous cost of living and less than savory people milling about.

So people moved out to the suburbs and became the rootless consumers you Europeans, not without basis, stereotype Americans.

Very interesting.
i heard about the Automobile-lifestyle in the usa before.Roadmovie is a bigger genre as it is in walkable Germany it
seems.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Highly acute historical observations @Kartoffel, especially the bits of the German Military / OffzCorps before and during WW2, there are a lot of myth around about the Machinery and general acumen of the Wehrmacht, but still as you pointed out, rather paradoxically tactical initiative and creativity was encouraged among the higher brass and small platoon leaders alike.
That couldn’t make up for the dilletants in other areas and the overwhelming forces of the allies and Russians of course. Thank god I might add.

I don’t agree with you though that Germans pre~ 1900 were more authoritarian than other nations. Prussia were arguably the most progressive and „enlightened“ of the absolutistic European monarchy for the best part of the 18th century and that’s why there weren’t real revolutionary tendencies like in France not the need for heavy reactionism like in Austria, Russia or the smaller German states. Even the UK wasn’t more liberal during that time, especially while conquering the world towards their new masses of subjects.

The 1848 and Vormärz saw many liberal and democratic movements across all German states. Nationalism was the obligatory provision for liberalism back then, I would‘nt see it as a authoritarian streak back then in the historical context.

After the coming if the Kaiserreich the need for more centralistic orgabization, Identity and authority to control and keep together the new empire along with general acute chauvinism in all of Europe seemed to made them more authoritarian yes. But I think it was really the war, loosing the war and the ensuing years of poverty, feeling humbled by the victors, economic crisis, the unstable Weimar Republic, political infighting from left to right causers lot of trauma and stress that eventually made everybody more authoritarian- and enabled Hitler in the end. I don’t believe there is a historical necessity that a Hitler emerged in Germany of from Germany because Germans were predisposed to some such figure. No, Germans were humans and under certain circumstances such developments can happen to every group of humans. History isn’t predetermined but causative. One cause leads necessarily to the other, but the circumstances that generate causes are beyond control.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

good insight.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Also @Kartoffel, the claim that there isn’t a pre-1871 Germany cannot stand. The state, you might reasonably claim that, maybe. But even that is debatable, given that the German states were already organized in the Deutscher Bund. And many regions of the old holy empire were later parts of the ensuing German states, and there weren’t so much changes in population in these areas during the 18th and 19th century. What’s more, Germany of course didn’t come out of the blue sky. Germans in the german States wanted German unity in 1848 and 1871 because they felt as a nation belonging together.
As did the Italians, the polish, the Greeks, the Magyars and other people in Europe.
Would you also claim there was‘nt an Italy or a Greece or a Poland/polish nation before the dates of their respective foundations of actual states. They would not agree.

 

[LUH 3417]

I always thought it was the walkable culture in Europe that made them relatively fitter.

If youve never lived in the usa, you might not realize how most of the population is cordoned off into car dependency.

In most suburban areas you have to plan your day and drive somewhere to get some kind of outdoor exercise.

The better off at least walk their dog or hit the gym, but thats the exception.

As a result, minimal sun light, low muscle mass makes you even more susceptible to damage from stress like PUFA.

Our urban areas are also dreadful with outrageous cost of living and less than savory people milling about.

So people moved out to the suburbs and became the rootless consumers you Europeans, not without basis, stereotype Americans.

thats not by choice though. europe has medieval cities. urban planning is horrible in the US though, i agree. i biked for a long time in NYC but its also quite dangerous with a high death rate for people who commute on bicycle

 

[LeeLemonoil]

It‘s good to discuss Germany. What happens here befalls and concerns the rest of Europe in the end, provided they don’t heavily defend themselves. Righteingers gaining traction in Italy, France, Britain etc are also in part a reaction of a self-styled cultural European Hegemon.
It‘s also true that Germany is a heavily Americanized country. You see similar phenomena manifest here that ensued in the US. That’s „the West“ obviously but Germany is special in that regard being some sort of US-Dominon for decades garter the war (West-Germany).

Well, the West entirely is in decline. China will likely dominate the world in the foreseeable future. How peaty is China?

 

[LUH 3417]

It‘s good to discuss Germany. What happens here befalls and concerns the rest of Europe in the end, provided they don’t heavily defend themselves. Righteingers gaining traction in Italy, France, Britain etc are also in part a reaction of a self-styled cultural European Hegemon.
It‘s also true that Germany is a heavily Americanized country. You see similar phenomena manifest here that ensued in the US. That’s „the West“ obviously but Germany is special in that regard being some sort of US-Dominon for decades garter the war (West-Germany).

Well, the West entirely is in decline. China will likely dominate the world in the foreseeable future. How peaty is China?

i think for many chinese people, folk doctors are way more accessible. so i doubt they are dying from medical procedures or taking many pharmaceutical drugs.

 

[managing]

I skipped a few pages, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. But my German friends and I find the most striking difference between the US and Germany to be the level of stress and existential anxiety. Its much lower in Germany.

I think some relevant things have been brought up in these pages, but to me stress is the biggest differential.

 

[kyle]

@Tristan Loscha

The car you drive and mobility is a huge thing here. If you lose your license it could really upset your life.

A husky acquaintence of mine got a DUI and some other problems and lost his license. He got into road bikes so he could get to work and dropped 30 lbs.

Its that or somehow get to an area with public transit which is a handful of cities.

Without a car see your work and social life disappear. He happened to be a very socialble guy too so he could get rides etc.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

..does he had health-gains from cycling tho?

 

[kyle]

I dont see why not.

 

[postman]

View attachment 15474

There are acrylamides in all cooked carbohydrates. The more you cook them the more acrylamide there will be. Cooking fats and protein produce other carcinogens, heterocyclic amines and lipid peroxides.

 

[Kartoffel]

Highly acute historical observations @Kartoffel, especially the bits of the German Military / OffzCorps before and during WW2, there are a lot of myth around about the Machinery and general acumen of the Wehrmacht, but still as you pointed out, rather paradoxically tactical initiative and creativity was encouraged among the higher brass and small platoon leaders alike.
That couldn’t make up for the dilletants in other areas and the overwhelming forces of the allies and Russians of course. Thank god I might add.

My grandfather was an officer in the Wehrmacht, and he often talked about how commands would change during the war. In the beginning, there was almost complete freedom when it came to achieving tactical objectives. They were just told to take this or that city, or to occupy area x,y,z, and then they figured out how do best do it themselves. After 1941, Hitler increasingly started getting paranoid (maybe because he was an amphetamine addict), and wanted to have control over every minute decision. This went so far that commanders of single regiments had to call Hitler in the Wolfsschanze before they could issue an order. The freedom of the individual in the Wehrmacht was arguably the most progressive element of the German state at the time, and Hitler and his lackeys increasingly erased this Prussian tradition, and wanted to replace the independent individual with fanatical, ideologically indoctrinated Nazis. There were many instances where Waffen-SS units had to be dissolved because their fanaticism caused them to attack blindly without any rational planing.

I don’t agree with you though that Germans pre~ 1900 were more authoritarian than other nations. Prussia were arguably the most progressive and „enlightened“ of the absolutistic European monarchy for the best part of the 18th century and that’s why there weren’t real revolutionary tendencies like in France not the need for heavy reactionism like in Austria, Russia or the smaller German states. Even the UK wasn’t more liberal during that time, especially while conquering the world towards their new masses of subjects.

I also disagree. While other European countries were certainly also more authoritarian and nationalistic around 1900, the German State became a particularly authoritarian society, and I would argue there is something about the general German culture, or perhaps the German language that predisposes my people to think in authoritarian patterns. Peat initially wanted to write his thesis in Linguistics on how the German language reinforces authoritarian ways of thinking.
Prussia under Friedrich II was indeed a very progressive and enlightened state at the time, but I don't think you should think about Prussia in the 18th century as German. They certainly didn't think of themselves as Germans, nor did people in the other states. As you pointed out correctly, the idea about belonging together as Germans emerged mainly in the 19th century, and I think that this was a direct response to what the German states had experienced under Napoleon. Having been conquered and subjugated by France brought the German states together in their hatred for France. In fact, the whole idea of the German state was supported by the rivalry with France from the very beginning. So, it wasn't just a symbolic event that the German state was formally proclaimed in Versailles, the hatred for this enemy was probably stronger than any common feeling of Germanness.

I mainly said that Germany only existed since 1971 to emphasize that you can't claim that every achievement of German states in the past belongs to Germany. Just because the Prussians fought well under Friedrich doesn't mean that Germans were always good soldiers. This becomes even more apparent, if you look at how the Prussians were decisively outclassed when they fought Napoleon just a little later. As I said, it is hard to draw the line when a countrie's national identity begins. Are the Italians really Romans? was da Vinci Italian? Are the French Gauls? What about Mozart - was he German or Austrian? Are the people living in Eastprussia today Germans or Polish people?

 

[LUH 3417]

My grandfather was an officer in the Wehrmacht, and he often talked about how commands would change during the war. In the beginning, there was almost complete freedom when it came to achieving tactical objectives. They were just told to take this or that city, or to occupy area x,y,z, and then they figured out how do best do it themselves. After 1941, Hitler increasingly started getting paranoid (maybe because he was an amphetamine addict), and wanted to have control over every minute decision. This went so far that commanders of single regiments had to call Hitler in the Wolfsschanze before they could issue an order. The freedom of the individual in the Wehrmacht was arguably the most progressive element of the German state at the time, and Hitler and his lackeys increasingly erased this Prussian tradition, and wanted to replace the independent individual with fanatical, ideologically indoctrinated Nazis. There were many instances where Waffen-SS units had to be dissolved because their fanaticism caused them to attack blindly without any rational planing.



I also disagree. While other European countries were certainly also more authoritarian and nationalistic around 1900, the German State became a particularly authoritarian society, and I would argue there is something about the general German culture, or perhaps the German language that predisposes my people to think in authoritarian patterns. Peat initially wanted to write his thesis in Linguistics on how the German language reinforces authoritarian ways of thinking.
Prussia under Friedrich II was indeed a very progressive and enlightened state at the time, but I don't think you should think about Prussia in the 18th century as German. They certainly didn't think of themselves as Germans, nor did people in the other states. As you pointed out correctly, the idea about belonging together as Germans emerged mainly in the 19th century, and I think that this was a direct response to what the German states had experienced under Napoleon. Having been conquered and subjugated by France brought the German states together in their hatred for France. In fact, the whole idea of the German state was supported by the rivalry with France from the very beginning. So, it wasn't just a symbolic event that the German state was formally proclaimed in Versailles, the hatred for this enemy was probably stronger than any common feeling of Germanness.

I mainly said that Germany only existed since 1971 to emphasize that you can't claim that every achievement of German states in the past belongs to Germany. Just because the Prussians fought well under Friedrich doesn't mean that Germans were always good soldiers. This becomes even more apparent, if you look at how the Prussians were decisively outclassed when they fought Napoleon just a little later. As I said, it is hard to draw the line when a countrie's national identity begins. Are the Italians really Romans? was da Vinci Italian? Are the French Gauls? What about Mozart - was he German or Austrian? Are the people living in Eastprussia today Germans or Polish people?

Spoken German sort of sounds like bombs dropping. Do you know anything about the Sturm and Drang Movement? I find it interesting that German Romanticism preceded Nazism, with an emphasis on emotions and a rejection of rationality.