Do You Experience Negative Effects from Eggs and/or Dairy Consumption

[redsun]

my bad, I thought frozen food accumulates it. Ive had some nauseous, runny nose, headache experiences with dry aged mackerel in the past which I assumed was due to histamine yet it did not cause the skin flare up I get from beef. Eating high histamine foods like tomato, bananas didn't cause it either. I'll see what upping copper and R5P will do, I thought my B complex is giving me enough B2 but maybe leaving the cap off this one time caused sunlight to degrade it

Tomatoes don't have histamine but they have histamine liberating properties because of the glycoalkaloids in them which inhibit acetylcholine breakdown. Some do have to avoid all nightshades but usually because they have high Ach not because of histamine but they both can promote the release of the other. Nightshades especially regular consumption can cause mild cholinergic toxicity symptoms and will exacerbate histamine problems (because Ach antagonizes NE as well promotes histamine release) because the half life of some glycoalkaloids (solanine) is very long. I know in the past you used histidine which is a known chelator of copper. I would more likely suspect copper being what you need.

I dont know if you eat potatoes regularly and how much, but if you have high histamine or Ach symptoms nightshades should be removed because they really disrupt the regulatory mechanism our own body has to protect from excess Ach (and indirectly histamine). The half life of solanine is 24 hours.

 

[ursidae]

Tomatoes don't have histamine but they have histamine liberating properties because of the glycoalkaloids in them which inhibit acetylcholine breakdown. Some do have to avoid all nightshades but usually because they have high Ach not because of histamine but they both can promote the release of the other. Nightshades especially regular consumption can cause mild cholinergic toxicity symptoms and will exacerbate histamine problems (because Ach antagonizes NE as well promotes histamine release) because the half life of some glycoalkaloids (solanine) is very long. I know in the past you used histidine which is a known chelator of copper. I would more likely suspect copper being what you need.

I dont know if you eat potatoes regularly and how much, but if you have high histamine or Ach symptoms nightshades should be removed because they really disrupt the regulatory mechanism our own body has to protect from excess Ach (and indirectly histamine). The half life of solanine is 24 hours.

I started supplementing choline a while ago for liver health and because my diet was not very high in it and I very quickly lost tolerance for white potatoes which were a staple so I'm aware of the solanine issue. I'm having night shades about once a week at the moment. More than that and the nausea starts. I suspect tomatine is not as potent as solanine as potatoes have been more problematic

I haven't been supplementing histidine in quite a while actually. Do you think I could have gotten low on it again and my receptors have become overly sensitised to it?

Ive been getting a lot of copper and b2 for two days now and I just bought a beef kidney from the butchers, will report what happens to the flare up on my face from the beef I ate on sunday. Usually a few days of only white sweet potatoes and cod makes the patchy flaky redness go away

 

[redsun]

I started supplementing choline a while ago for liver health and because my diet was not very high in it and I very quickly lost tolerance for white potatoes which were a staple so I'm aware of the solanine issue. I'm having night shades about once a week at the moment. More than that and the nausea starts. I suspect tomatine is not as potent as solanine as potatoes have been more problematic

I haven't been supplementing histidine in quite a while actually. Do you think I could have gotten low on it again and my receptors have become overly sensitised to it?

Ive been getting a lot of copper and b2 for two days now and I just bought a beef kidney from the butchers, will report what happens to the flare up on my face from the beef I ate on sunday. Usually a few days of only white sweet potatoes and cod makes the patchy flaky redness go away

Yeh I know its been awhile, I just mentioned in the past you did. No I do not think you need histidine. Histidine seems to be beneficial for those who have eaten low protein diets for long periods of time. But if you eat plenty of protein, you will obtain the histidine you need from food. The issue with histidine by itself is it is a strong chelator of zinc and copper. Maybe you recall in the past when I said to take it to not take too much of it. It definitely should not be consumed much.

If more cofactors is what you need, it will take time for the body to produce more DAO enzyme if it actually works. But even if it doesn't, as I explained before copper is anti-histamine because the hormones that require it to be synthesized, norepinephrine and epinephrine, oppose histamine's effects on tissue. Generally, stronger adrenal function will prevent most allergic reactions to foods. So correcting copper status is important for inflammatory issues for more than just DAO and DAO may not be the problem for some people. It could also be low catecholamine synthesis contributing.

 

[ursidae]

Taking a freeze-dried beef kidney supplement has done wonders for my histamine issues. Notice a big difference in how I feel after eating beef (even ground). I'm also able to tolerate gelatin/collagen now whereas I used to get major head pressure when tried before.

Unfortunately, my issues with dairy (and eggs) are more in my gut so the kidney hasn't done anything for me there.

it is impressive how disgusting kidneys taste. I can't decide if liver is worse

 

[Korven]

Tomatoes don't have histamine but they have histamine liberating properties because of the glycoalkaloids in them which inhibit acetylcholine breakdown. Some do have to avoid all nightshades but usually because they have high Ach not because of histamine but they both can promote the release of the other. Nightshades especially regular consumption can cause mild cholinergic toxicity symptoms and will exacerbate histamine problems (because Ach antagonizes NE as well promotes histamine release) because the half life of some glycoalkaloids (solanine) is very long. I know in the past you used histidine which is a known chelator of copper. I would more likely suspect copper being what you need.

I dont know if you eat potatoes regularly and how much, but if you have high histamine or Ach symptoms nightshades should be removed because they really disrupt the regulatory mechanism our own body has to protect from excess Ach (and indirectly histamine). The half life of solanine is 24 hours.

This explains a lot why potatoes wreck me so hard as I subjectively feel like I already have all the high histamine/acetylcholine traits. I always regret eating taters because they put me in such weird/negative/depressed mood and in that state I often make poor decisions with negative long-term consequences. I feel kind of retarded for overanalyzing my diet so much but seriously this happens every time I eat some potatoes. The reaction is less severe now as I've gotten healthier but it's still a thing.

What are you even supposed to eat to get to 3000-3500 calories and not have some system break in the body? I can only stomach so much rice and meat. Fruit is poor quality. The only option left is pasta and bread but then I'm going to be a gluten addict.

it is impressive how disgusting kidneys taste. I can't decide if liver is worse

Isn't kidney just meat that's been marinating in urine? It must be an acquired taste.

 

[Sergey]

my bad, I thought frozen food accumulates it. Ive had some nauseous, runny nose, headache experiences with dry aged mackerel in the past which I assumed was due to histamine yet it did not cause the skin flare up I get from beef. Eating high histamine foods like tomato, bananas didn't cause it either. I'll see what upping copper and R5P will do, I thought my B complex is giving me enough B2 but maybe leaving the cap off this one time caused sunlight to degrade it

There are couple of other things to consider with regards to “histamine intolerance”.

DAO breaks down histamine in the gut, while HNMT (histamine n-methyltransferase) is responsible for the first step of histamine elimination from the body. HNMT requires methyl groups to function, thats why so called “undermethylation” often goes together with allergies, food intolerances, etc. There are lots of (good and bad) sources of information about methylation etc. Interestingly, people who don’t eat gluten can have higher risk of “undermethylation” due to absence of betaine in their diets (unless lots of beetroot and quinoa are consumed). So taking betaine could an option to improve methylation status. Choline can compensate for some of that, but there are other issues there.
There is also “main” methylation cycle via folate/B12, but working with it is much more complex, takes more time, all those folate methyl traps etc.

Second issue is related to the gut flora and its effects on histamine. Many species of bacteria and yeast can produce histamine in large amounts and foods which fuel their growth could trigger “intolerance” symptoms. In this case reaction will not be proportional to the amount of histamine originally present in food.
Different species have drastically different growth requirements. For example, some types of human derived candida albicans will only grow if growth media is supplemented with liver extract, others need more b12, b1, and so on. Red meat and organ meats are among the most nutritious substances for bacterial/fungal growth. Some non albicans species of candida (glabrata) produce lots of histamine and is resistant to most antifungals, so diet can be very important in getting rid of it.
And bacterial/fungal issue can be much more complex than just total amount of histamine produced in the gut. Many yeasts are highly allergenic and produce substances (other than histamine) which trigger histamine release in the body. Imagine fungal overgrowth in nasal sinuses. One eats nutritionally dense food rich in yeast growth factors, yeasts happily multiply and release tons of shitty stuff which triggers local (or not so local) allergic reaction - nose, throat, etc. And even “just” histamine released by yeasts in places other than gut - in nasal sinuses or mouth - could cause weird reactions, including mental ones - fatigue, disorientation, etc. due to high absorption rates and proximity to the brain.

Also, there are issues which might look like histamine related, but could be instead related to other amines, for example, tyramine. Most foods high in histamine are also high in tyramine, but their metabolic pathways are quite different - for example tyramine is metabolised by MAO, not DAO. Interestingly, its said that tyramine does not cross blood brain barrier and its effects are only peripheral. However I remember reading an article which said that negative reaction to tyramine is the most accurate diagnostic test for depression - people with depression react negatively to tyramine even when depression is in remission. Maybe it has something to do with MAO activity, I don’t know.

 

[InChristAlone]

This explains a lot why potatoes wreck me so hard as I subjectively feel like I already have all the high histamine/acetylcholine traits. I always regret eating taters because they put me in such weird/negative/depressed mood and in that state I often make poor decisions with negative long-term consequences. I feel kind of retarded for overanalyzing my diet so much but seriously this happens every time I eat some potatoes. The reaction is less severe now as I've gotten healthier but it's still a thing.

What are you even supposed to eat to get to 3000-3500 calories and not have some system break in the body? I can only stomach so much rice and meat. Fruit is poor quality. The only option left is pasta and bread but then I'm going to be a gluten addict.



Isn't kidney just meat that's been marinating in urine? It must be an acquired taste.

Try loading up the potatoes with butter, sour cream and cheese. I think people are just too insulin sensitive for such an insulin releasing starch. That can account for a lot of negative moods if it makes your blood sugar go wonky. I can eat these potatoes and have lots of energy and feel warm with high temps. But I figured out a bowl of pasta with a pat of butter and a small amount of cheese leaves me feeling cold and depressed. Most people are too afraid of fat.

 

[redsun]

This explains a lot why potatoes wreck me so hard as I subjectively feel like I already have all the high histamine/acetylcholine traits. I always regret eating taters because they put me in such weird/negative/depressed mood and in that state I often make poor decisions with negative long-term consequences. I feel kind of retarded for overanalyzing my diet so much but seriously this happens every time I eat some potatoes. The reaction is less severe now as I've gotten healthier but it's still a thing.

What are you even supposed to eat to get to 3000-3500 calories and not have some system break in the body? I can only stomach so much rice and meat. Fruit is poor quality. The only option left is pasta and bread but then I'm going to be a gluten addict.



Isn't kidney just meat that's been marinating in urine? It must be an acquired taste.

But you werent wrong though, you instinctively made the connection. You should avoid all nightshades generally. If you have a small serving rarely it shouldnt be too bad. The issue becomes regular consumption because the half life of solanine is quite long (24 hours). So levels can build up if you consume them frequently. Yams and sweet potatoes are not nightshades so do not contain toxic glycoalkaloids like solanine. Those are good to include in your diet.

If you have no digestive problems with white flour products than I would suggest you put that in the roster of food options. Whole wheat is an issue because of the high amounts of manganese, which is also bad for this neurochemistry. So if you consume manganese rich foods currently like pineapple I would stop this. Thankfully there are plenty of fruits which are low in manganese but still provide other things like Vitamin C which is important if you have high histamine/acetylcholine. Some fruits that are supposed to be histamine releasers should still be trialed to see if they can be consumed. Not everyone with histamine issues reacts to the same things.


I think this list is pretty good:

Low Histamine Diet | Full Histamine Intolerance Foods List

See 187 foods to eat and avoid on a low histamine diet. Start improving histamine intolerance symptoms in just 2 weeks using this low histamine foods list.

www.factvsfitness.com

 

[aniciete]

But you werent wrong though, you instinctively made the connection. You should avoid all nightshades generally. If you have a small serving rarely it shouldnt be too bad. The issue becomes regular consumption because the half life of solanine is quite long (24 hours). So levels can build up if you consume them frequently. Yams and sweet potatoes are not nightshades so do not contain toxic glycoalkaloids like solanine. Those are good to include in your diet.

If you have no digestive problems with white flour products than I would suggest you put that in the roster of food options. Whole wheat is an issue because of the high amounts of manganese, which is also bad for this neurochemistry. So if you consume manganese rich foods currently like pineapple I would stop this. Thankfully there are plenty of fruits which are low in manganese but still provide other things like Vitamin C which is important if you have high histamine/acetylcholine. Some fruits that are supposed to be histamine releasers should still be trialed to see if they can be consumed. Not everyone with histamine issues reacts to the same things.


I think this list is pretty good:

Low Histamine Diet | Full Histamine Intolerance Foods List

See 187 foods to eat and avoid on a low histamine diet. Start improving histamine intolerance symptoms in just 2 weeks using this low histamine foods list.

www.factvsfitness.com

If high histamine/acetylcholine, could a lot of daily manganese make symptoms worse? I consumed lots of maple syrup for around 6 months and now have been consuming a pineapple a day. How much manganese is needed since there is no RDA?

 

[redsun]

If high histamine/acetylcholine, could a lot of daily manganese make symptoms worse? I consumed lots of maple syrup for around 6 months and now have been consuming a pineapple a day. How much manganese is needed since there is no RDA?

Yes this is exactly what I meant. High consumption of manganese will absolutely worsen symptoms. Avoiding manganese rich foods while getting some from low manganese starches and fruits should get you less than 4mg easily. You need to avoid foods or seriously limit foods high in manganese. No need to avoid all manganese.

 

[aniciete]

Yes this is exactly what I meant. High consumption of manganese will absolutely worsen symptoms. Avoiding manganese rich foods while getting some from low manganese starches and fruits should get you less than 4mg easily. You need to avoid foods or seriously limit foods high in manganese. No need to avoid all manganese.

Oh wow, thank you. Maybe consuming lots of manganese paired with eggs, b vitamins and vitamins e over time has drastically increased my histamine/acetylcholine levels because it wasn’t this bad a couple months ago. I’ll cut out the pineapple and replace us with another tropical fruit with lower levels.

 

[redsun]

Oh wow, thank you. Maybe consuming lots of manganese paired with eggs, b vitamins and vitamins e over time has drastically increased my histamine/acetylcholine levels because it wasn’t this bad a couple months ago. I’ll cut out the pineapple and replace us with another tropical fruit with lower levels.

B-vitamins/vitamin E and eggs will just increase the synthesis of acetycholine. They do not leave you with permanently high Ach levels. If you stop them, the rate of synthesis of Ach should drop a lot to a more "normal" level. At least, it would put you back to how it was before you took them.

 

[aniciete]

B-vitamins/vitamin E and eggs will just increase the synthesis of acetycholine. They do not leave you with permanently high Ach levels. If you stop them, the rate of synthesis of Ach should drop a lot to a more "normal" level. At least, it would put you back to how it was before you took them.

That makes sense because i stopped all supplements around a month ago and have noticed some changes. But the high manganese intake is probably whats been holding me back from noticing more improvements.

 

[redsun]

That makes sense because i stopped all supplements around a month ago and have noticed some changes. But the high manganese intake is probably whats been holding me back from noticing more improvements.

Yeh that'll definitely do it. A whole pineapple daily is quite a lot of manganese. Let us know how things change from stopping.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeh that'll definitely do it. A whole pineapple daily is quite a lot of manganese. Let us know how things change from stopping.

You said manganese can make you go nuts, do you think that could be a reason Travis killed himself? He ate a lot of pineapple right?

 

[redsun]

You said manganese can make you go nuts, do you think that could be a reason Travis killed himself? He ate a lot of pineapple right?

If he also consumed other high manganese foods alongside large amounts of pineapple than this can eventually cause manganese madness. Overtime this will increase oxidative stress and can lead to symptoms that can directly or indirectly increase suicide risk such as compulsive behavior, emotional lability, hallucinations, psychosis. But I don't really know what he ate. I just recall a lot of plant foods and not a lot of animal foods. But usually there is some sort of environmental exposure or inhaled exposure (gas fumes, e-cigs, etc) needed. The upper limit of manganese is 11mg.

 

[InChristAlone]

If he also consumed other high manganese foods alongside large amounts of pineapple than this can eventually cause manganese madness. Overtime this will increase oxidative stress and can lead to symptoms that can directly or indirectly increase suicide risk such as compulsive behavior, emotional lability, hallucinations, psychosis. But I don't really know what he ate. I just recall a lot of plant foods and not a lot of animal foods. But usually there is some sort of environmental exposure or inhaled exposure (gas fumes, e-cigs, etc) needed. The upper limit of manganese is 11mg.

Doesn't sound fun!! thanks for your reply.

 

[aniciete]

Yeh that'll definitely do it. A whole pineapple daily is quite a lot of manganese. Let us know how things change from stopping.

Will do ? What do you think of bananas? They seem like a good choice as long as they are ripe.

 

[redsun]

Will do ? What do you think of bananas? They seem like a good choice as long as they are ripe.

I think they are a good option.

 

[Apple]

This explains a lot why potatoes wreck me so hard as I subjectively feel like I already have all the high histamine/acetylcholine traits. I always regret eating taters because they put me in such weird/negative/depressed mood and in that state I often make poor decisions with negative long-term consequences. I feel kind of retarded for overanalyzing my diet so much but seriously this happens every time I eat some potatoes. The reaction is less severe now as I've gotten healthier but it's still a thing.

What are you even supposed to eat to get to 3000-3500 calories and not have some system break in the body? I can only stomach so much rice and meat. Fruit is poor quality. The only option left is pasta and bread but then I'm going to be a gluten addict.



Isn't kidney just meat that's been marinating in urine? It must be an acquired taste.

It is possible to get used to any food, even poison .
Many people are pushing themselves to to adapt to digesting milk, for some people on this forum it took years...Some people throw up when when they first reintroduce milk . But you can do the same with potatoes, grains , gluten, any stuff...The less you eat gluten or potatoes the less you'll be able digest it.
RP: "It takes a few days for the intestine to change its rhythm of peristalsis, and a couple of weeks for the enzymes to adjust to a change of foods."